CPL General

[Ansem]

Another point of comparison between USL and CPL. 

CPL TV contract is obviously more lucrative to the league and NOT split by 47 teams +

 

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Another point of comparison between USL and CPL. 

CPL TV contract is obviously more lucrative to the league and NOT split by 47 teams +

 

I mean, whatever money comes from the Onesoccer deal isn't split between 47 teams, sure.  But I think if the CPL was getting that much actual cash from the deal (compared to services) then the CPL wouldn't be as concerned as they are about the finances this season.  So it's entirely possible that the ESPN deal is similar to the Onesoccer deal: ESPN picks up the cost of broadcast, and in exchange gives the league a token amount of money (though split much more) and a platform to show their games.  And ESPN is definitely a bigger platform than Onesoccer.

[Bison44]

So does this mean no more free USL games on youtube?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[CanadaFan123]

15 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

 

Kind of cool for CPL teams in that they get to treat their highest profile matches like the playoffs in that they will be the sole focus.  

[Watchmen]

9 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Kind of cool for CPL teams in that they get to treat their highest profile matches like the playoffs in that they will be the sole focus.  

Well, no.  There's nothing saying the MLS teams won't participate.  This is only a discussion on the timeline of when a Voyagers Cup might take place.

[Cheeta]

If it does turn into a stand-alone tourney that is very cool.  Is that possible with the MLS is Back tourney?  Bloody well hope so.  They'll be done in August no?  That leaves lots of time and all the pro teams would certainly be in their best form by that point for a fall competition. 

V's Cup tourney to see out the 2020 playing season would be wicked fun.  Could go a long way to saving something of the footie season in this country.  Knock out tournies are always exciting, especially if they involve inter-league fixtures.   

Got to make this work somehow. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

It's possible that it will run parallel in timing terms with the US Open Cup, which would make it easy for MLS participation.

[Kent]

4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

It's possible that it will run parallel in timing terms with the US Open Cup, which would make it easy for MLS participation.

This would make the most sense. I hope USSF and CSA are talking together to make this happen. My biggest fear about the viability of the Voyageurs Cup has been cross border travel. The Orlando tournament isn't the entirety of MLS's hopes/plans, so if the MLS teams are playing games in the USA, they would potentially  have problems with the tournament if it stops and starts. Cross the border into Canada, quarantine for 2 weeks, play a game or two in the Voyageurs Cup, go back across the border to the USA, quarantine for a couple weeks, play a game or two in MLS. It's not feasible if we still have travel restrictions like that imposed. Doing it all at once would be the best option.

[Ansem]

On 6/8/2020 at 10:09 PM, Watchmen said:

But I think if the CPL was getting that much actual cash from the deal (compared to services) then the CPL wouldn't be as concerned as they are about the finances this season. 

To be fair, no revenues would hurt any leagues starting in Year 1. If MLS was hit with COVID situation back in 1998-1999, most likely they would have closed shop. Loan or not, the league will go on

On 6/8/2020 at 10:09 PM, Watchmen said:

So it's entirely possible that the ESPN deal is similar to the Onesoccer deal: ESPN picks up the cost of broadcast, and in exchange gives the league a token amount of money (though split much more) and a platform to show their games.  And ESPN is definitely a bigger platform than Onesoccer.

ESPN is a bigger plateform and USL are lucky that they have a deal with them, I still remember the years when MLS didn't exist in ESPN's eyes. My bottom line is CPL has a more lucrative TV contract than USL which long term is a huge advantage over USL. If they keep this up and their trajectory in growth and revenues increases, I wouldn't be surprised that CPL will actually widen the gap with USL.*

*No i don't mean Liga MX or MLS, I'm talking growing to the point of having quality teams that could rival Costa Rica or Honduras team and make CPL solid competitors in CL or CCL

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

To be fair, no revenues would hurt any leagues starting in Year 1. If MLS was hit with COVID situation back in 1998-1999, most likely they would have closed shop. Loan or not, the league will go on

ESPN is a bigger plateform and USL are lucky that they have a deal with them, I still remember the years when MLS didn't exist in ESPN's eyes. My bottom line is CPL has a more lucrative TV contract than USL which long term is a huge advantage over USL. If they keep this up and their trajectory in growth and revenues increases, I wouldn't be surprised that CPL will actually widen the gap with USL.*

*No i don't mean Liga MX or MLS, I'm talking growing to the point of having quality teams that could rival Costa Rica or Honduras team and make CPL solid competitors in CL or CCL

I hope CPL doesn't widen the gap with USL! The only objective measure in terms of level of play is the games that the two leagues have played against each other. If you don't recall, that would be the Ottawa Fury (USL) knocking out HFX Wanderers (CPL). Obviously that is an incredibly small sample size, but I don't think we get to say that CPL has a non-negligible step up on USL at this point. I guess you could point to the MLS scalp that CPL has, but that's about it.

[Ansem]

21 minutes ago, Kent said:

I hope CPL doesn't widen the gap with USL!

Why not? We should strive to be the best we can be and the league has all the tools to achieve that. No need for us to be "stereo-typically nice" about it. We should go big or more realistically, dream big and work our way up or go home. CPL is a D1 that should aim to widen the gap with the US D2 while building up to be competitive with the other D1 in the continent

21 minutes ago, Kent said:

The only objective measure in terms of level of play is the games that the two leagues have played against each other. If you don't recall, that would be the Ottawa Fury (USL) knocking out HFX Wanderers (CPL). Obviously that is an incredibly small sample size, but I don't think we get to say that CPL has a non-negligible step up on USL at this point. I guess you could point to the MLS scalp that CPL has, but that's about it.

Not going to argue with your point but there was 2 CPL last year - Forge and Cavalry, then the rest...York 9 being better than the rest to some extend. I think that Forge and Cavalry is the level where the league wants to be this early in their history and the off season moves looks like teams are trying to play at that level.

Halifax was "ok" although plagued by injuries but Ottawa got destroyed by TFC B team while Cavalry and York 9 pushed Vancouver and Montreal who played their best players with one elimination of an MLS team. Yes it's a small sample but we shouldn't minimize what CPL top teams have done. Heck Forge surprised everyone in CONCACAF League.

USL has great talent, don't get me wrong, but their setup plays against them. The league is too big and talent gets diluted and you see very inconsistent performances. They should go to pro/rel with USL and limit the number of teams in Championship and they could absolutely become "The Championship" of CONCACAF

Until they do and keep procrastinate on it, I see CPL easily widening the gap, especially with Canadians no longer being domestic in USL Championship

Edited June 11, 2020 by Ansem

[Bison44]

Hasnt a USL squad beat an MLS team in US cup games?? If not, thats surprising as the USL squads run the gambit from very bad to damn near bottom feeder MLS quality.  And any time the bigger club doesnt take it seriously...its prime upset time.  

[Ansem]

3 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Hasnt a USL squad beat an MLS team in US cup games?? If not, thats surprising as the USL squads run the gambit from very bad to damn near bottom feeder MLS quality.  And any time the bigger club doesnt take it seriously...its prime upset time.  

1-New Mexico, St.Louis in 2019

2-Louisville, Nashville, Sacramento in 2018

There was Cincinnati that did it too

My analysis is that outside of New Mexico, we're talking clubs with MLS ambition (Cincinnati having moved, Nashville soon, Sacramento?) and tend to spend more on talent than the rest to show MLS that they belong. Theses clubs aren't truly representative of USL as a whole nor did they accomplish such feat in their inaugural year.

We can debate whether or not some of those upsets were at the expand of MLS teams taking the competition seriously or not but we all know that Vancouver and Montreal took it very seriously against CPL while TFC knew their B team could contain Ottawa.

All I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised that CPL widens the gap unless USL implements the reforms they've planned for.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Ansem

[Kent]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

1-New Mexico, St.Louis in 2019

2-Louisville, Nashville, Sacramento in 2018

There was Cincinnati that did it too

My analysis is that outside of New Mexico, we're talking clubs with MLS ambition (Cincinnati having moved, Nashville soon, Sacramento?) and tend to spend more on talent than the rest to show MLS that they belong. Theses clubs aren't truly representative of USL as a whole nor did they accomplish such feat in their inaugural year.

We can debate whether or not some of those upsets were at the expand of MLS teams taking the competition seriously or not but we all know that Vancouver and Montreal took it very seriously against CPL while TFC knew their B team could contain Ottawa.

All I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised that CPL widens the gap unless USL implements the reforms they've planned for.

I forgot to finish my thought about not widening the gap. The point I meant to make is that due to Ottawa’s win over HFX last year, the CPL is on the wrong side of the gap, so a widening of it would mean CPL is falling farther behind. The gap (if one exist) must be closed first.

And I have to point out that you wanted to throw out HFX’s performance because the top 2 or 3 teams (less than half the league) I guess is more indicative of the quality of the league, but you also want to throw out the top performances from USL because their performance isn’t indicative of the quality of their league? I’m sorry, but that is only your bias determining what reinforces your views/hopes.

Dont get me wrong, I desperately want the CPL to leave the USL in the dust, and at the moment I don’t think there is much evidence to separate them either way, but I want to celebrate the milestones the league hits as it goes, instead of just telling myself it is already there.

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

We can debate whether or not some of those upsets were at the expand of MLS teams taking the competition seriously or not but we all know that Vancouver and Montreal took it very seriously against CPL while TFC knew their B team could contain Ottawa.

I would suggest that the Vancouver squad very definitely did not take it seriously, as they put out two of their more pathetic performances of the year, and given how their year went that's saying something.

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

I forgot to finish my thought about not widening the gap. The point I meant to make is that due to Ottawa’s win over HFX last year, the CPL is on the wrong side of the gap, so a widening of it would mean CPL is falling farther behind. The gap (if one exist) must be closed first.

My counter to that would be that using Ottawa Fury own words, that was the best team they ever had which eventually led them to the USL playoffs. They barely got past HFX(5-4) who finished last in 2019 plagued with injures and got crushed by TFC B team who made it look like child's play over both legs.

Cavalry and Forge aside, York9 pushed the reigning VCup champions to the limit and lost by 1 goal (2-3) and surprisingly, kept the tempo and didn't look out of place.

If I compare York9 performance with Ottawa, York played better football. Cavalry did the same to Montreal.

How about Forge getting a win over Olimpia at home when Montreal lost at Olympic Stadium?

But agreed, this is a small sample

2 hours ago, Kent said:

And I have to point out that you wanted to throw out HFX’s performance because the top 2 or 3 teams (less than half the league) I guess is more indicative of the quality of the league, but you also want to throw out the top performances from USL because their performance isn’t indicative of the quality of their league? I’m sorry, but that is only your bias determining what reinforces your views/hopes.

Fair observation although I do think that clubs with MLS aspirations do spend more on talent with the end game of joining MLS, that's not exactly a secret either. Is it coincidence that the teams causing upsets are the one's on the cusp of joining/joined MLS? I mean, St.Louis, Sacramento, Nashville and Cincinnati recently all joined/will join or are strong candidates. New Mexico would be your most recent unrelated case, otherwise, there's a pattern. That's a fair observation.

Granted I haven't watch those games which is why I put it out there that it was possible those MLS teams might have not been prioritizing the Cup.

However, the best of USL aren't the majority of the league either hence my comparision between how York and Fury played. 

2 hours ago, Kent said:

Dont get me wrong, I desperately want the CPL to leave the USL in the dust, and at the moment I don’t think there is much evidence to separate them either way, but I want to celebrate the milestones the league hits as it goes, instead of just telling myself it is already there.

My opinion is that CPL played better football as the season went on. I'm confident that we will widen the gap if 2019 Cavalry/Forge is where the other 6 are aiming for in terms of quality. 

I did say that a reformed USL would definately be a very strong league with pro/rel while limiting the number of teams. There's way too many teams now and the talent is too diluted which may lead to stagnation in my opinion. That's why I think is they don't reform, CPL may very well widen the gap on the right side.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Ansem

[Ansem]

56 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I would suggest that the Vancouver squad very definitely did not take it seriously, as they put out two of their more pathetic performances of the year, and given how their year went that's saying something.

Not according to Dos Santos but over 2 legs, Cavalry was simply the better team.

[Watchmen]

11 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Not according to Dos Santos but over 2 legs, Cavalry was simply the better team.

Oh, Dos Santos fielded his best side.  And I'm not saying Cavalry wasn't the better team over the two games.  I'm saying the players on the Whitecaps were pathetic and didn't give a shit, and put in two absolutely embarrassing performances.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

 

[T_Bison]

13 hours ago, Ansem said:

CPL played better football as the season went on. I'm confident that we will widen the gap if 2019 Cavalry/Forge is where the other 6 are aiming for in terms of quality. 

I would say that most teams upgraded significantly and will be at least Cavalry/Forge 2019 quality. Pacific gained some good pieces, Cavalry reloaded, Valour revamped their lineup and have a ton of experience, York is my pick to win 2020, Ottawa has Madrid to lean on and HFX got better as well. The only concerns are FCE & Forge. I don't think they kept up.

I'm really interested to see how the the CPL holds up in the Concacaf league & Voyageurs Cup the next few years