CPL General

[MtlMario]

On 4/30/2020 at 1:25 PM, SpursFlu said:

 

I was personally hoping the CFL went bankrupt and was bought by the NFL and then switched to a 4 down league. But that's just my twisted mind

What did the CFL ever do to you that you want it to fold? Can't you just keep watching your American football league and leave our Canadian football league alone? I just like to know why so many (or some) NFL supporters here in Canada have to sh*t on our league ( which I find more exiting btw)?

Edited May 1, 2020 by MtlMario

[MrsC]

55 minutes ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

The V's used to be a collective,  autonomous voice.   Everyone contributed. Anyone who was around back then can testify to that.  

Do you have a say now  ?  Are you considered a member ?  How about me  ?  I'm an original, but am I a member  ?

Right now, Jamie is the Voyageurs.  Nobody else is a Voyageur.  He has incorporated as a non-profit and listed himself as the Director/sole member.   That is a legal fact.  

The V's have no site.  There is no platform for communication and nobody has any say.   Back in the day everything was open and transparent.  Everyone had a say.  Now there is nothing transparent.  There is no accountability.

The only objective now, is to get into bed with the CSA and get their money.

The V forum (and any semblance of what the Voyageurs were) was sacrificed to make things more appealing to the CSA.  Don't kid yourself, they call the shots now.  

https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDtls.html?corpId=11034014&V_TOKEN=1588244631826&crpNm=Voyageurs&crpNmbr=&bsNmbr=

The Voyageurs are bordering on becoming nothing more than a marketing  gimmick to sell scarves and occasional tickets to games.  All with no transparency.  That is literally what we have become.  You aren't a Voyageur and neither am I, and nobody is listening, because our platform for communication and transparency has been removed.

Anyone want to buy a scarf ?

And for the record, I love all things CPL.  I have multiple season tickets.  Anyone following this thread knows this was all brought up in a spontaneous fashion.  But I don't like the V content on the CPL forum.  The problem is, again, we have no forum.  I have requested from our Administrator/Director, to have a subforum for Voyageurs content, on this CSN site.  My request was denied.    

Dwayne we are friends, but I couldn't disagree with you more on these posts. The Voyageurs has evolved significantly since you were running the organization.  I love having the forum for people to communicate, but it no longer holds the importance it once did.  There are many places we meet and connect on social media, as well as in person.  If the message board is all the Voyageurs is to you, then you are missing out on a lot.

I am a proud Voyageur, and I chat with fellow Voyageurs almost daily. Sometimes in the forum, but usually in other places.  That's a choice I make, not because I have issues with how the forum is run, but because if feels more convenient to connect on other social platforms.  Message boards aren’t dead, but they are not what they used to be, when there are many other ways to connect.

I’ve been part of so many Voyageurs activities in the last couple of years, from viewing parties to live games (in several cities).  I’m a bit dismayed that you could say the Voyageurs are dead.  It is very much alive.

For those that think Jamie is running the show alone, this is misguided.  It’s true that Jamie has put in an unbelievable amount of personal time and money into this, but he is not acting alone.  There are Voyageurs all across the country helping Jamie promote the Voyageurs regionally, offering advice, and opinions.  Lending a hand on game day, and leading up to game day.  And there are several very active Voyageurs who have worked closely with Jamie with the incorporation.

And saying Jamie is the only Voyageur because he is the only name on the not-for profit, makes no sense.  There are only 4 of us on the RRR not for profit, but we aren’t the only members.

I agree that Doug shouldn’t have been banned.  But the tizzy this has devolved into is a bit incomprehensible.  If you want to call for more transparency fine. That is a fair comment.  But to suggest the Voyageurs are nothing, is quite frankly offensive to all of the active members of the Voyageurs, putting in a lot of hard work, time and passion. 

[Winnipeg Fury]

1 hour ago, MrsC said:

Dwayne we are friends, but I couldn't disagree with you more on these posts. The Voyageurs has evolved significantly since you were running the organization.  I love having the forum for people to communicate, but it no longer holds the importance it once did.  There are many places we meet and connect on social media, as well as in person.  If the message board is all the Voyageurs is to you, then you are missing out on a lot.

I am a proud Voyageur, and I chat with fellow Voyageurs almost daily. Sometimes in the forum, but usually in other places.  That's a choice I make, not because I have issues with how the forum is run, but because if feels more convenient to connect on other social platforms.  Message boards aren’t dead, but they are not what they used to be, when there are many other ways to connect.

I’ve been part of so many Voyageurs activities in the last couple of years, from viewing parties to live games (in several cities).  I’m a bit dismayed that you could say the Voyageurs are dead.  It is very much alive.

For those that think Jamie is running the show alone, this is misguided.  It’s true that Jamie has put in an unbelievable amount of personal time and money into this, but he is not acting alone.  There are Voyageurs all across the country helping Jamie promote the Voyageurs regionally, offering advice, and opinions.  Lending a hand on game day, and leading up to game day.  And there are several very active Voyageurs who have worked closely with Jamie with the incorporation.

And saying Jamie is the only Voyageur because he is the only name on the not-for profit, makes no sense.  There are only 4 of us on the RRR not for profit, but we aren’t the only members.

I agree that Doug shouldn’t have been banned.  But the tizzy this has devolved into is a bit incomprehensible.  If you want to call for more transparency fine. That is a fair comment.  But to suggest the Voyageurs are nothing, is quite frankly offensive to all of the active members of the Voyageurs, putting in a lot of hard work, time and passion. 

 

I don't think I have said anything that anyone should find offensive.  There are lots of people across this country working hard to promote the game, inside the Voyageurs and outside the Voyageurs, both past and present.  Myself included.

I have asked questions, and been told repeatedly that nothing is being answered, because this isn't the Voyageurs forum.  I thought I found a solution in requesting,  a sub-forum, but was denied.  I have tried other means,.....still nothing.

You are offended by me saying the Voyageurs are 'nothing'........I said 'the Voyageurs are bordering on becoming nothing.'  I stand by those comments, because without proper transparency,  there is nothing.  And I can't see how that would offend anyone, especially anyone who is investing time and energy into any group.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rob.notenboom]

1 hour ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

 

I don't think I have said anything that anyone should find offensive.  There are lots of people across this country working hard to promote the game, inside the Voyageurs and outside the Voyageurs, both past and present.  Myself included.

I have asked questions, and been told repeatedly that nothing is being answered, because this isn't the Voyageurs forum.  I thought I found a solution in requesting,  a sub-forum, but was denied.  I have tried other means,.....still nothing.

You are offended by me saying the Voyageurs are 'nothing'........I said 'the Voyageurs are bordering on becoming nothing.'  I stand by those comments, because without proper transparency,  there is nothing.  And I can't see how that would offend anyone, especially anyone who is investing time and energy into any group.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well I find this quote from you offensive.

The only objective now, is to get into bed with the CSA and get their money.

The V forum (and any semblance of what the Voyageurs were) was sacrificed to make things more appealing to the CSA.  Don't kid yourself, they call the shots now.  

Dwayne, let me be the second friend of yours to let you know that you’re very off-base with much of what you’ve said. The forum has not been representative of nor particularly useful to the Vs for quite a long time. Most of the Vs I know (and that includes very many people who are very active in the Vs ... selling tickets, promoting games with their friends, organizing tifos/events/watch parties) either never use the forum or rarely use it. In many cases they got sick of the garbage on here and found better outlets for their time, effort, and passion ... I’d count myself in that number ... I’m no less interested in Canadian soccer now, but I’m not sure I’ve made three posts on the forum in a year. 
 

Additionally,  the way you’re attacking Jamie is lowering my opinion of you. I doubt you understand because you don’t know the details, but he has suffered several setbacks over the last several years and this has affected what he’s been able to accomplish (I’m not going to get into the details as I’m not sure he’d appreciate it). But I can tell without hyperbole that no one has put as much sweat, blood, tears, effort, and (way too much of his own) money into the Vs. 
 

I would agree that communication, organization, and transparency are issues with the Vs that need to be dealt with (and along with that greater involvement and much clearer structure). I’m not sure how that’s to come about, but I’m willing to help out. 

But using this forum as the point of organizing all that is simply not going to work. And raging about things on this forum is not going to accomplish much either, except maybe getting told by your friends that you should reconsider your approach lest you be accused of losing the plot. 😁

 

 

[Lofty]

Oh dear. Everybody is offended.

I wonder if they'd be offended if every post they had ever made and every thread they had ever created over a period of 12 years had been arbitrarily and summarily deleted? But I'm not offended. Just sad. Sad that what used to be a thriving forum has degenerated to such a level where this can happen and good people are leaving in droves because of the toxic behaviour of many. Is this not a stain on the current "leadership"?

Just because you are putting in a lot of time and money does not mean you are doing a good job and if you are doing a poor job it does not mean you should not be called out on it

Without a central platform to call "home", where do the members of The Voyageurs Supporters Group go to discuss something and possibly vote on it? It is all well and good to say "Oh, so and so and I talk on Facebook" but that is a PRIVATE conversation, not one that everybody can join. And Facebook is not suited to the many and varied topics that are discussed via threads on a forum.

It is a fair point that there are still people who call themselves Voyageurs organizing events. In that respect the Voyageurs SG is not dead. But what Dwayne really meant is that The Voyageurs as a Democratic entity where everybody has an equal voice is dead. And without a central platform where those voices can be heard, he is 100% correct.

As for this whole Voyageurs Corporation that seeks to present itself as The Voyageurs Supporters Group, even though virtually NONE of the people who form that group have any connection whatsoever with the Corporation and nor has the Corporation reached out to try to create one, don't get me started!

The Voyageurs as a democratic organization where the members control the activities and everybody has a voice is definitely dead. And THAT is extremely offensive.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Lofty
typo

[Lofty]

48 minutes ago, rob.notenboom said:

...

Additionally,  the way you’re attacking Jamie is lowering my opinion of you. I doubt you understand because you don’t know the details, but he has suffered several setbacks over the last several years and this has affected what he’s been able to accomplish (I’m not going to get into the details as I’m not sure he’d appreciate it). But I can tell without hyperbole that no one has put as much sweat, blood, tears, effort, and (way too much of his own) money into the Vs. 

...

But using this forum as the point of organizing all that is simply not going to work. And raging about things on this forum is not going to accomplish much either, except maybe getting told by your friends that you should reconsider your approach lest you be accused of losing the plot. 😁

 

Well Rob, I could say what I think of you for making ad hominem attacks instead of sticking to debating the issues raised but that wouldn't be very helpful, would it?

By the way, a caustic comment with a smiley face is still a caustic comment.

[nfitz]

6 hours ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

The V's have no site.

This is not true - see https://www.thevoyageurs.org/
 

6 hours ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

There is no platform for communication ...

This is also not true. Not only is there still a forum - https://www.thevoyageurs.org/forums/ - but you still have an account there - https://www.thevoyageurs.org/profile/145-winnipeg-fury/

There's also the well-used Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/TheVoyageurs/
 

6 hours ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

The only objective now, is to get into bed with the CSA and get their money.

Given that everything else you've said is false - I can only assume that this is too.
 

1 hour ago, Lofty said:

I wonder if they'd be offended if every post they had ever made and every thread they had ever created over a period of 12 years  ...  The Voyageurs as a democratic organization where the members control the activities and everybody has a voice is definitely dead. And THAT is extremely offensive.

There's no indication on why your posts were removed, after you were criticized for making unnecessarily provocative comments that had nothing to do with football. But also, it has nothing to do with The Voyageurs.

Given how much that's being said here is not true - perhaps everyone should just stop this off-topic stuff, and simply discuss the CPL.

Edited May 1, 2020 by nfitz

[Winnipeg Fury]

 

delete

Edited May 2, 2020 by Winnipeg Fury

[nfitz]

1 minute ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

I am asking appropriate questions and being met with complete stonewalling.

Your asking these questions in thread about the CPL, in a subforum about that league, that not even all the national team followers all follow - let alone many other Voyageurs ... which has no relationship with the CPL.

And in these posts you say things that are completely untrue, while slandering other Canadian supporters.

It's not appropriate. Stop.

[rob.notenboom]

47 minutes ago, Lofty said:

Well Rob, I could say what I think of you for making ad hominem attacks instead of sticking to debating the issues raised but that wouldn't be very helpful, would it?

By the way, a caustic comment with a smiley face is still a caustic comment.

Hmm. Let me think on that. It wasn’t my intention to make an ad hominem statement and the purpose of the smiley face would be the same as if I was sitting down with you and Dwayne right now ... that sometimes when you think someone is in the wrong, it still makes sense to tell them gently. 
 

I certainly don’t disagree that the Vs could use some improvements. And honestly, I’ve been advocating for those for quite some time, just not on this forum.

[rob.notenboom]

11 minutes ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

 

  @rob.notenboom  I have had many conversations with people.  But I have no interest in mud slinging.  I don't think you want me to post any of it.   I have nothing personal against Jamie.  Do you have any idea who put Jamie in this position ?

Is it because I posted the corporate information ?  That is public knowledge.  Anyone can access any of it.  The fact that our information is listed as 'overdue' according to the gov't, is not me launching a personal attack.  Far from it !  But it should be a concern to all Voyageurs.  Like much of what is happening here., (your list of communication, organization, transparency, greater involvement and clear structure are a good starting point) 

I am asking appropriate questions and being met with complete stonewalling.   I have asked questions both on the forum and off forum, trying my best to work out respectful solutions.  This communication has been all one-way.  

I have requested a V subforum on here, but of course that was denied.  

You don't post here any more, I'm not surprised.  Everyone is sick of the bs.  The moderators don't even know who are moderators or who has access....moderators saying they have been asking to be deleted for months....people getting completely scrubbed and no answers given or semblance of accountability.  We sacrificed our forum, which was the heart of this community for years, to come here.  Nothing was supposed to change.   Then we ask questions and are treated like mindless cattle, being told questions can't be answered, 'because it's not the V forum.'  What a joke !  Small surprise people are leaving.

My friends are not reaching out to me on this forum.  They have sent pm's/called.  

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps I misconstrued, but you seemed more than a little upset by what you’ve found out. And it seemed to me at least that this led to you overreacting, including saying some things that were pretty accusing. 
 

Am I off base with that interpretation?

 

I certainly wasn’t intending on being insulting. So apologies if that’s how it came across. 

[Winnipeg Fury]

 

delete

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Winnipeg Fury

[Lofty]

14 minutes ago, nfitz said:

This is not true - see https://www.thevoyageurs.org/
 

This is also not true. Not only is there still a forum - https://www.thevoyageurs.org/forums/ - but you still have an account there - https://www.thevoyageurs.org/profile/145-winnipeg-fury/

This is extremely disingenuous. You know very well that nobody visits that site anymore because all the football content was moved here!

19 minutes ago, nfitz said:

There's also the well-used Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/TheVoyageurs/

Many people do not use facebook. If you asked a bunch of random Vs to identify the central place where they could go to discuss all things Voyageurs, how many would say "facebook"?

25 minutes ago, nfitz said:

Given that everything else you've said is false - I can only assume that this is too.

I'm just going to assume this is sarcasm because the alternative is idiotic in the extreme.

26 minutes ago, nfitz said:

There's no indication on why your posts were removed, after you were criticized for making unnecessarily provocative comments that had nothing to do with football. But also, it has nothing to do with The Voyageurs.

I was not the only person involved in that conversation! And I strongly disagree with YOUR OPINION, which by the way has never been voiced to me by a mod, that my posts were "unnecessarily provocative". So, remove the sarcasm: there has indeed been no indication to date on why every post I had ever made and every thread I had ever created was deleted from this forum. 

[Lofty]

31 minutes ago, nfitz said:

And in these posts you say things that are completely untrue, while slandering other Canadian supporters.

Please support that accusation of slander with evidence. Otherwise it is itself slander (or more accurately libel).

(I've already shown above why your first statement is nonsense.)

Edited May 1, 2020 by Lofty

[Lofty]

38 minutes ago, nfitz said:

Your asking these questions in thread about the CPL, in a subforum about that league, that not even all the national team followers all follow - let alone many other Voyageurs ... which has no relationship with the CPL.

...

This rather perfectly sums up one of the key points being made: there is no central place to go to discuss all things Voyageurs. A place where these issues can be raised and discussed. Is that not a problem for you?

And there is really no point in indicating a now defunct site that nobody visits or a facebook page that is also far from universally accepted or used.

[nfitz]

On 5/1/2020 at 6:32 PM, Winnipeg Fury said:

I'm not overreacting or saying anything false.  Nor am I making personal attacks.

You said that there is no Voyageurs site. This is not true.

You said there is no platform for communication. This is not true.

And you have made personal attacks by noting that Jamie is the only person involved with the Voyageurs, and then saying that it's all about the "only objective now, is to get into bed with the CSA and get their money".

Why do you tell such obvious bald-faced lies?

Edited May 11, 2020 by nfitz

[Lofty]

@rob.notenboom and @MrsC I am saddened to see you guys being so defensive. Would it not be better to simply answer (or find answers to) the questions Dwayne is asking?

I'm sure there is a civil conversation to be had here (I don't mean to imply that this discussion has not been civil), where questions are asked and answered and transparency rules. Particularly with one of the "founding fathers" of the Voyageurs!

[Lofty]

2 minutes ago, nfitz said:

You said that there is no Voyageurs site. This is note true.

You said there is no platform for communication. This is not true.

And you have made personal attacks by noting that Jamie is the only person involved with the Voyageurs, and then saying that it's all about the "only objective now, is to get into bed with the CSA and get their money".

Why do you tell such obvious bald-faced lies?

Please stop. You are getting boring.

[nfitz]

21 minutes ago, Lofty said:

This is extremely disingenuous. You know very well that nobody visits that site anymore because all the football content was moved here!

The non-Voyageurs content was moved here. I don't see any disingenuity. Winnipeg claimed there was site. That was disingenuous.
 

21 minutes ago, Lofty said:

Many people do not use facebook. If you asked a bunch of random Vs to identify the central place where they could go to discuss all things Voyageurs, how many would say "facebook"?

Many people don't own computers. That doesn't make Winnipeg's comment true though - it's still a blatant lie.

 

21 minutes ago, Lofty said:

I'm just going to assume this is sarcasm because the alternative is idiotic in the extreme.

It was't sarcastic. Do you have any proof that it's all about getting money from the CSA - because that looks like another lie to me.\

 

21 minutes ago, Lofty said:

I was not the only person involved in that conversation! And I strongly disagree with YOUR OPINION, which by the way has never been voiced to me by a mod, that my posts were "unnecessarily provocative". So, remove the sarcasm: there has indeed been no indication to date on why every post I had ever made and every thread I had ever created was deleted from this forum. 

If you are really so tone death, that you can't why unnecessarily making the same ethnic comments that the far-right are using in their racist rants isn't unnecessarily provocative, then you should be banned in my opinion!

[nfitz]

5 minutes ago, Lofty said:

Please stop. You are getting boring.

I'm getting boring? Yet your insist on inappropriate off-topic comments!

[Winnipeg Fury]

 

For the sake of this thread, is everyone ok if I just delete my posts so CPL General is not completely railroaded  ?

Not to discount anyone else's post, but we have really gone off the rails from CPL General, and this could go on forever.

 

[rob.notenboom]

39 minutes ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

 

I'm not overreacting or saying anything false.  Nor am I making personal attacks.

Like I said, my friends have sent pm/phoned.  

 

Well I’m curious as to what leads you to believe that the Vs only want to get into bed with the CSA and get their money then. And considering that Jamie is leading this parade I’m unsure how this is not both false and a personal attack. 
 

Perhaps I should DM you though. However I’m fighting with a toilet and a light fixture right now. Good times.

 

Edit: Just saw your post, Dwayne after I posted. To be continued elsewhere. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by rob.notenboom

[Aird25]

The fact that this off topic charade has gone on for this long is mind boggling. This would have been kicked to the curb or split out to a relevant thread in the past. What is going on?

[Winnipeg Fury]

 

You are right.  It would have been moved to a V's discussion on the old forum, which had it's own sub section.  That no longer exists.

 

[nfitz]

3 hours ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

You are right.  It would have been moved to a V's discussion on the old forum, which had it's own sub section.  That no longer exists.

Still exists - https://www.thevoyageurs.org/forums/forum/21-voyageurs/