CPL General

[johnyb]

Cant find the Valour season thread. I'm guessing Lofty started it and it got deleted along with all his posts.

Edited April 28, 2020 by johnyb

[Ed_S]

1 minute ago, johnyb said:

Cant find the Valour season thread. I'm guessing Lofty started it and it got deleted along with all his posts.

 Well that's a rather a broad stroke taken by the mod(s).

 

[SpursFlu]

200k dead, lives ruined, trillions lost. Its important we get these terms right guys 

[Ed_S]

12 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

200k dead, lives ruined, trillions lost. Its important we get these terms right guys 

Wiping out a couple of years of Valour posts seems like an insanely heavy handed response.  A 'not cool man' response would have been sufficient. A pandemic doesn't mean the end of free speech. Censored for the 'c' word? It sure as fuck ain't the Flin Flon flu. I don't think it is appropriate for a politician or public figure to refer to the flu that way but this seems an over the top reaction on a soccer forum. Whereas I think the politician who went after Canada's Dr Tam is a racist (other) c-word, I don't see any WHO directives on renaming the Spanish flu or the Ebola virus which are both very ethnically/geographically specific.

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Ed_S

[An Observer]

1 hour ago, RS said:

There’s so much misinformation being passed off as fact in this thread. Here’s what’s what:

- SARS-CoV-2 is the virus name. It is a novel coronavirus. 
- COVID-19 is the disease that is caused by the aforementioned virus.
- The WHO has advised against using locations in disease and virus names in 2015. Also, the WHO doesn’t actually name viruses.

Anyone still using the terms “Chinese virus”, “Wuhan virus” or anything similar at this point in time knows exactly what they are inferring.

With all of this in mind, I would also like to know how Lofty left the board. His account is the first (that I know of) to be deleted outright in the wake of a controversial post, but no one seems to know why. 

(I’d also like to discuss the CPL in here, but I know that cat is out of the bag.)

I live in Hong Kong and in my residential building, the Chinese mgmt that runs the building refers to the virus as the Chinese (Wuhan) Virus in their postings in the lobby about taking appropriate measures to stop its spread.  I guess they are racist about themselves.  

[SpursFlu]

57 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

Wiping out a couple of years of Valour posts seems like an insanely heavy handed response.  A 'not cool man' response would have been sufficient. A pandemic doesn't mean the end of free speech. Censored for the 'c' word? It sure as **** ain't the Flin Flon flu. I don't think it is appropriate for a politician or public figure to refer to the flu that way but this seems an over the top reaction on a soccer forum. Whereas I think the politician who went after Canada's Dr Tam is a racist (other) c-word, I don't see any WHO directives on renaming the Spanish flu or the Ebola virus which are both very ethnically/geographically specific.

 

Just because it's a Virus from China doesn't give someone the right to go straight up klu klux Klan and call it a China Virus

[An Observer]

Maybe I am too much of a lawyer but I think there should be a code of conduct that is developed for participation on here that posters by signing up have to agree to abide by which bans racist, sexist, etc. behaviour and ongoing disrespectful behaviour by calling people names.  Some egregious behaviour can result in an immediate ban and less egriogious behaviour a warning (where repeated violations result in a ban).  Any ban/warning should be communicated with the reason stated clearly (including in a thread to the board) and that individual should have a right to appeal to a group of voyageurs to be reinstated.

It may sound cumbersome but honestly, I think it will result in much better behaviour on here as members will know what is acceptable and what is not; and when they cross the line, it will be communicated to them clearly.  It also protects the mods as right now they are having to make decisions which (1) are based more on their personal interpretations of what is right and wrong; (2) they don't have a place to be transparent on why they banned someone; and (3) as there is no appeal, they don't have the option of being backed up (or not) by a wider group of voyageurs so they are out there on their own.

Overtime, I am confident that over time this will result in better behaviour on this board and hopefully, attract back some of those that have been lost if they know its not going to be a slagging match

[Ams1984]

21 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Just because it's a Virus from China doesn't give someone the right to go straight up klu klux Klan and call it a China Virus

It’s not ‘straight up’ KKK. In your mind maybe. In real life, it’s an accurate if inflammatory statement. My Dad was Spanish, I don’t get all defensive and touchy when people refer to the Spanish flu.

I know that certain late night ‘comedy’ hosts and politicians are bleating about how ‘racist’ everything is, but 99% of the time, it’s in their heads. 
 

The fact is, I have a deep seeded fury towards the Chinese government over this. I want them to be punished. Accurately calling this virus the ‘Chinese’ virus is fine by me. And no, that doesn’t make me “racist”. Grab a dictionary and look the word up 

[SpursFlu]

3 minutes ago, Ams1984 said:

It’s not ‘straight up’ KKK. In your mind maybe. In real life, it’s an accurate if inflammatory statement. My Dad was Spanish, I don’t get all defensive and touchy when people refer to the Spanish flu.

I know that certain late night ‘comedy’ hosts and politicians are bleating about how ‘racist’ everything is, but 99% of the time, it’s in their heads. 
 

The fact is, I have a deep seeded fury towards the Chinese government over this. I want them to be punished. Accurately calling this virus the ‘Chinese’ virus is fine by me. And no, that doesn’t make me “racist”. Grab a dictionary and look the word up 

Your Spanish? Buddy my great great great uncle Jebedia Flu died of the Spanish Flu. For years I carried around this uncontrollable anger towards all things Spain. Tapas, Flamenco dancers, Sergio Ramos you name it. I would randomly attack any Spaniard I saw walking around with their long hair and unbuttoned dress shirts. Then someone on Twitter enlightened me that the name Spanish Flu was racist and the flu was actually from America not Spain. It's not history it's his story. Now I really dont not what to think. I'm so confused but still really angry. Mostly towards people who eat meat, lacross players and people who refuse to talk to me about binge watching Ozark

[Ed_S]

5 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Your Spanish? Buddy my great great great uncle Jebedia Flu died of the Spanish Flu. For years I carried around this uncontrollable anger towards all things Spain. Tapas, Flamenco dancers, Sergio Ramos you name it. I would randomly attack any Spaniard I saw walking around with their long hair and unbuttoned dress shirts. Then someone on Twitter enlightened me that the name Spanish Flu was racist and the flu was actually from America not Spain. It's not history it's his story. Now I really dont not what to think. I'm so confused but still really angry. Mostly towards people who eat meat, lacross players and people who refuse to talk to me about binge watching Ozark

Don't quit your day job dude as humour doesn't seem your strong suit. The poster who was banned straight up called me a wanker in a post. That was a direct violation of the forum rules on this site but people get heated sometimes and what he said isn't going to make me any less inclined to bitch and moan about praising the Yanks on a Cdn soccer supporters forum.  Also I am no Brit so the term doesn't really get under my skin. He went so far as to tell me to go back to my circle jerk behaviour which would have led to spittin chiclets on the ice 50 years ago, but this is a soccer forum and banter is banter so you know, at the end of the day, I wasn't really hurt.

Now I must say I'm much more a mathematician than an English major, but frankly I don't see a whole hell of a lot of difference between your 4 word description and that 'unholy 2 word abomination' that prompted this ban.

On the other hand, your Klu Klux Klan remark is quite a racist statement which is really really over the top branding of his alleged trangression in describing this flu. Ironically, it also brought to mind how the Chinese government treat the Wiegers; today, not 60 years ago. 

[Ams1984]

31 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Your Spanish? Buddy my great great great uncle Jebedia Flu died of the Spanish Flu. For years I carried around this uncontrollable anger towards all things Spain. Tapas, Flamenco dancers, Sergio Ramos you name it. I would randomly attack any Spaniard I saw walking around with their long hair and unbuttoned dress shirts. Then someone on Twitter enlightened me that the name Spanish Flu was racist and the flu was actually from America not Spain. It's not history it's his story. Now I really dont not what to think. I'm so confused but still really angry. Mostly towards people who eat meat, lacross players and people who refuse to talk to me about binge watching Ozark

You’ll notice how I said ‘towards the government’ not the people. Don’t straw man or pretend that I’m saying something I’m not. 

[SpursFlu]

K well you guys keep calling it the China Virus and I guess this chicken chow mien im eating is Chinese food. Say hi to OJ Simpson and David Duke at your next Klan meeting. Thanks to social distancing hopefully you've both grabbed your last pussies.

Edited April 28, 2020 by SpursFlu

[Ams1984]

7 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

K well you guys keep calling it the China Virus and I guess this chicken chow mien im eating is Chinese food. Say hi to OJ Simpson and David Duke at your next Klan meeting. Thanks to social distancing hopefully you've both grabbed your last pussies.

Wow... have fun getting outraged and straw-manning things. 

[SpursFlu]

10 minutes ago, Ams1984 said:

Wow... have fun getting outraged and straw-manning things. 

I guess we can both agree on 1 thing. We miss the good old days, like when Canadians picked up on sarcasm 

Edited April 28, 2020 by SpursFlu

[Ams1984]

1 minute ago, SpursFlu said:

I guess we can both agree on 1 thing. We miss the good old days, like when Canadians got sarcasm 

Ah... if you were being sarcastic, I guess that might be my mistake then. I’m often told that I don’t always get sarcasm. At any rate, cheers to better times. Health to all (no sarcasm here). 

[SpursFlu]

No worries it was a bit fun. Let me get back to my jog. I need to be careful. CNN told me that when I jog my coronavirus flies 50 feet in the air and attacks peoples pet lion

Edited April 28, 2020 by SpursFlu

[SthMelbRed]

9 hours ago, gator said:

I know Doug (Lofty) quite well, we support the same team and shared a room when we went to Wembley in 2014, I don't think  there are many people supporting QPR and having lived in that part of London that are racist! ! He has some strong political leanings, many of which I don't agree with but respect! I don't know the whole situation because I don't read all of his posts because I'm not on here as much anymore, you know why? I am a little tired of the personal insults thrown at me from posters disagreeing with my opinions, mostly by newer members, that's ok but we're not going to deal with a long term member (Lofty) appropriately? 

Wow! I've learned so much in the few minutes it's taken me to read the last couple of pages of this thread.

I now know that supporting QPR and possibly having lived in West London means that you're somehow incapable of being racist. This is not something that I managed to pick up in several years of living in NW London. Here's a guy, born and raised in West London, himself, considered by some to be a QPR legend, who might benefit from this knowledge, too.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/les-ferdinand-interview-qpr-racism-a4355396.html

Now, not knowing the actual circumstances of Lofty's apparent banning, I don't have much to add. I guess with him gone, I can at least browse the CPL forum without having to scroll through dozens of his inane, highly annoying posts, though. Honestly, I've never known someone with such a compulsion to throw his two cents in on every, single topic, no matter how little value those opinions added.

[nfitz]

3 hours ago, An Observer said:

I live in Hong Kong and in my residential building, the Chinese mgmt that runs the building refers to the virus as the Chinese (Wuhan) Virus in their postings in the lobby about taking appropriate measures to stop its spread.  I guess they are racist about themselves.  

Is the management really from mainland China or is it from Hong Kong?

Surely, a reference in Hong Kong to the virus being of Chinese origin is just as much of a slur as it is here. I don't get the impression there's much love for the mainland, from many in Hong Kong.

Quite frankly, anyone who is racist enough to continue using such a term, and defend it, after being told that many find it objectionable, is the kind of ***** we don't need here.

This has nothing to do with CPL. Can we move on?

Obviously no moderator intended to remove every post someone ever made. Likely a moderation error, or a software glitch.

Edited April 28, 2020 by nfitz

[An Observer]

2 hours ago, nfitz said:

Is the management really from mainland China or is it from Hong Kong?

Surely, a reference in Hong Kong to the virus being of Chinese origin is just as much of a slur as it is here. I don't get the impression there's much love for the mainland, from many in Hong Kong.

Quite frankly, anyone who is racist enough to continue using such a term, and defend it, after being told that many find it objectionable, is the kind of ***** we don't need here.

This has nothing to do with CPL. Can we move on?

Obviously no moderator intended to remove every post someone ever made. Likely a moderation error, or a software glitch.

To be clear, I meant Chinese ethnicity not nationality as the staff are definitely local Hong Kongers (although (1) the management company is actually a mainland Chinese company and (2) all people from Hong Kong are Chinese nationality as well as HK is part of China).  And you are correct, many people (but far from all) dont like the mainland here but that doesn't equate to racism as they certainly are not racist against the Chinese of which they are one.  If the virus started in India, they would be calling it the Indian virus for sure here.  If the virus started in Belgium, the Chinese (especially the mainlanders) would be calling it the Belgian virus.  There are zero sensitivities to political correctness in HK and China (unless you make innocuous references to animals when discussing China....of which we - even the political correctness advocates - would find completely unoffensive - Example: https://www.euromoney.com/article/b1fwjr3d3sbbcr/lost-in-translation-has-a-comment-on-pigs-cost-ubs-a-bond-deal). 

Anyway, I personally don't refer to Covid 19 as the Chinese or Wuhan virus but I don't necessarily find people that do "racist" by definition.  It depends on the context.  I am frequently refer to as a gweilo (ghost) here in HK or on the mainland, "big nose" (and lets be honest, white people have bigger noses than Chinese people on average), I don't immediately think of the people here as being racists.  It really depends on the context.

[RS]

It seems I have touched a nerve by posting accurate information about the virus. Who knew so many were so adamant about using incorrect terms?

The Spanish flu likely didn't originate in Spain, by the way.

[gator]

8 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Wow! I've learned so much in the few minutes it's taken me to read the last couple of pages of this thread.

I now know that supporting QPR and possibly having lived in West London means that you're somehow incapable of being racist. This is not something that I managed to pick up in several years of living in NW London. Here's a guy, born and raised in West London, himself, considered by some to be a QPR legend, who might benefit from this knowledge, too.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/les-ferdinand-interview-qpr-racism-a4355396.html

Now, not knowing the actual circumstances of Lofty's apparent banning, I don't have much to add. I guess with him gone, I can at least browse the CPL forum without having to scroll through dozens of his inane, highly annoying posts, though. Honestly, I've never known someone with such a compulsion to throw his two cents in on every, single topic, no matter how little value those opinions added.

You might want to read my post again, did I say you are incapable of being racist or are there no racists in West London? Whatever fits your narrative because you were obviously annoyed by him, maybe while your digging up articles you can find me one that names another club in Britain which has named its stadium after a person of colour! Cheers!

Edited April 28, 2020 by gator

[Winnipeg Fury]

 

Who are the moderators and who scrubbed Lofty ?

Maybe we should hear from our lone Director ?

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Winnipeg Fury

[Big_M]

Dont forget this is Canadian Soccer News and not The Voyageurs..so probably The Voyageurs cannot be held accountable for what happens on this forum..and I believe it was one of the reasons for the move..so the question is who is the owner or director of CSN

[red card]

2 hours ago, RS said:

It seems I have touched a nerve by posting accurate information about the virus. Who knew so many were so adamant about using incorrect terms?

The Spanish flu likely didn't originate in Spain, by the way.

Correct. Spain was neutral during WW1, so they were the first ones allowed to actually report the outbreak. Other European & US censored flu outbreak news to keep focus on the war and keep up morale. Educated guesses I have read is that it could have started in the US or UK.

[SpursFlu]

I always thought the Spanish Flu was called the Spanish Flu because it really didn't fully hit public consciousness until the king of Spain got really sick from it and almost died

Edited April 28, 2020 by SpursFlu