CPL General

[Initial B]

Late to the discussion, but if there were single-entity aspects to CanPL, that could be a reason why OSEG balked at having the Fury join the league if they lost a measure of independence.

As for playoffs, just before the Fury joined NASL, the playoff structure was just like it is for CanPL now. But in 2013, the Spring and Fall winners played the championship game, but the team with the most combined points was excluded. This lead the league to institute a 4 team playoff system with the Spring and Fall Champions hosting a play-in round against the two non-champion clubs with the highest combined season points. I would be fine with a playoff format like that. Note also that 2014 was the year the Fury joined NASL and the league expanded to 10 teams. (*sigh* Things looked so bright then...)

I'd be fine with a 10-team Division 1. 

So long as the 9th and 10th spots gets relegated to one of 2 or 3 regional Division 2 Conferences. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Initial B

[CDNFootballer]

5 hours ago, Initial B said:

Late to the discussion, but if there were single-entity aspects to CanPL, that could be a reason why OSEG balked at having the Fury join the league if they lost a measure of independence.

As for playoffs, just before the Fury joined NASL, the playoff structure was just like it is for CanPL now. But in 2013, the Spring and Fall winners played the championship game, but the team with the most combined points was excluded. This lead the league to institute a 4 team playoff system with the Spring and Fall Champions hosting a play-in round against the two non-champion clubs with the highest combined season points. I would be fine with a playoff format like that. Note also that 2014 was the year the Fury joined NASL and the league expanded to 10 teams. (*sigh* Things looked so bright then...)

I'd be fine with a 10-team Division 1. 

So long as the 9th and 10th spots gets relegated to one of 2 or 3 regional Division 2 Conferences. 

CPL is a club owned league following the more common international model mainly and not single entity like MLS so Fury would/will not lose independence. The only thing they will lose is the ability to be a minor league affiliate for an MLS team as they are now since CPL as a D1 league doesn't allow for minor league affiliates or reserve teams in their league. They will gain a revenue stream from CSB however, and over the years that will likely grow.

As for playoffs, I expect CPL will go the 4 team route for next year, keeping most clubs in the race during the regular Spring and Fall seasons.

[Bison44]

 

11 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

CPL is a club owned league following the more common international model mainly and not single entity like MLS so Fury would/will not lose independence. The only thing they will lose is the ability to be a minor league affiliate for an MLS team as they are now since CPL as a D1 league doesn't allow for minor league affiliates or reserve teams in their league. They will gain a revenue stream from CSB however, and over the years that will likely grow.

As for playoffs, I expect CPL will go the 4 team route for next year, keeping most clubs in the race during the regular Spring and Fall seasons.

If Ottawa are a "affiliate" its only in the loosest terms.  What do they have 3 guys from Ottawa and 3 from TFC?  Just to do a little comparing, some league one teams just off the top of my head, Ipswitch has 3 loanees, Blackpool 4, Bolton 4, Gillingham 5.  Its a little harsh on Ottawa and there would be nothing wrong with CPL teams all having several loanees, I dont think it diminshes the league at all.  

[Bison44]

Teams were random, loans i looked up.  I looked up a lower league, because we are the lower league.  My point was big teams loan to smaller teams.  There are some loans in EPL, but not many, because what teams are bigger than they are eh?  I pulled up the Jupiter league, damn near every team had a few loans on the roster.  I tried Series A...Roma had 6 on their roster... same with  Bunda and MLS, .....etc etc.  It wont hurt our league, and I cant see why it would be a stumbling block to keep Ottawa from joining.  

[Aird25]

2 hours ago, Lofty said:

None of the teams you mention are D1 (i.e. Premier League) teams. And if you really did that off the top of your head and it is accurate, kudos!

The loan process is a siren song for smaller clubs. They effectively develop players for the bigger lending clubs but do not get the transfer fee reward they used to get. This allows the bigger clubs to hog all the talent and significantly reduces revenue for the smaller clubs.

I wish that CPL would outlaw loans so that the players who benefit from playing in CPL will give something back to CPL (in the form of a transfer fee) when they move up (yes, they can play out their contract and move for nothing but nobody will want to wait when a bigger team comes calling). Welshman is a good example; Forge deserved a fee for the opportunity they gave him and have been just fine without him: the point being that the "loan" was not needed and they could have stood their ground on insisting on a transfer before they played him.

Christ, Bayern take players on loan all the time. It’s a great strategy to acquire talent and save on transfer fees. You can always negotiate an option to buy into the agreement too. Teams just need to be smarter  about it 

[CDNFootballer]

20 hours ago, Bison44 said:

 

If Ottawa are a "affiliate" its only in the loosest terms.  What do they have 3 guys from Ottawa and 3 from TFC?  Just to do a little comparing, some league one teams just off the top of my head, Ipswitch has 3 loanees, Blackpool 4, Bolton 4, Gillingham 5.  Its a little harsh on Ottawa and there would be nothing wrong with CPL teams all having several loanees, I dont think it diminshes the league at all.  

I understand your point but they are an official MLS minor league affiliate no matter the amount of players the parent MLS club has provided. The MLS/USL minor league affiliate agreement provides for up to 8 players provided from the parent MLS franchise.

CPL is ok with loans from the american MLS as there have been a few, just not multiple loans from the same MLS club as it gives the impression that they are a minor league affiliate, and CPL as Canada's D1 does not want that impression given in any way for any of its clubs.

This is the correct decision, and there has been talk of CPL not allowing more than 2 loans I think, from the same MLS franchise, to prohibit the impression of any minor league affiliates or reserve teams  in the Canadian Premier League. 

[SthMelbRed]

I think the argument can be made for something like restricting each CanPL club to a maximum of 3 loans in per season, with no more than 2 coming from a single club, from whichever league.

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, CDNFootballer said:

I understand your point but they are an official MLS minor league affiliate no matter the amount of players the parent MLS club has provided. The MLS/USL minor league affiliate agreement provides for up to 8 players provided from the parent MLS franchise.

CPL is ok with loans from the american MLS as there have been a few, just not multiple loans from the same MLS club as it gives the impression that they are a minor league affiliate, and CPL as Canada's D1 does not want that impression given in any way for any of its clubs.

This is the correct decision, and there has been talk of CPL not allowing more than 2 loans I think, from the same MLS franchise, to prohibit the impression of any minor league affiliates or reserve teams  in the Canadian Premier League. 

You are making my point for me..if they are only getting 1-2 players, why continue with any official affiliation agreement??  TMG and Daniels are the only ones who play and would be missed.  Ottawas independence or lack there off effecting its decison on which league to play in shouldnt be swayed by such weak affiliation.  If they had an official deal with montreal and had 6-7 players that were more integral to the team..sure they dont want to lose that.  But if we are talking about TMG and Daniels (one from each club) I dont see why they couldnt scrap the "official" agreement and just pick up the one guy, unofficially.   Just like Welshman, Telfer Smith etc were picked up and it didnt bother CPL at all.  Easy peasy, one less thing to fret about so lets all have a group hug.  

[CDNFootballer]

32 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

You are making my point for me..if they are only getting 1-2 players, why continue with any official affiliation agreement??  TMG and Daniels are the only ones who play and would be missed.  Ottawas independence or lack there off effecting its decison on which league to play in shouldnt be swayed by such weak affiliation.  If they had an official deal with montreal and had 6-7 players that were more integral to the team..sure they dont want to lose that.  But if we are talking about TMG and Daniels (one from each club) I dont see why they couldnt scrap the "official" agreement and just pick up the one guy, unofficially.   Just like Welshman, Telfer Smith etc were picked up and it didnt bother CPL at all.  Easy peasy, one less thing to fret about so lets all have a group hug.  

I agree, Fury can and will need to drop the official agreement and abide by the CPL rules on loans and still can get a player or two.

If they want to remain a minor league affiliate and get more players than CPL rules would allow from Montreal and Toronto as well that are payed by the MLS franchises then stay in USL.

[Kent]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

You are making my point for me..if they are only getting 1-2 players, why continue with any official affiliation agreement??  TMG and Daniels are the only ones who play and would be missed.  Ottawas independence or lack there off effecting its decison on which league to play in shouldnt be swayed by such weak affiliation.  If they had an official deal with montreal and had 6-7 players that were more integral to the team..sure they dont want to lose that.  But if we are talking about TMG and Daniels (one from each club) I dont see why they couldnt scrap the "official" agreement and just pick up the one guy, unofficially.   Just like Welshman, Telfer Smith etc were picked up and it didnt bother CPL at all.  Easy peasy, one less thing to fret about so lets all have a group hug.  

Isn’t there an MLS league rule that every team needs a reserve team in USL or at least an affiliate in USL? Maybe despite the seeming ineffectiveness of the affiliate agreement they are getting some other payments from Montreal. Purely speculation of course.

[JamboAl]

I'd like to know what this "affiliate" agreement the Fury has with the Impact actually means.  When it was first announced last year, I was really not happy because I thought that the team would become Impact B.  But two years later,  I cannot tell anyone how the affiliation has had any effect on the player movements for the Fury.  So yeah on paper there is an affiliation.  But I have no idea what "impact" its had.

[Bison44]

Kent: I am pretty sure every team has some sort of official "affiliate" either in USL champ or USL-1.  When you look it up though it really varies, some teams have only a few loanees, and some are completely loaded with loans and academy kids.  Plus plenty of them have players on loan from multiple teams not just the parent club.  As per usual MLS, it all seems murky and confusing.  

[CDNFootballer]

6 hours ago, JamboAl said:

I'd like to know what this "affiliate" agreement the Fury has with the Impact actually means.  When it was first announced last year, I was really not happy because I thought that the team would become Impact B.  But two years later,  I cannot tell anyone how the affiliation has had any effect on the player movements for the Fury.  So yeah on paper there is an affiliation.  But I have no idea what "impact" its had.

It means the Impact can send up to 8 players to the Fury as per the agreement, and apparently Montreal pays the players so the Fury gets a break on salaries but they lose some independence on the roster as the players aren't sent down to Ottawa to ride the bench.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

50 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

It means the Impact can send up to 8 players to the Fury as per the agreement, and apparently Montreal pays the players so the Fury gets a break on salaries but they lose some independence on the roster as the players aren't sent down to Ottawa to ride the bench.

Can remember reading somewhere that the Fury inisist on retaining full control over team selection, so that last bit isn't necessarily the case. They are an affiliate rather than a reserve team.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Aird25]

Can we keep this thread about CPL. Talk of the Fury makes me angry

[MM3/MM2/MM]

2 hours ago, Aird25 said:

Can we keep this thread about CPL. Talk of the Fury makes me furious

 

[fil]

This guy makes you angry? Watch out, he has a temper! He is pointing at you Aird25...

 

[CDNFootballer]

14 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Can remember reading somewhere that the Fury inisist on retaining full control over team selection, so that last bit isn't necessarily the case. They are an affiliate rather than a reserve team.

That comes from the Fury themselves, and of course they're going to say that for PR purposes. Daglish said that when he was coach in Ottawa for instance. They're not going to play up the fact they're an official minor league affiliate for an MLS franchise and that they have to give minutes to  the parent teams players. That won't exactly bring in the fans.

[Sébastien]

13 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

That comes from the Fury themselves, and of course they're going to say that for PR purposes. Daglish said that when he was coach in Ottawa for instance. They're not going to play up the fact they're an official minor league affiliate for an MLS franchise and that they have to give minutes to  the parent teams players. That won't exactly bring in the fans.

Those were my exact thoughts originally, but it has ended up not being the case. Ever since the announcement of the affiliation, I have seen little to no evidence of any preferential treatment of Impact players. When players were good, they played. When they aren't as good, they've stayed on the bench.

A perfect example is Maxime Crépeau, who actually started his only season in Ottawa as the backup to Callum Irving, only to take over the top job when Irving faulted in his first few matches.

Again. I was not a fan of the affiliation announcement. Deep down, I still wish it didn't exist, as I would prefer for the Fury to develop their own players and transfer them upwards from here. But to say that the Fury has turned into an MLS minor-league franchise is flat wrong.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[SadOnMondays]

21 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

 

Seems odd. I think the international players on the whole have been pretty good and well selected

[narduch]

Someone must have complained about Paolucci

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

If accurate, my guess would be it's younger players like the Belgian goalkeeper in Winnipeg that are viewed as the issue in terms of taking away playing time from Canadians that could just as easily be developed. Personally think they should cut back the number of imports to three and go for quality rather than quantity with experienced older players that can raise the overall level of play in an Escalante and Malonga sort of way and pass on their experience to their younger Canadian teammates.

[Bison44]

3 hours ago, SadOnMondays said:

Seems odd. I think the international players on the whole have been pretty good and well selected

???  You havnt watched Valour this season i take it??  For all the tweaks they could be making this doesnt seem to be a pressing one.  I dont know if anyone (anyone reasonable) would try and argue that there wasnt enough young CDN content on display this year.  Maybe they are adding a "no grandfather" clause, no import over 30..ie no retirement league rule or a Logans run rule for you older folk.  Just to further deliniate our league from certain other leagues that we definatley are not and should not compete with.  

[SadOnMondays]

Valid point, I was mostly thinking of the international players on Forge and Calvary; I think the greater issue with Valour, and for that matter the Wanderers, are the coaches and those making the personnel decisions.