CPL General

[Kent]

"1) may to sept season to avoid nhl, nba and football 2) dps 3) playoffs 4) more games on cbc 5) friendlies 6) radio"

If I were to rank these from most desirable to least desirable for me personally, it would look like this.

1. Friendlies
2. More games on CBC
3. May to Sept
4. Playoffs
5. DPs

Friendlies I don't have a problem with at this point in CPL's development. I don't like it for TFC, but it can serve a purpose for CPL teams. More games on CBC is better, it's not number 1 since there seems to be no promotion so I'm not sure how effective it has been this year. DPs I put last because although I think it could spark interest in the teams, I think long term it is bad for player development and causes other problems. So it could be good in the short term, but long term I think it's problematic (having un-benchable players, huge disparity in salaries within the locker room, and long term performance hit to the team's potential play quality).

Oh, and I guess Radio is the real last place. I don't think that does anything really.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Kent
Oops, Radio

[PaulV]

12 minutes ago, Kent said:

Oh, and I guess Radio is the real last place. I don't think that does anything really.

Don't disagree that it's a lower priority but having a radio partner provides more exposure for people who listen to sports radio (assuming the city has one). If they are broadcasting a game, they will likely promote it during the morning and afternoon rush hour shows. They will often have a weekly soccer show where they talk about the team. Even if people never actually listen to games on the radio (which can be a good option if you're stuck driving around) you will get the team and their games exposed to fans of other local teams.

[deschamp86]

17 minutes ago, Kent said:

1. Friendlies
2. More games on CBC
3. May to Sept
4. Playoffs
5. DPs

I agree more or less but I do think Playoffs are needed until pro/rel becomes a thing.

I'd order it as:

1. More Games on CBC (Get the product out to casuals, no soccer fan I know that isn't already a CPL fan is going to buy OneSoccer)

2. Friendlies (Will get more casuals out to games depending on the opposition)

3. Playoffs (The games don't have enough meaning, it was pretty clear even in the spring season, that Forge would be the one to beat for the fall season unless they started playing really shitty)

4. DPs (I like the way it is right now, but May to Sept needs to be last)

5. May to Sept (No. They can avoid the NHL season a lot easier by playing less midweek games and playing afternoon games on the weekends when the season is in. I understand another team is needed, but I don't see the need to compress the season even more than it already is)

[SpursFlu]

You can't play a season just May to Sept and be taken seriously. That's ridiculous 

I think it would be smart, maybe a bye week in the summer, where teams can book friendlies with Euro teams or any other would be great

More games on traditional media, tv and radio as well as playoffs are no brainers for me

I also think an additional Concacaf spot would be key

Edited October 7, 2019 by SpursFlu

[Gopherbashi]

This may just be me, but someone who names their twitter account "CanPLeak" seems like they're just fishing for attention instead of actually having a credible & continuing "leak" source.

I wouldn't put any stock in what they're saying.

[SpursFlu]

23 minutes ago, PaulV said:

Don't disagree that it's a lower priority but having a radio partner provides more exposure for people who listen to sports radio (assuming the city has one). If they are broadcasting a game, they will likely promote it during the morning and afternoon rush hour shows. They will often have a weekly soccer show where they talk about the team. Even if people never actually listen to games on the radio (which can be a good option if you're stuck driving around) you will get the team and their games exposed to fans of other local teams.

I totally agree. I work with marketing and so often now they shun traditional media outlets for digital and I've noticed the results have been poor. With digital media you often get lost in a maze of digital noise and you can get stuck in your own bubble. I think synergy between traditional media, physical space and digital is needed. They all help drive each people to each other

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

10 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

You can't play a season just May to Sept and be taken seriously. That's ridiculous ...

The original CSL used to back in the day and were taken reasonably seriously. If people aren't showing up in sufficient numbers when it's cold and wet adjustments have to be made, so would not be surprised if that's really currently up for discussion along with playoffs.

Just now, Gopherbashi said:

This may just be me, but someone who names their twitter account "CanPLeak" seems like they're just fishing for attention instead of actually having a credible & continuing "leak" source.

I wouldn't put any stock in what they're saying.

One of the more controversial claims has been confirmed by somebody in Edmonton known to have reasonably good contacts and wasn't this account active in the weeks leading up to the launch and correct about a few things previously?

[SpursFlu]

10 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The original CSL used to back in the day and were taken reasonably seriously. If people aren't showing up in sufficient numbers when it's cold and wet adjustments have to be made, so would not be surprised if that's really currently up for discussion along with playoffs.

One of the more controversial claims has been confirmed by somebody in Edmonton known to have reasonably good contacts and wasn't this account active in the weeks leading up to the launch and correct about a few things previously?

What's it matter if people aren't showing up in sufficient numbers for teams that have zero left to play for. Why would people show up? If the weather was perfect and there is zero to play for I wouldn't show up either. That's how sports work

Edited October 7, 2019 by SpursFlu

[Gopherbashi]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

One of the more controversial claims has been confirmed by somebody in Edmonton known to have reasonably good contacts and wasn't this account active in the weeks leading up to the launch and correct about a few things previously?

That's a fair point, I could be mistaken.

[narduch]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

What's it matter if people aren't showing up in sufficient numbers for teams that have zero left to play for. Why would people show up? If the weather was perfect and there is zero to play for I wouldn't show up either. That's how sports work

TFC suffer from this same problem. As do the other 2 MLS teams.

Putting on my Parrot hat, do people really believe there were 23,000 fans at yesterday's TFC game? I'm not buying it.

[Stouffvillain]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

"1) may to sept season to avoid nhl, nba and football 2) dps 3) playoffs 4) more games on cbc 5) friendlies 6) radio"

If I were to rank these from most desirable to least desirable for me personally, it would look like this.

1. Friendlies
2. More games on CBC
3. May to Sept
4. Playoffs
5. DPs

Friendlies I don't have a problem with at this point in CPL's development. I don't like it for TFC, but it can serve a purpose for CPL teams. More games on CBC is better, it's not number 1 since there seems to be no promotion so I'm not sure how effective it has been this year. DPs I put last because although I think it could spark interest in the teams, I think long term it is bad for player development and causes other problems. So it could be good in the short term, but long term I think it's problematic (having un-benchable players, huge disparity in salaries within the locker room, and long term performance hit to the team's potential play quality).

Oh, and I guess Radio is the real last place. I don't think that does anything really.

1. More games on CBC - You have to be pretty in-tuned Canadian soccer fan to know the CPL even exists right now.  If you don't know it exists you aren't buying OS.  Only the hardcore CPL fans have purchased OS so far.  Getting more eyes on the product is the number one objective.  

2. Friendlies - I'm on board but who are these friendlies going to be against?  Would the big worldwide clubs even entertain the idea of going to play a friendly in Winnipeg or Halifax?  That leaves the lesser clubs that probably wouldn't bring in the crowds your looking for.

3. Radio - Goes with #1.  CPL is too much of an unknown to the general public.

Playoffs, shorter season and DP's should be non-starters for the league. 

The playoff debate has been had but a 7 (or 8 ) team league with playoffs seems like children's house league where everyone gets a participation medal.  Playoffs are for the elite, see NFL or MLB where 50+% of the league doesn't qualify.

Shorter season to avoid other sports lacks any confidence.  If your product is only good enough for people's interest when there is absolutely nothing else around then you won't be around very long anyway.

Bringing in DP's would be great for buzz but at this stage of the league won't have the desired effect.  Sure people will buy tickets to see a 40 year old Diego Forlan but when he wins the scoring title the casual will look at the league a such an inferior league that it isn't worth their time.  It is similar to the friendlies where the DP's that might help elevate the league as a whole won't bring in many casuals.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Stouffvillain

[Gopherbashi]

Just out of curiosity, what kind of TV exposure did MLS have in the early days?

(actual curiosity, not snarky curiosity)

Edited October 7, 2019 by Gopherbashi

[narduch]

6 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Just out of curiosity, what kind of TV exposure did MLS have in the early days?

(actual curiosity, not snarky curiosity)

I don't know.

I think people may be spoiled because you can watch every league match for all 3 Canadians MLS teams (I realize its hard to watch Impact outside Quebec though).

[Cheeta]

May to September is pretty much what we have already.  Maybe the thinking is wrapping up the regular season by the end of September and using the 1st weeks of October for playoffs?  That I think I could live with, a lesser evil sort of thing.  Especially if the scheduling becomes more balanced.  No reason any team should be going a week between matches.  Of course the opposite is true as well.  Cup competitions can congest the calender pretty quickly.   

Repeat myself by stating I'm good with an end-of-season playoff tourney for the top 4 teams IF the league champion is appropriately rewarded.  Tournies are fun and the playoff champ will get bragging rights but doesn't make them the league champion. 

DP?  Piss off with that.

Friendlies?  Who?  Who are you going to get to come out that will be a draw, add some excitement to the league and earn the CPL some cred with sports fans?  Oh, and do it on the cheap to-boot.  National team friendlies at CPL venues?  Maybe.  Can't see club friendlies working.

More matches on CBC is a no brainer.  Do it. 

For me outside of the media/marketing aspects in my perfect world for 2020 I'd take as much of a regular schedule as much as is possible (home-away-home-away spaced as evenly as possible) and a single season table, none of this spring-fall season nonsense.  You want to attach a year-end playoff tournie in October I can live with that.  If you don't want to stretch the season into October to space things out better.  Live with that to.  

 All speculaton of course but no reason not to talk about tuning things.  Might find a few good ideas in the conversation.  Bit of fun to.   

 

 

[jonovision]

I've mentioned it before, but the schedule can be compressed when the league has an even number of teams, as there is no need for byes. Playing every weekend of May through September gets you 22 match days. One midweek fixture a month basically gets you to the full slate of 28 league matches. I don't know that it solves the biggest problems but it doesn't hurt.

[ted]

2 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

Just out of curiosity, what kind of TV exposure did MLS have in the early days?

It was potty IIRC. I do remember that first MLS Cup final in the rain at Foxboro which means it must have been on an American Network at least for the final.

 

[SpursFlu]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

I don't know.

I think people may be spoiled because you can watch every league match for all 3 Canadians MLS teams (I realize its hard to watch Impact outside Quebec though).

It's my understanding MLS didnt have a tv deal for its first 10 years. MLS people like to point at Beckham but my personal opinion is MLS was always on shaky ground until TFC, Seattle, Vancouver, Portland, Montreal came along. To me that was the game changer. 3 Canadian cities and 2 American cities that wish they were Canadian. My humble opinion

[CDNFootballer]

4 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

That's a fair point, I could be mistaken.

Your not, Thomas is a good kid and is enthusiastically getting into fan based media now but not a solid source.

[Kent]

2 hours ago, ted said:

It was potty IIRC. I do remember that first MLS Cup final in the rain at Foxboro which means it must have been on an American Network at least for the final.

I remember that game as well. I remember searching for MLS coverage/games for the first few weeks of the season and giving up. The only thing I saw was a single highlight/mention of the inaugural game on I believe it was CNN Headline News. In Canada I believe the MLS Cup final was the only game on TV. I assume there were games on TV in the USA, but I have also heard that in the early years MLS was paying to get TV coverage, rather than networks paying MLS. I don't think the details are known, perhaps it was just covering production costs, and I don't know for sure if that started right from year 1.

I hope that helps your original question @Gopherbashi

[The Real Marc]

3 hours ago, ted said:

It was potty IIRC. I do remember that first MLS Cup final in the rain at Foxboro which means it must have been on an American Network at least for the final.

 

I remember Garth Lagerwey's dreadlocks so something MLS must have been on TV!

[MM3/MM2/MM]

At the time i had one of those old giant dishes and watched a ton of MLS games in the early years.

[PaulV]

Found on the google groups archive of rec.sport.soccer from 1996 regarding MLS TV coverage:

"they'll be all over the place.  ABC will show a few games - all-star and
championship final, for instance, and probably some mid-season NY-LA
match.  ESPN will show about 10 games (i think) - something like one every
other week.  ESPN2 will show more, a game of the week; finally, Univision
will broadcast some in spanish, but i don't know if they will be a
separate block of games or co-transmissions of ABC/ESPN/ESPN2 games."

So, not lacking in exposure even though it's a far cry from the coverage you get today. With ABC and ESPN they would be out there in terms of public exposure. I'm old enough to remember the start of MLS and I'm pretty sure it was higher profile back then compared to the equivalent exposure that the start of CPL has received in Canada this year, although it's not a fair comparison since MLS started across the country and did not lack the largest major markets. Still it was pretty niche, especially if you didn't live in one of the MLS cities.

You see some other posts complaining about the lack of promotion by the TV networks and MLS, so I guess some things aren't necessarily different!

Edited October 8, 2019 by PaulV

[Aird25]

What’s the first tie breaker? Calgary are 6 points up and well ahead on goal differential 

[Scottie]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

What’s the first tie breaker? Calgary are 6 points up and well ahead on goal differential 

Which team is owned by Bob Young.

[Ansem]

On 10/7/2019 at 10:22 PM, PaulV said:

I'm old enough to remember the start of MLS and I'm pretty sure it was higher profile back then compared to the equivalent exposure that the start of CPL has received in Canada this year, although it's not a fair comparison since MLS started across the country and did not lack the largest major markets. Still it was pretty niche, especially if you didn't live in one of the MLS cities.

And to add to that, it was sometime after the 1994 World Cup with a good performance from the USMNT.

CPL doesn't have that but I'm sure the season before 2026 and after will significantly boost the league