Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, RS said:

FC Dallas.

So 1

Its easy to sit on the sidelines and make all these demands but like for instance. I was really excited to see Theo Bair get a run of games but after seeing Theo Bair get a run of games im like holy crap, can we please get some new players so Theo Bair doesn't again this year get a run of games 

 

Not hating but it's clear he's not ready to be a starter in the MLS

Edited by SpursFlu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Ansem said:

Apart from other stuff there, not overly substantial, there's this:

"And, of course, the clubs that are in, they're our partners so they have a say in who comes in -- which again I think is very unique but it is unique to the sports world more than anything else. They're not franchises either. These people are partners. When they come in, they then get a say and get a seat a say and get a seat at the table -- which is a unique business versus others that you see out there."

Of course this will be ignored as soon as some guy in Prince George or Cornerbrook says "those franchises sure are expensive!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Apart from other stuff there, not overly substantial, there's this:

"And, of course, the clubs that are in, they're our partners so they have a say in who comes in -- which again I think is very unique but it is unique to the sports world more than anything else. They're not franchises either. These people are partners. When they come in, they then get a say and get a seat a say and get a seat at the table -- which is a unique business versus others that you see out there."

Of course this will be ignored as soon as some guy in Prince George or Cornerbrook says "those franchises sure are expensive!"

Well ****, he just had to go and say the word "franchises".  Now we'll never hear the end of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Thanks for your thoughts KTF.  This is an important discussion and complex topic.  Due to the MLS, interest in football/soccer in North America is growing.  California and Florida have become quite strong development centres.  Canada, still has a long way to go.  While I'd like to suggest that the geography and weather in Canada play a large role in its lack of performance on the world stage, these challenges can be overcome with the right development programs (just look at Iceland).  Iceland's success is worthy of analysis and evaluation.  There's things to be learned.  However, we don't have to go that far.  As you've noted, Canada's hockey culture/programs are a perfect place to start. Good sport programs start with the sport capturing the imagination and passion of a child (a kid wants to be "Wayne Gretsky" or "Sydney Crosby"). If a development program can keep the interest of the child with support, coaching, technical training, good competition and direction, the child's passion/commitment and potential can be maximized.  My son Scott had passion and commitment for the game.  He was fortunate to have some great coaches and enough success in Calgary to "keep the fire burning."  When he was lucky enough to have the opportunity to continue his development in Europe, we supported the opportunity.  What's important to recognize is that at that point (he was 18), without the opportunity to go to Europe, Scott would not have continued meaningful development.  The Canadian system had almost no development options for Scott (he wasn't at a point in his development that the options available recognized his potential).  Now, four (4) seasons later, with training in Germany and Austria, maybe it will? What did the German and Austrian systems see in Scott that the Canadian system failed to see?  Had we been unable to find options in Europe the likelihood of Scott's potential being fully developed would have been seriously impaired. Of course, four (4) years ago, the CPL didn't exist.  If the CPL continues to succeed, this necessarily improves the athlete development landscape.  I applaud the efforts and success of the Calgary Cavalry owners ... it's an exciting venue and it appears that they've been able to attract solid corporate sponsorship and a decent fan base.

Edited by Ian Kennedy
improvements

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a load of **** please, most of you guys out hear are what they call Monday morning quarter backs , how many on here have actually been involved in the grass roots game here in Canada ? How many have actually coached youth teams , sat in youth club board meetings? Most of these people running this youth clubs where the majority of kids come from are a fucken joke. When it comes to TFC I know for a fact that youth clubs from the Toronto area telling kids not to sign with TFC academy so that they could keep the kids with them so they could win championship s and trophies for their clubs. It’s only been that past few years that this has been changing. So to sit there and keep blaming these Canadian MLS clubs blah fucken blah blah , give me a break. Just remember how ****** up a country these MLS youth academies came into being? How many years of youth soccer having the most youth participants even more than bloody hockey, think about that , hockey in CANADA! But yet so many years of utter futility, this is the landscape these MLS academies came into when they were created less than 10 years ago. Of course even an idiot will agree you add more pro academies with hopefully all the CPL teams eventually started them and our chances of created more pro players will increase substantially. But let’s blame the ****** up youth system that controlled youth soccer development for so so many years before we blame the MLS academies just because they play in the bad old American League , please !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to add to my rant, I know for a fact that a big youth soccer club with over 4000 youth kids playing is thinking about folding their League 1 men’s and woman’s team, because some idiot backward thinking board members think the League 1 teams should be self sufficient, meaning they should go out and get their own sponsorship and try and bring in more people to games, they don’t want to finance the team at the 60000 or so it takes to run it anymore. However, will have no problem banking over 100000 a year in the bank and just leaving it there instead of spending it on a League 1 team that actually produces players . Already this League 1 team has produced a few players that are playing in the CPL, but yet are thinking of folding their league 1 team, give me a fucken break!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, narduch said:

The Academies aren't the problem, per se.

The problem is that the 3 Canadian MLS clubs aren't graduating enough Canadian into real first team roles. And this happens because the domestic quota is too low and league discriminates against Canadians. 

But Canadians count as domestics in Canada so that can't be the only reason, right

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are we really talking about this after all these years?  The incentive to bring along academy kids is low enough already.  Added to that, if a CDN club spends the time and effort to get a kid to the cusp of making it, the rest of the league doesnt value that kid as he would have taken up an INT spot on their roster.  Its not the only reason but its another roadblock set up to protect roster spots for US kids because its a US league who's main purpose was to help american players.  

I'm not slagging the MLS acadamies, even Edmonton and Ottawa (NASL) helped and you can see that from the number of former acadamey kids in the CPL now.  Good on you!  But now there are options and the incentive for kids will be that the CPL team might get you games as a 17year old, you'll be valued as a young CDN player (as teams need to meet quotas) and this system is set up to get you a roster spot at a time when you need to be playing.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Are we really talking about this after all these years? 

...

 

Yes.  Unbelievably yes. 

And 10 years on if the MLS teams needed to fill their domestic quota with Canadians their acadamies would be churning them out.  No if and or buts.   Because they'd have to be.  They'd have to find a way to make it all work.  They'd have to make it a priority investment.  It's that simple. 

What would come out of that system I have no idea.  I'm sure there would be a great parade of mediocre players with Canadian passports filling out the rosters of the MLS teams.  Just like there is great parade of mediocre players with foreign passports filling out the rosters of the MLS teams.   But I'm sure that wider net would catch more quality fish.  Including some that would have slipped through the net otherwise.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, narduch said:

The Academies aren't the problem, per se.

The problem is that the 3 Canadian MLS clubs aren't graduating enough Canadian into real first team roles. And this happens because the domestic quota is too low and league discriminates against Canadians

The bold part I don't think is a valid excuse anymore. The way the rules are now (for the last couple years), Canadian players you bring up through your academy are domestic league wide.

I don't know exactly why the Canadian numbers are low, mostly the low quota I assume. At a club like TFC the fact that the coaching staff, GM, and President are all American might play a role. I'm sure there is still a bias, even if it is unconscious, that people are sceptical of Canadian players ability. A Canadian has to prove themselves, while players from elsewhere are given the benefit of the doubt (to a degree of course. If they are terrible, eventually they will be found out. Like Boyd doesn't see the field for TFC anymore).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MLS isn't developing quality US players with much regularity either. Green cards basically make the domestic quota irrelevant. MLS looks more and more like England light, chasing the next high priced player -but without the TV deal or quality in the lower divisions.

I don't think changing the MLS quota changes anything for us. You need to build a league that can both pay and challenge all but your elite National team talent -and even them when they are young. MLS is too big a jump for most academy players because it's grown too fast, too soon. Theo Bair could walk into MLS 2011, but MLS 2019 is just a bridge too far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

MLS isn't developing quality US players with much regularity either. Green cards basically make the domestic quota irrelevant. MLS looks more and more like England light, chasing the next high priced player -but without the TV deal or quality in the lower divisions.

I don't think changing the MLS quota changes anything for us. You need to build a league that can both pay and challenge all but your elite National team talent -and even them when they are young. MLS is too big a jump for most academy players because it's grown too fast, too soon. Theo Bair could walk into MLS 2011, but MLS 2019 is just a bridge too far.

He’s not doing terribly right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kent said:

The bold part I don't think is a valid excuse anymore. The way the rules are now (for the last couple years), Canadian players you bring up through your academy are domestic league wide.

 

MLS rules are so murky.  Are the CDN kids from US/CDN colleges automatically domestic?  How about someone like Borges who was in Europe? Edwards was still considered an INT with Chicago and got dropped because of it.  Its a very simple fix and MLS wont do it, all CDN should be domestic league wide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

MLS rules are so murky.  Are the CDN kids from US/CDN colleges automatically domestic?  How about someone like Borges who was in Europe? Edwards was still considered an INT with Chicago and got dropped because of it.  Its a very simple fix and MLS wont do it, all CDN should be domestic league wide.

But Edwards and Borges aren't homegrown players. The guys growing up in MLS academies, at least provided they don't leave and sign their first pro contract elsewhere, DO count as domestics. And I think those are the players we were just discussing MLS teams not doing enough to develop.

I do agree that the rule is still stupid, and it's not clear at all (in particular, the mysterious approved development clubs, or whatever they are called), but the rules around Canadians as domestics aren't why an Aiden Daniels or Julian Dunn don't get playing time with their MLS team. It's actually got me thinking that the 23 player rosters in the CPL are good. Why spend money to employ players you aren't going to use? It's not good for anybody.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kent said:

The bold part I don't think is a valid excuse anymore. The way the rules are now (for the last couple years), Canadian players you bring up through your academy are domestic league wide.

I don't know exactly why the Canadian numbers are low, mostly the low quota I assume. At a club like TFC the fact that the coaching staff, GM, and President are all American might play a role. I'm sure there is still a bias, even if it is unconscious, that people are sceptical of Canadian players ability. A Canadian has to prove themselves, while players from elsewhere are given the benefit of the doubt (to a degree of course. If they are terrible, eventually they will be found out. Like Boyd doesn't see the field for TFC anymore).

Sorry I disagree completely. The rule is convoluted and still discriminatory 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Kent said:

But Edwards and Borges aren't homegrown players. The guys growing up in MLS academies, at least provided they don't leave and sign their first pro contract elsewhere, DO count as domestics. And I think those are the players we were just discussing MLS teams not doing enough to develop.

 

You responded to narduch saying the league discriminates against CDNs.  Not just CDN kids already in MLS academies.  To MLS an american domestic isnt someone who came up through MLS, its any american, even a green card foreinger who played 10 years in italy is a domestic.  But only certain CDN might qualify if the right conditions are met?? Its horseshit and everyone knows it.  Any young kid out of the CPL wont be domestic, they signed first contract outside of MLS.  The MLS academies can use that discrimination as a tool to get better kids with them as opposed to the CPL, knowing the down the line it'll be easier for them to get to MLS if they come through MLS acadmies/get homegrown status.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

The MLS academies can use that discrimination as a tool to get better kids with them as opposed to the CPL, knowing the down the line it'll be easier for them to get to MLS if they come through MLS acadmies/get homegrown status.  

Another reason why the 3 MLS clubs aren't crying foul over the discrimination, it benefits them while allowing to double dip.

They either attract stronger prospects in their academies or just acquire top CPL prospects that counts as domestic on their teams only. They get the best of both world.

***And they still retain the ability to compete against US based teams for American talents and count them as domestics.

That's triple-dipping in my book

 

Edited by Ansem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

You responded to narduch saying the league discriminates against CDNs.  Not just CDN kids already in MLS academies.  To MLS an american domestic isnt someone who came up through MLS, its any american, even a green card foreinger who played 10 years in italy is a domestic.  But only certain CDN might qualify if the right conditions are met?? Its horseshit and everyone knows it.  Any young kid out of the CPL wont be domestic, they signed first contract outside of MLS.  The MLS academies can use that discrimination as a tool to get better kids with them as opposed to the CPL, knowing the down the line it'll be easier for them to get to MLS if they come through MLS acadmies/get homegrown status.  

Narduch said the following.

"The Academies aren't the problem, per se.

The problem is that the 3 Canadian MLS clubs aren't graduating enough Canadian into real first team roles. And this happens because the domestic quota is too low and league discriminates against Canadians."

When he said MLS clubs aren't graduating enough Canadians, I took that to mean graduating players from the academies. It's not like you graduate a player from a different league into your team. So in the context it looks to me like he was saying the academies aren't necessarily doing a bad job, but the first team isn't giving them opportunities, and one of the reasons is because of how the league discriminates against Canadians.

I also hate the rule, but I don't think it is a reason (anymore) why players in the academy are not getting into the first teams.

Edited by Kent

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The league DISCRIMINATES AGAINST CDN, the fact that they have made some convoluted rules to allow MORE CDN to be domestics is nothing to brag about.  It would be so simple just to clear all the BS rules and say all CDN are domestic.  Ansems point about the MLS clubs not squawking because they are triple dipping is priceless.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Edwards was still considered an INT with Chicago and got dropped because of it.

Edwards has had a number of chances. Being an INT doesn't seem to have hampered his ability to get opportunities, it's sticking on the roster that's been his problem.

For anyone who wants to read the MLS roster rules, they're right here: https://www.mlssoccer.com/league/official-rules/mls-roster-rules-and-regulations

Not sure what it has to do with CPL, however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, RS said:

Edwards has had a number of chances. Being an INT doesn't seem to have hampered his ability to get opportunities, it's sticking on the roster that's been his problem.

For anyone who wants to read the MLS roster rules, they're right here: https://www.mlssoccer.com/league/official-rules/mls-roster-rules-and-regulations

Not sure what it has to do with CPL, however.

He got dropped from the roster to make room for another INT.  If he was a domestic with Chicago then mb they would have kept him.  The gist of this was complaining that MLS doesnt bring enough youngsters through (of any nationality) and that CPL should help with the CDN side of that.  Our domestic quota puts a premium on being CDN and actually mandates that you have to play youngsters (although a tiny fraction of minutes).  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...