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Let’s not bag on the Whitecaps too much here.  The truth is that the Cavalry is a very well organized and coached team, especially defensively.  They are just a good team.  

They have been chewing up and spitting out the CPL this year and the Whitecaps were just next in line.  Nobody should be surprised if they tear through Montreal next.  Montreal barely got through a 4-5-5 York9 team yesterday, they’re not exactly playing great.

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I think of all the grading categories you could give the CPL so far.. the highest grade would be standard of play. Ironically a huge reason for that is the MLS Academies. Even if you analyze HFX v Ottawa. HFX (sorry guys) for me is the worse team in the CPL and they hung with what is a better USL team

So what I'm saying is.. thank you MLS Academies for developing these players and thank you CPL for giving them somewhere to play

Edited by SpursFlu

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29 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I think off all the grading categories you could give the CPL so far.. the highest grade would be standard of play. Ironically a huge reason for that is the MLS Academies. Even if you analyze HFX v Ottawa. HFX (sorry guys) for me is the worse team in the CPL and they hung with what is a better USL team

So what I'm saying is.. thank you MLS Academies for developing these players and thank you CPL for giving them somewhere to play

This was my take when reading Duane's rant as well. How does pointing out that the Whitecaps developed a bunch of good players prove that they're not good at developing players? What sort of logic is that? 

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1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

This was my take when reading Duane's rant as well. How does pointing out that the Whitecaps developed a bunch of good players prove that they're not good at developing players? What sort of logic is that? 

I'm read it as an accusation of underachieving potential.  Perhaps trying to emphasize a lack of patience or insight in the players who are by their current play suggesting they should never have been discarded from the 'Caps development program?  Players who will now never, ever, really achieve what they might have because they've missed the most vital years of their development, again, because the 'Caps develpment programs didn't feel they where worth the investment and cast them aside for other development opportunities.  

And I also believe it's being asked who, exactly, were or are those other development opportunities.  

Because as it stands, those other development opportunities aren't anywhere near close enough to being able to bring the 'Caps into the next round of the Vs Cup in spite of the massive financial advantages of their organization.  It's not as they say, a good look.          

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47 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

I'm read it as an accusation of underachieving potential.  Perhaps trying to emphasize a lack of patience or insight in the players who are by their current play suggesting they should never have been discarded from the 'Caps development program?  Players who will now never, ever, really achieve what they might have because they've missed the most vital years of their development, again, because the 'Caps develpment programs didn't feel they where worth the investment and cast them aside for other development opportunities.  

 And I also believe it's being asked who, exactly, were or are those other development opportunities.  

Because as it stands, those other development opportunities aren't anywhere near close enough to being able to bring the 'Caps into the next round of the Vs Cup in spite of the massive financial advantages of their organization.  It's not as they say, a good look.          

That's all a hell of a leap for me. Yes, the 'Caps are in the dumps right now, but getting beat by a solid team that has a few of your past academy players isn't enough to assume all of that. 

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Hell of a leap?

A three month old Cavalry with 10% of the 'Caps player budget is on to the next round of Vs Cup whilst a last place 10 year old MLS ' side's greatest claim to fame is a 16 year old player they picked up 2 years ago from Edmonton?

Oh, go on.  Tell us another.

 

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On 7/18/2019 at 11:43 PM, SpursFlu said:

I get TSN doesnt have to fall head over heels for CPL but acting as if it doesn't exist just proves the conspiracy theories or that there is unnecessary politics at play

 

Instead they play ridiculous American talking head sportatainment shows yammering on about anything but sport and perpetuating American political angst and demographic stereotypes thru professional sports. They should be ashamed of themselves 

 

Why not instead produce a simple 30 minute magazine style show featuring all things Canadian soccer covering MLS, CPL, Canadians abroad. Do the same for Basketball or other sports

Like others have pointed out, I wouldn’t put it in the realm of conspiracy when it comes to TSN not producing a show. However, I would think it’s a conspiracy theory if TSN didn’t include the Voyageurs Cup games that involved both CPL/MLS clubs during SportsCentre, so I ask, were there highlights Thursday morning? 

Edit: Just checked the website and looks like they did....but  I didn't like the guy's tone when he kept pronouncing "Cavalry" like it was the most awkward thing to say in his life....but it's something at the very least.

Edited by Macksam

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I think it is a bit harsh to totally rag on VWC for their development structure, as developing players from their early teens into the pros is incredibly difficult in any sport. They have definitely made the effort and had Whitecaps II for a bit there. I think the issue comes on pulling the trigger on actually entrusting first team minutes.

I think that they and TFC both (do not pay any attention to the Impact to be able to comment) have a tendency to discard some of their academy developed or signed talent for fringe MLS talent players from the US or beyond. This is the frustrating part to me. Why did the soon to be released Terrance Boyd get minutes at all when TFC had Hamilton or other young Canadian attacking options? Why did VWC sign a mediocre over 30's defender from Switzerland (Scott Sutter) when I am sure their was a young Canadian who could play the role (Kadin Chung)? The argument is probably that they are proven players, but proven mediocre or worse does not justify not giving them minutes. This is the development gap and the CPL will hopefully close it, as many Canadians will now have proven pro minutes and game tape. 

The other aspect of the problem, which is general to all sports, are the clear issues in development and bias/socioeconomic factors. I am more familiar with hockey, as a player, coach, and scout, but certain points should apply to both. Hockey in Canada is incredibly inefficient at developing players. Firstly, early streaming leads young kids who have developed physically quicker (size bias) to get greater attention. The early streaming can also just leave kids, who have more talent behind, and they never catch up. The best player I grew up playing with/against, NHL star Jamie Benn, would never have been considered a top 10 player in his age bracket on the island until he was 17-18. This is primarily because he was small. Secondly, wealth is also a factor. The kids who can afford the fancy camps and academies are more likely. The kid who needs a high school job, not so much. Not easy issue to fix, but hopefully having the CPL and a league 1 BC will at least give more chances to be seen. 

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17 hours ago, RS said:

FC Dallas.

So 1

Its easy to sit on the sidelines and make all these demands but like for instance. I was really excited to see Theo Bair get a run of games but after seeing Theo Bair get a run of games im like holy crap, can we please get some new players so Theo Bair doesn't again this year get a run of games 

 

Not hating but it's clear he's not ready to be a starter in the MLS

Edited by SpursFlu

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5 hours ago, Ansem said:

Apart from other stuff there, not overly substantial, there's this:

"And, of course, the clubs that are in, they're our partners so they have a say in who comes in -- which again I think is very unique but it is unique to the sports world more than anything else. They're not franchises either. These people are partners. When they come in, they then get a say and get a seat a say and get a seat at the table -- which is a unique business versus others that you see out there."

Of course this will be ignored as soon as some guy in Prince George or Cornerbrook says "those franchises sure are expensive!"

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3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Apart from other stuff there, not overly substantial, there's this:

"And, of course, the clubs that are in, they're our partners so they have a say in who comes in -- which again I think is very unique but it is unique to the sports world more than anything else. They're not franchises either. These people are partners. When they come in, they then get a say and get a seat a say and get a seat at the table -- which is a unique business versus others that you see out there."

Of course this will be ignored as soon as some guy in Prince George or Cornerbrook says "those franchises sure are expensive!"

Well ****, he just had to go and say the word "franchises".  Now we'll never hear the end of it.

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Thanks for your thoughts KTF.  This is an important discussion and complex topic.  Due to the MLS, interest in football/soccer in North America is growing.  California and Florida have become quite strong development centres.  Canada, still has a long way to go.  While I'd like to suggest that the geography and weather in Canada play a large role in its lack of performance on the world stage, these challenges can be overcome with the right development programs (just look at Iceland).  Iceland's success is worthy of analysis and evaluation.  There's things to be learned.  However, we don't have to go that far.  As you've noted, Canada's hockey culture/programs are a perfect place to start. Good sport programs start with the sport capturing the imagination and passion of a child (a kid wants to be "Wayne Gretsky" or "Sydney Crosby"). If a development program can keep the interest of the child with support, coaching, technical training, good competition and direction, the child's passion/commitment and potential can be maximized.  My son Scott had passion and commitment for the game.  He was fortunate to have some great coaches and enough success in Calgary to "keep the fire burning."  When he was lucky enough to have the opportunity to continue his development in Europe, we supported the opportunity.  What's important to recognize is that at that point (he was 18), without the opportunity to go to Europe, Scott would not have continued meaningful development.  The Canadian system had almost no development options for Scott (he wasn't at a point in his development that the options available recognized his potential).  Now, four (4) seasons later, with training in Germany and Austria, maybe it will? What did the German and Austrian systems see in Scott that the Canadian system failed to see?  Had we been unable to find options in Europe the likelihood of Scott's potential being fully developed would have been seriously impaired. Of course, four (4) years ago, the CPL didn't exist.  If the CPL continues to succeed, this necessarily improves the athlete development landscape.  I applaud the efforts and success of the Calgary Cavalry owners ... it's an exciting venue and it appears that they've been able to attract solid corporate sponsorship and a decent fan base.

Edited by Ian Kennedy
improvements

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What a load of **** please, most of you guys out hear are what they call Monday morning quarter backs , how many on here have actually been involved in the grass roots game here in Canada ? How many have actually coached youth teams , sat in youth club board meetings? Most of these people running this youth clubs where the majority of kids come from are a fucken joke. When it comes to TFC I know for a fact that youth clubs from the Toronto area telling kids not to sign with TFC academy so that they could keep the kids with them so they could win championship s and trophies for their clubs. It’s only been that past few years that this has been changing. So to sit there and keep blaming these Canadian MLS clubs blah fucken blah blah , give me a break. Just remember how ****** up a country these MLS youth academies came into being? How many years of youth soccer having the most youth participants even more than bloody hockey, think about that , hockey in CANADA! But yet so many years of utter futility, this is the landscape these MLS academies came into when they were created less than 10 years ago. Of course even an idiot will agree you add more pro academies with hopefully all the CPL teams eventually started them and our chances of created more pro players will increase substantially. But let’s blame the ****** up youth system that controlled youth soccer development for so so many years before we blame the MLS academies just because they play in the bad old American League , please !!

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Just to add to my rant, I know for a fact that a big youth soccer club with over 4000 youth kids playing is thinking about folding their League 1 men’s and woman’s team, because some idiot backward thinking board members think the League 1 teams should be self sufficient, meaning they should go out and get their own sponsorship and try and bring in more people to games, they don’t want to finance the team at the 60000 or so it takes to run it anymore. However, will have no problem banking over 100000 a year in the bank and just leaving it there instead of spending it on a League 1 team that actually produces players . Already this League 1 team has produced a few players that are playing in the CPL, but yet are thinking of folding their league 1 team, give me a fucken break!

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7 minutes ago, narduch said:

The Academies aren't the problem, per se.

The problem is that the 3 Canadian MLS clubs aren't graduating enough Canadian into real first team roles. And this happens because the domestic quota is too low and league discriminates against Canadians. 

But Canadians count as domestics in Canada so that can't be the only reason, right

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Are we really talking about this after all these years?  The incentive to bring along academy kids is low enough already.  Added to that, if a CDN club spends the time and effort to get a kid to the cusp of making it, the rest of the league doesnt value that kid as he would have taken up an INT spot on their roster.  Its not the only reason but its another roadblock set up to protect roster spots for US kids because its a US league who's main purpose was to help american players.  

I'm not slagging the MLS acadamies, even Edmonton and Ottawa (NASL) helped and you can see that from the number of former acadamey kids in the CPL now.  Good on you!  But now there are options and the incentive for kids will be that the CPL team might get you games as a 17year old, you'll be valued as a young CDN player (as teams need to meet quotas) and this system is set up to get you a roster spot at a time when you need to be playing.  

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Are we really talking about this after all these years? 

...

 

Yes.  Unbelievably yes. 

And 10 years on if the MLS teams needed to fill their domestic quota with Canadians their acadamies would be churning them out.  No if and or buts.   Because they'd have to be.  They'd have to find a way to make it all work.  They'd have to make it a priority investment.  It's that simple. 

What would come out of that system I have no idea.  I'm sure there would be a great parade of mediocre players with Canadian passports filling out the rosters of the MLS teams.  Just like there is great parade of mediocre players with foreign passports filling out the rosters of the MLS teams.   But I'm sure that wider net would catch more quality fish.  Including some that would have slipped through the net otherwise.    

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17 hours ago, narduch said:

The Academies aren't the problem, per se.

The problem is that the 3 Canadian MLS clubs aren't graduating enough Canadian into real first team roles. And this happens because the domestic quota is too low and league discriminates against Canadians

The bold part I don't think is a valid excuse anymore. The way the rules are now (for the last couple years), Canadian players you bring up through your academy are domestic league wide.

I don't know exactly why the Canadian numbers are low, mostly the low quota I assume. At a club like TFC the fact that the coaching staff, GM, and President are all American might play a role. I'm sure there is still a bias, even if it is unconscious, that people are sceptical of Canadian players ability. A Canadian has to prove themselves, while players from elsewhere are given the benefit of the doubt (to a degree of course. If they are terrible, eventually they will be found out. Like Boyd doesn't see the field for TFC anymore).

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MLS isn't developing quality US players with much regularity either. Green cards basically make the domestic quota irrelevant. MLS looks more and more like England light, chasing the next high priced player -but without the TV deal or quality in the lower divisions.

I don't think changing the MLS quota changes anything for us. You need to build a league that can both pay and challenge all but your elite National team talent -and even them when they are young. MLS is too big a jump for most academy players because it's grown too fast, too soon. Theo Bair could walk into MLS 2011, but MLS 2019 is just a bridge too far.

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50 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

MLS isn't developing quality US players with much regularity either. Green cards basically make the domestic quota irrelevant. MLS looks more and more like England light, chasing the next high priced player -but without the TV deal or quality in the lower divisions.

I don't think changing the MLS quota changes anything for us. You need to build a league that can both pay and challenge all but your elite National team talent -and even them when they are young. MLS is too big a jump for most academy players because it's grown too fast, too soon. Theo Bair could walk into MLS 2011, but MLS 2019 is just a bridge too far.

He’s not doing terribly right now.

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1 hour ago, Kent said:

The bold part I don't think is a valid excuse anymore. The way the rules are now (for the last couple years), Canadian players you bring up through your academy are domestic league wide.

 

MLS rules are so murky.  Are the CDN kids from US/CDN colleges automatically domestic?  How about someone like Borges who was in Europe? Edwards was still considered an INT with Chicago and got dropped because of it.  Its a very simple fix and MLS wont do it, all CDN should be domestic league wide.

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