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Talking about reffing (and to stop my diving ranting, since I realise common sense takes a while to sink in), did anyone see the new rules for next season approved by the International Board?

-all penalties die after being shot, like in penalty shoot-outs. No rebounds, no worries about players encroaching on the box. It is either in, or it is a goal kick.

-keepers need not have both feet on the line for penalties, one is enough.

-no goal can be valid if a hand or arm assisted in it being made, even in the build up, whether deliberate or not.

-subs offs can leave the field anywhere on the pitch and walk around, they are not obliged to go to where the new player is on the centre line.

-I also heard they were considering allowing a goal kick to be received inside the box, while attackers had to remain outside it until it was taken. But I can't confirm this. In fact I am not 100% on the first point either, I think it is being tested.

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15 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

A con man never ruined a career. You're an idiot defending goonery as if a physical attack, unjustified, was as bad as an unjustified fall. They are not comparable, obviously. Not even our judicial system treats them the same. 

Your argument is basically the same as when people say, hey, my wife is clumsy, she just falls over all the time. That's why she has a black eye. And my kid too, what a clutz.

Not an arguement man it happens all the time. Players are also told to kick other players all the time...I've had African, South American, and North American managers all show different times and ways to let our opponent know they're too close. All I was saying is a player going to ground easy is asking to be kicked more. Pure talent will get you kicked, then you add frustration from an opponent that feels you play for fouls, he's now more motivated to get top value for his investment. "Physical attacks" are part of the game, just as diving is part of the game. Both coached in different parts of the world. Pick your poison 

 

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24 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Talking about reffing (and to stop my diving ranting, since I realise common sense takes a while to sink in), did anyone see the new rules for next season approved by the International Board?

-all penalties die after being shot, like in penalty shoot-outs. No rebounds, no worries about players encroaching on the box. It is either in, or it is a goal kick.

-keepers need not have both feet on the line for penalties, one is enough.

-no goal can be valid if a hand or arm assisted in it being made, even in the build up, whether deliberate or not.

-subs offs can leave the field anywhere on the pitch and walk around, they are not obliged to go to where the new player is on the centre line.

-I also heard they were considering allowing a goal kick to be received inside the box, while attackers had to remain outside it until it was taken. But I can't confirm this. In fact I am not 100% on the first point either, I think it is being tested.

According to my understanding, the first one (saved/missed penalties result in goal kick) is not happening. I have read articles on the new rule changes and haven't heard that one.

As for subbing off, it's not just that they can leave the field anywhere, they MUST leave the field at the closest touchline.

Also, the ball hitting the ref is going to result in a drop ball, and attacking players have to be a meter away from a defensive wall on free kicks.

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1 minute ago, KW519 said:

Not an arguement man it happens all the time. Players are also told to kick other players all the time...I've had African, South American, and North American managers all show different times and ways to let our opponent know they're too close. All I was saying is a player going to ground easy is asking to be kicked more. Pure talent will get you kicked, then you add frustration from an opponent that feels you play for fouls, he's now more motivated to get top value for his investment. "Physical attacks" are part of the game, just as diving is part of the game. Both coached in different parts of the world. Pick your poison 

 

This is a vicious cycle. A talented player gets fouled all the time. If he stays on his feet he is usually penalized for it. Refs rarely play advantage and then retroactively give a yellow after the play has stopped, even though it's their duty to do so. Also if a player tries to stay up but has their balance or timing thrown off enough that they can't take proper advantage, they lose the ball and are effectively punished for not going to the ground.

So this talented player learns that they should go to the ground when they are fouled, even if the contact isn't that much. So now what you are describing is a player that thinks the talented player goes down too easy, so he should kick him harder, which gives the player more motivation to go down easy to avoid injury.

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8 hours ago, KW519 said:

Does this Clanachan have any background in football? 

Scottie Bowman.  9 Stanley Cup rings, with three different teams, over 3 decades.  NINE.

Exactly 0 NHL games as a player. Allow me to bold that.  ZERO.

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32 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

Scottie Bowman.  9 Stanley Cup rings, with three different teams, over 3 decades.  NINE.

Exactly 0 NHL games as a player. Allow me to bold that.  ZERO.

Wouldn’t a more apt example be any of the commissioners of the NHL, NBA or NFL? None have had an ex-player as far as I know, most are lawyers.

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4 hours ago, dsqpr said:

VISIBLE CLOCK!

How is it possible that in 2019, there is still no consensus on when a time-limited football match actually ends? Utter madness.

There are certain stoppages that are not considered part of the game. Identify them explicitly and stop the DIGITAL clock (yes, we have those now!) when they occur: when a player is down, when a goal is scored (so no need for the unsightly grabbing for the ball), when the referee deems it is taking too long to put the ball back into play, to name but three.

There are other tweaks that could be made but that would be an excellent start. I would LOVE for CPL to be world leaders on ending this madness.

Yup totally agree in terms of a visible clock and the refs stopping the time during certain times of the game especially after a goal is scored and also when a player goes down injured, when a player goes down injured the visible clock should be stopped this would stop players trying to kill time while going down faking an injury. Also during substitutions stop the clock and you will not get guys taking their time getting off the field, I would truly love it if a league like the CPL was able to try these kind of changes.

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9 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

I think he’s more referencing the guy who barely gets touched in the lower body and then rolls around grabbing his face waiting for the penalty.  Then miraculously with some spray he’s 100%.  

That kind of thing grated on a lot of people.  

RANT ALERT.

If you want to go about ruining 89 minutes of spectacular, awe inspiring football, the sort of physical, technical and tactical contest that converts the non believers into footie fans then there is no better way to undo the efforts of 21 players and 3 officials then rewarding one royal twat for being a royal twat. 

You want to call that "immature" you go right the fu'k ahead.  Load of crap.  I'm going to call it common sense. 

I have to ask what year some of the people on here are living in?  1976?  1986? 

For fu'ks sake, someone, anyone, bring to me a rule change over the last 25 years which wasn't targeted at the time wasters and the divers and all the other fuk-nuts who continue to offend this sport that is God's Gift to human kind.  And why that is?  It isn't because collectively we think it's the thugs who are ruining football. Oh no, we got them sorted out a loooong time ago.  Nah, nah, nah.  It's those other twats we really need to be worried about. 

So here's to those players who, in 2019, go about the business of playing in the Canadian Style.  Not  being a-feared to sell a foul to the ref but also not being ashamed to carry on throught the physical challenges of this sport when the easist answer is to cry and moan and go on about how they were hard done by.  To play for their team mates and their fans and not to the ref.  THAT, is too big of a part of what makes this The Beautiful Game, to dismiss. 

Thanks for reading.  Cheers.     

 

 

 

  

 

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29 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Wouldn’t a more apt example be any of the commissioners of the NHL, NBA or NFL? None have had an ex-player as far as I know, most are lawyers.

No, I don't think so.  Not in this context. 

Question raised, as it seemed to me by KW519, was whether Clanahan and his comments were qualified , disqualified, or should be viewed in the context of his personal experience or lack thereof, as a professional player,  As to whether his views of certain matters where informed, or as importantly, realistic, based upon that. 

I, in my response, am suggesting that professional playing experience doesn't necesarrily really matter.  And am using for my argument the greatest coach in the history of the NHL, who seems to have been able to  figure it all out over a period spanning 30+ years during 3 very different and distictive styles of play in North American hockey.  All  that while having not 1 second of pro hockey playing time under his belt. . 

And Bowman isn't the exception proving the rule.  He's just one of many across many sporting fields.  But to be clear I'm not suggesting Clanahan is some footballing idiot savant. Sure, he might be talking ****.  I'm just suggesting that suggesting his opinnions should have less merit because he never played professional football is sorta lazy.   

  

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What difference does it make if he played at a high level?  He is front office, he is worried about how the game looks, and how to get asses on seats and eyes on screens.  It sounds like he understands the game, still plays and is a huge fan..thats good enough for me.  He needs way more business savy than soccer skill to make this work. 

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Posted (edited)

So 20 days away...Which game do you guys think will have a higher attendance: York 9 vs Forge or TFC vs Timbres?

Key factors: TFC's stadium size, the "free tickets" for Forge-York 9, historic vs standard league game

Edited by matty

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ams1984 said:

I get what you are saying, but I don’t like the idea personally. It’s too NFLish. 

Don't forget CFL-ish. And NBA-ish. And NHL-ish. And AHL-ish. And UFC-ish. And every-other-timed-sport-in-the-world-ish!

Time (no pun intended) to put an end to "Fergie time". Everybody should know when a match is over. It should not be the ref's little secret, to be arbitrarily manipulated on his whim.

Edited by dsqpr

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10 hours ago, KW519 said:

Not an arguement man it happens all the time. Players are also told to kick other players all the time...I've had African, South American, and North American managers all show different times and ways to let our opponent know they're too close. All I was saying is a player going to ground easy is asking to be kicked more. Pure talent will get you kicked, then you add frustration from an opponent that feels you play for fouls, he's now more motivated to get top value for his investment. "Physical attacks" are part of the game, just as diving is part of the game. Both coached in different parts of the world. Pick your poison 

You've had coaches who have coached kicking talent and injurying it, you are a real gem. 

I guess that if it hadn't been for those disrespecting Mr Miyagi and the lousy refs in that tournament, the whole plot of Karate Kid would have failed.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Kent said:

According to my understanding, the first one (saved/missed penalties result in goal kick) is not happening. I have read articles on the new rule changes and haven't heard that one.

As for subbing off, it's not just that they can leave the field anywhere, they MUST leave the field at the closest touchline.

Also, the ball hitting the ref is going to result in a drop ball, and attacking players have to be a meter away from a defensive wall on free kicks.

Here's the summary of the circular. You are right about the penalty rule. 

http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/786/111531_110319_IFAB_LoG_at_a_Glance.pdf

One that I do not agree with is restricting having one of your players within a metre of the wall, as it says there is no tactical justification for it. I don't agree, that is clearly incorrect: teams put a player on the end of a wall to interfere with the keeper's vision, they then duck or separate at the last minute. What most irks me is that they say there is no tactical reason to do this. It seems the rule is just to make the ref's work easier.

The rest seem fine and some are interesting, like allowing all free kicks in the area to be received anywhere, with opposing players staying out of the box.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, 1996 said:

Yup totally agree in terms of a visible clock and the refs stopping the time during certain times of the game especially after a goal is scored and also when a player goes down injured, when a player goes down injured the visible clock should be stopped this would stop players trying to kill time while going down faking an injury. Also during substitutions stop the clock and you will not get guys taking their time getting off the field, I would truly love it if a league like the CPL was able to try these kind of changes.

There is a debate going on about clocking the extra time, I have heard this in Spain.

Then another idea about clocking the last few minutes of a match, say 5, to more strictly watch time wasting in the critical period.

If FIFA can carefully lay out and distinguish water timeouts in hot games, and they are added on strictly to the end, they could do this here as well. We also see VAR time being added, even in first half. 

But going back to clocking extra time. I have heard, as a reference,  half a minute per change, and half a minute per goal celebration. Injury time, the time the medics are on the pitch and the player needs to leave it. Take all that, add it strictly, and clock it strictly in extra time, stopping  for goal kicks and balls leaving the field, until the clock runs out. If they do not want to show this clock, as the ref still has prerogative to interpret added time, fine, but at least have the ref do it. 

The new rule making players leave the pitch at the closest touchline in part reduces this time wasting.

In last week's Villareal-Barça, which ended 4-4, it was 4-2 at minute 90 and the ref added 3 minutes. There had been six goals, all celebrated except maybe Villareal's first (they were then down 1-2). And six changes. The reason this was commented was because Barça still tied it in the 3 remaining, but that 3 really should have been at least 5.

Clearly, a match that is resolved may not need strict clocking, if it is 3-0, and a minute or two of the extra left, you could call it. Also for those home and away where one team needs many goals to win the tie. So in certain circumstances, you could waive the extra time, but if a team is within 2 goals, definitely not. We are coming up to the 20th anniversary of Manchester United's Champions win vs. Bayern, with goals at 90+ half a minute, and 90 plus 2.30 or similar, if I recall correctly.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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8 hours ago, Cheeta said:

No, I don't think so.  Not in this context. 

Question raised, as it seemed to me by KW519, was whether Clanahan and his comments were qualified , disqualified, or should be viewed in the context of his personal experience or lack thereof, as a professional player,  As to whether his views of certain matters where informed, or as importantly, realistic, based upon that. 

I, in my response, am suggesting that professional playing experience doesn't necesarrily really matter.  And am using for my argument the greatest coach in the history of the NHL, who seems to have been able to  figure it all out over a period spanning 30+ years during 3 very different and distictive styles of play in North American hockey.  All  that while having not 1 second of pro hockey playing time under his belt. . 

And Bowman isn't the exception proving the rule.  He's just one of many across many sporting fields.  But to be clear I'm not suggesting Clanahan is some footballing idiot savant. Sure, he might be talking ****.  I'm just suggesting that suggesting his opinnions should have less merit because he never played professional football is sorta lazy.   

 

I am more concerned about our commissioner stating he is going to try to condition the reffing with a particular slant, when there is something called FIFA rules, and they reffing committtee should be competent to interpret them properly, in the benefit of the game. 

Not have a guy with NO experience, who has not played at any level and whose experience is slanted, try to manipulate the character of the league as the game itself is played, on the pitch (and clearly I am in favour of Canadian rules, that manipulation is fine).

In any case, what is going to happen in a league with salary limitations, and roster restrictions, is that a star will get his leg stomped on to keep Clanachan and his buddies happy, and the league will lose him, and they won't be able to replace him. And results will be affected by this. Clubs will complain about that, and eventually he or the refs will be forced to back down and let the refs protect players with the ball and encourage clean aggressive tackling with the ball always in mind so that the talent can indeed flourish on the pitch.

Otherwise, we'll see our best players having a second thought, to protect their careers, and decide to make a go of it overseas after all.

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4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I am more concerned about our commissioner stating he is going to try to condition the reffing with a particular slant, when there is something called FIFA rules...

Like Law 12, the one that outlaws simulation and other unsportsmanlike conduct?  ;)

Canadian culture, IMO, is built on a foundation of fair play. Faking injuries and diving are antithetical to that general consensus even if a significant minority admires those who cheat in this way.

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Posted (edited)

Honestly, I have no idea how getting tough on the simulation and ******** we see somehow equates to giving the green light for glorified goons to hack the talent players until they bleed.  The two are simply not the same thing.  Full stop.  You can absolutely continue to protect skilled players while punishing flagrant instances of diving, cheating and simulation.  The two things are in no way mutually exclusive. 

And, yes, the laws of the game currently have provisions in place to address this.  But that doesn't change the fact that it is still an unfortunate part of the game that (for some inexplicable reason) quite obviously gets ignored by many refs.  Telling CPL refs to make sure they pay attention to it is absolutely appropriate for the CPL commish to do IMO.  Everyone on this site has seen CONCACAF flopping and diving wreck a game and screw us over - all while (often Central American) refs turn a blind eye to it - or worse, allow it to dictate a game by awarding unwarranted free kicks.  Expunging that ******** from the game is something I welcome. 

Edited by dyslexic nam

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Posted (edited)

A large portion of the blame absolutely falls on the referees who have allowed the game to get to this stage.

We should all be able to agree on two points:

1) divers should be punished 

2) thugs should be punished

End of story.  Both are equally annoying but one has been policed much better.  There are no more Vinnie Jones playing serious football but there are divers at every turn.  

I do think the refs have done a disservice to the sport by calling their own bastardized version of the game rather than by the book.  For example, if you allow play for an advantage give the player a card after the play stops (if warranted).  This is rarely done.  Normal fouls in the box are never called either - this encourages diving.  If it’s a foul at the centre circle it’s a foul in the box.  A player shouldn’t have to go down like they’ve been shot to get a penalty.

But this is the world subjective refereeing has created.  It’s 2019 it shouldn’t happen .. let’s call the game by the book and have video ready to break it down if needed.  No more ********.  And if a dive isn’t called in the game and the player gets away with it he has cheated the sport and league - throw the book at them.  If they dove it should be a minimum 2 game suspension. And who cares if it’s your star player? This shouldn’t be like MLS.

All players equal, all calls equal.

Edited by Keegan

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10 minutes ago, Keegan said:

I do think the refs have done a disservice to the sport by calling their own bastardized version of the game rather than by the book.  For example, if you allow play for an advantage give the player a card after the play stops (if warranted).  This is rarely done.  Normal fouls in the box are never called either - this encourages diving.  If it’s a foul at the centre circle it’s a foul in the box.  A player shouldn’t have to go down like they’ve been shot to get a penalty.

The area where I see the biggest impact of this is the amount of clutching and grabbing defenders are now permitted to do on attacking players when corner kicks or free kicks put a ball into the box.  It is absolutely against the laws of the game, yet you regularly see defenders latched onto attackers, grabbing their arms or shirt and holding them in place, or holding them down from a header.

They do it because the refs let it happen - so of course it takes place  THAT is something that is antithetical to the beautiful game, yet because refs are being subjective about how they apply the laws, things get really wonky in terms of enforcement.  And what is the end result?  Strikers end up theatrically throwing themselves to the ground because it is the only way some refs seem willing to give a penalty.   

Different case than punishing simulation, obviously, but it is another example of things getting screwed up as refs have moved away from enforcing the letter of the Laws.  And like the comments on simulation, it is an area where I think it would be appropriate for the commish to indicate that he expects the Laws to be enforced as written. 

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1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

The area where I see the biggest impact of this is the amount of clutching and grabbing defenders are now permitted to do on attacking players when corner kicks or free kicks put a ball into the box.  It is absolutely against the laws of the game, yet you regularly see defenders latched onto attackers, grabbing their arms or shirt and holding them in place, or holding them down from a header.

They do it because the refs let it happen - so of course it takes place  THAT is something that is antithetical to the beautiful game, yet because refs are being subjective about how they apply the laws, things get really wonky in terms of enforcement.  And what is the end result?  Strikers end up theatrically throwing themselves to the ground because it is the only way some refs seem willing to give a penalty.   

Different case than punishing simulation, obviously, but it is another example of things getting screwed up as refs have moved away from enforcing the letter of the Laws.  And like the comments on simulation, it is an area where I think it would be appropriate for the commish to indicate that he expects the Laws to be enforced as written. 

Related to this, I have never seen so many elbows and arms out and into faces on high balls in the years I have watched the game. This has become standard, and since a flailing arm seems and looks natural when a player jumps, it gets ignored as well. It is extremely dirty however, apart from being damn dangerous. 

I am all for a strong physical game, I hate the way Spanish refs don't allow players jumping for a high ball and putting bodies into it. So I am not in favour of over-calling hard play. There is a difference, however, when it comes to feet, ankles, shins, knees. These are the key instruments of a footballers profession. If you are hurt here, you really cannot play. It is as bad as a single finger on a shooting hand of a basketball player, it can put you out. 

Fortunately, refs are increasingly guided by standardised norms that do try to regulate calls in a way that is consistent. True, some football cultures are more physical, and lower divisions get away with garbage because there is no tv or reporters caring. 

But I am not one to at all agree that embellishment is the worst thing about the game, and really do not care if someone who is not a fan anyways cites it. Who cares, that is their problem, they probably are a long way from a basic understanding anyways, and you can't change the game just for them. Let them learn. 

This sort of reminds me of that Norm MacDonald sketch about Bill Cosby, where he mentions his friend who says the worst thing about it is the hypocrisy. Well no, not the embellishment, and not the hypocrisy: 

 

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Curious how many people watch MLS here? Not much diving in that league...but a lot of play stoppages because of the high rate of 50-50 challenges and balls going out of play because of poor passes/decision making but mostly because of the general the style of play being what I would call "rushed".

So pick your poison. 

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