CPL General

[Initial B]

I'm not saying protecting themselves, its more to give them a chance at competing at their level. Getting stomped by the MLS and Liga MX teams will not do anyone any good (those leagues don't play their second-stringers in CCL play anymore). I'd rather see them prove themselves in the CL and if they consistently win the CL, then they should be given a spot in the CCL.

Also, there will be a lot less fixture congestion for the CPL clubs than the MLS clubs at that time of year. MLS teams will be in the playoffs while the CPL will finish their season before the CL Final.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Initial B

[zen]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

I never understood this belief of having to protect our CPL champions like they were made of glass or something. Leagues sending their champions isn't the exception, it's the norm except for the Caribbeans. I refuse to accept that our teams would do any worse than some of the CFU clubs who's been there so far.

Wouldn't players and coach learn much faster by being exposed to the highest level sooner rather than later so they can adjust and improve faster?

Our clubs are facing MLS level teams in the Canadian Championship as of this year, no? So if we are to compete against the "2nd best" league in CONCACAF, why can't we be thrown in there with other Central America and CFU clubs?

That logic makes no sense to me. The CSA is absolutely justified to request a CCL spot from the get go. If all we get is CL so be it. Hard not to think that the 2020 CCL format won't be changed to reflect the arrival of a new league.

That's a strawman's argument. I haven't read in any previous post that the reason for putting the CPL champion in the Concacaf League is to protect them. 

[zen]

56 minutes ago, Alex D said:

Everyone remembers how embarassing Montreal were when they participated as an USL1 team right?

Yeah when no Mexican team gave a shit about the competition. Now, that MLS is getting to their level they actually care. Think of it, I'd love to see that Montreal team get spanked about by Tigres, just what's going to happen to CPL teams for the next 20 years.

Voyageurs cup should always have a spot to Concacaf Champions League seeing as we will always have Division 1 teams playing in different leagues. Any second or third spot can go to the CPL Champions, runners-up etc.

Edited February 9, 2019 by zen

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, Initial B said:

I'm not saying protecting themselves, its more to give them a chance at competing at their level. Getting stomped by the MLS and Liga MX teams will not do anyone any good (those leagues don't play their second-stringers in CCL play anymore). I'd rather see them prove themselves in the CL and if they consistently win the CL, then they should be given a spot in the CCL.

Also, there will be a lot less fixture congestion for the CPL clubs than the MLS clubs at that time of year. MLS teams will be in the playoffs while the CPL will finish their season before the CL Final.

We'll find out if they get "stomped" by MLS teams this May. As for Liga MX clubs, they dominate everyone (few exceptions aside) so CPL would be in the same boat as Guatemala or Salvador.

Second-Stringer? Problem is that CONCACAF sanctioned CPL as Division 1, so you see the predicament of denying them a spot when the other D1s (except Caribbeans) have it. Besides, the league made it their goal to get it, I think that's a great initiative on their part which would definitely elevate the importance of the CPL Cup.

As for scheduling, if CONCACAF wants to elevate their club competition, they really need to go back to doing their own thing and not tiptoeing around what MLS is doing or how they are scheduling. Group stage with knockout was always the best format.

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

You mean the year when they beat MLS TFC and survived the group stage finishing 2nd with Atlante (Mexico), better than Olimpia (Honduras) and Joe Public (Trinidad)?

Except they never beat TFC.  They lost and drew, but beat the USL Whitecaps.  And the Voyagers Cup will give the CPL teams a chance to play a higher caliber of opposition, which if they can beat will result in them getting to the CL.  Prove it in the Voyagers Cup.

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

Leagues sending their champions isn't the exception, it's the norm except for the Caribbeans.

Countries sending their best teams is the norm, which is usually determined by the league.  It just so happens that in Canada our highest caliber teams are in a different league and that there's still a very valid mechanism for them to be eligible for the CL.

[Ams1984]

I’m trying to watch the Leafs vs the Habs, I know I’m supposed to care about this... but I can’t stop thinking about the CPL! Let’s go April... get here already. 

[matty]

3 hours ago, zen said:

That's a strawman's argument. I haven't read in any previous post that the reason for putting the CPL champion in the Concacaf League is to protect them. 

i've seen it on facebook a few times. there are people who think losing in that competition would do horrific damage to the cpl brand.

Edited February 10, 2019 by matty

[Initial B]

27 minutes ago, Ansem said:

We'll find out if they get "stomped" by MLS teams this May. As for Liga MX clubs, they dominate everyone (few exceptions aside) so CPL would be in the same boat as Guatemala or Salvador.

Second-Stringer? Problem is that CONCACAF sanctioned CPL as Division 1, so you see the predicament of denying them a spot when the other D1s (except Caribbeans) have it. Besides, the league made it their goal to get it, I think that's a great initiative on their part which would definitely elevate the importance of the CPL Cup.

As for scheduling, if CONCACAF wants to elevate their club competition, they really need to go back to doing their own thing and not tiptoeing around what MLS is doing or how they are scheduling. Group stage with knockout was always the best format.

By second-string, I meant the type of players that the Liga MX and MLS teams used to play in the competition. I never meant to imply that CPL was second-string.

I agree with you about switching the format, I'd like to see the format revised with a 32 team group stage from March to May. Then the knockout stages would begin with round of 16 matchups in July and ending with the Finals at the beginning of October. Canada should get 3 spots in that format (same as Costa Rica)

[Initial B]

15 minutes ago, matty said:

i've seen it on facebook a few times. there are people who think losing in that competition would do horrific damage to the cpl brand.

How? They're facing other Division 1 champions from the other nations. If they think they should beat those teams just because they're CPL, well, that smacks of elitism Canada hasn't earned yet.

[Ansem]

14 minutes ago, Initial B said:

By second-string, I meant the type of players that the Liga MX and MLS teams used to play in the competition. I never meant to imply that CPL was second-string.

I agree with you about switching the format, I'd like to see the format revised with a 32 team group stage from March to May. Then the knockout stages would begin with round of 16 matchups in July and ending with the Finals at the beginning of October. Canada should get 3 spots in that format (same as Costa Rica)

Expanding it is the only way to please everyone to be honest. 

Isn't Montagliani up for reelection soon? More spots for Caribbean clubs would help his reelection campaign.

Costa Rica is by far the country that got screwed by the latest reshape with only 1 CCL and 2 CL. For a league that didn't get the perk of avoiding Liga MX at group stage, they got good results and almost did as well as MLS.

[matty]

31 minutes ago, Initial B said:

How? They're facing other Division 1 champions from the other nations. If they think they should beat those teams just because they're CPL, well, that smacks of elitism Canada hasn't earned yet.

i have no idea but some people are weirdly scared of an 8-1 loss to a hondurian team will totally kill the cpl (legit i've seen people post that). it's weird

[Guest]

1 minute ago, matty said:

i have no idea but some people are weirdly scared of an 8-1 loss to a hondurian team will totally kill the cpl (legit i've seen people post that). it's weird

Oh dear, the CMNT is dead then. Shhh, don't tell Herdman!

[Guest]

Am I the only one that is looking forward to the CPL itself a lot more than any CONCACAF offshoot like CCL?

For me, the domestic league will always be the important one. Delighted that we are finally going to have one.

[Unnamed Trialist]

22 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Expanding it is the only way to please everyone to be honest. 

Isn't Montagliani up for reelection soon? More spots for Caribbean clubs would help his reelection campaign.

Costa Rica is by far the country that got screwed by the latest reshape with only 1 CCL and 2 CL. For a league that didn't get the perk of avoiding Liga MX at group stage, they got good results and almost did as well as MLS.

There is a massive Caribbean previous round for CCL. 

I think people are being totally unreasonable to think we deserve more CCL spots. As we sit we have four pro teams in the country, in total. In a few months it will be 11. We have never had more than 15 teams even involved in the competition that decides who represents us in the competition. We have a pathetic basis to make an argument on. 

I'd like to see a major expansion of the Voyageurs Cup, and not by doing this botch up hack job like this year in the rounds (CPL teams are randomly given a bye and others more matches, TFC gets a bye into semis to pander to their tired bones and bad memory of burning out last year, they still can't get more regional rounds into place, what bullshit). 

My personal feeling is that a country with such a flimsy competition cannot ask for a single more spot in the CCL, regardless of results.

[matty]

37 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

Am I the only one that is looking forward to the CPL itself a lot more than any CONCACAF offshoot like CCL?

For me, the domestic league will always be the important one. Delighted that we are finally going to have one.

look at this loser/\ /\ /\

he values a domestic league rather than a single team going to play in belmopan

Edited February 10, 2019 by matty

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, dsqpr said:

Am I the only one that is looking forward to the CPL itself a lot more than any CONCACAF offshoot like CCL?

For me, the domestic league will always be the important one. Delighted that we are finally going to have one.

Having a CCL spot attached to the CPL enhance its importance and prestige

(At least that's the idea)

[Ansem]

58 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

There is a massive Caribbean previous round for CCL. 

I think people are being totally unreasonable to think we deserve more CCL spots. As we sit we have four pro teams in the country, in total. In a few months it will be 11. We have never had more than 15 teams even involved in the competition that decides who represents us in the competition. We have a pathetic basis to make an argument on. 

I'd like to see a major expansion of the Voyageurs Cup, and not by doing this botch up hack job like this year in the rounds (CPL teams are randomly given a bye and others more matches, TFC gets a bye into semis to pander to their tired bones and bad memory of burning out last year, they still can't get more regional rounds into place, what bullshit). 

My personal feeling is that a country with such a flimsy competition cannot ask for a single more spot in the CCL, regardless of results.

Was that the MLS approach when the league was terrible? Nope and good for them.

I don't get that we should be the only one having this moral high ground of knowing our place, shutting our mouths and improving until we're good enough to ask for a spot... 

That's unbelievably weird to me. 

Anyways, the league seems to be working on pursuing that so, it will happen, we just disagree on how soon. A CCL reformat would be the excuse to accommodate everyone

Edited February 10, 2019 by Ansem

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Having a CCL spot attached to the CPL enhance its importance and prestige

(At least that's the idea)

I definitely think the CPL winner should be awarded Canada's CCL place but not for that reason. It made sense to give our place to a francise of an American league when there was no other option but when we have a Canadian domestic league, the winner gets the place, end of story. If we get a second place then I would be in favour of giving it to the winner of the Voyageurs Cup. But as a general rule, you earn your place in international club competitions via the LEAGUE where you have chosen to play.

I guess the point of my original post was that I seem to put less value on the CCL than many. Even when it comes to MLS, I would rather see an MLS franchise currently located in Canada win that over CCL. Just my personal view.

Edited February 10, 2019 by dsqpr

[Shway]

All this CONCACAF Champions league talk I think got mixed up in me asking if the CPL should get a CONCACAF League spot. 

I simply don't see how the governing body doesn't award/completely ignore a D1 champion of a league they govern. 

Then some say the Voyageurs cup is the main competition... while that made sense before the existence/approval of the CPL... It really doesnt anymore.

[Senorpopps]

2 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

All this CONCACAF Champions league talk I think got mixed up in me asking if the CPL should get a CONCACAF League spot. 

I simply don't see how the governing body doesn't award/completely ignore a D1 champion of a league they govern. 

Then some say the Voyageurs cup is the main competition... while that made sense before the existence/approval of the CPL... It really doesnt anymore.

With respect to world football, it is often a country's interest to send its best representative to the continental championships. In most countries (if not all others), a country's best teams play in their top domestic championship. In Canada, we are an exception, since our best teams play in the MLS. Therefore, for the sake of our country's pride, we maintain the Voyageur cup to determine our allocation spot b/c giving it to the CPL champions would deny the 3 (maybe 4) other teams that are clearly better than all teams in the CPL the chance to represent our country. Personally, I think the Impact would fare better against continental competition than Forge FC or York 9, the current projected "strongest teams" in the CPL. That goes without saying, given the current structure of the CONCACAF Champions League and how it strives to represent its constituent countries fairly, I do think they should either a) Expand the competition from 16 teams to give the CPL (as well as additional Caribbean countries) an extra spot along with the co-existing Voyageurs competition (and rank the CPL champion lower to be fair) or b) at the very least give us a spot in the Concacaf League so we can gain experience against the lesser Central American teams and top Caribbean squads. Personally, I'd love to travel to Jamaica to hit up a resort and catch Forge against Portmore United! 

[Ansem]

59 minutes ago, Senorpopps said:

With respect to world football, it is often a country's interest to send its best representative to the continental championships. In most countries (if not all others), a country's best teams play in their top domestic championship. In Canada, we are an exception, since our best teams play in the MLS. Therefore, for the sake of our country's pride, we maintain the Voyageur cup to determine our allocation spot b/c giving it to the CPL champions would deny the 3 (maybe 4) other teams that are clearly better than all teams in the CPL the chance to represent our country. Personally, I think the Impact would fare better against continental competition than Forge FC or York 9, the current projected "strongest teams" in the CPL. That goes without saying, given the current structure of the CONCACAF Champions League and how it strives to represent its constituent countries fairly, I do think they should either a) Expand the competition from 16 teams to give the CPL (as well as additional Caribbean countries) an extra spot along with the co-existing Voyageurs competition (and rank the CPL champion lower to be fair) or b) at the very least give us a spot in the Concacaf League so we can gain experience against the lesser Central American teams and top Caribbean squads. Personally, I'd love to travel to Jamaica to hit up a resort and catch Forge against Portmore United! 

Does it really though? Everytime a Canadian team makes it to the finals or go deep in CCL, "we hardcore", knows it's a Canadian team representing Canada... however, MLS is so fast at redirecting the narrative that "an MLS team" is proving that they are catching up to the Mexicans... I'm like really??? And the media drinks the kool-aid and stays on the message...

Teams that haven't qualify via MLS Championship are "representing MLS" when they go deep...

This has to change. CPL champions must be Canadian Champions and get the berth to CCL. Even If TFC beat Guadalajara last year,  the narrative would have been "MLS" finally beat the Mexicans, not Canada, let's be real for a second. 

I'm all for 2 CCL spots, one for V Cup and one for CPL, but CPL should be the priority, otherwise, what are we doing here

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Ansem said:

Was that the MLS approach when the league was terrible? Nope and good for them.

I don't get that we should be the only one having this moral high ground of knowing our place, shutting our mouths and improving until we're good enough to ask for a spot... 

That's unbelievably weird to me. 

Anyways, the league seems to be working on pursuing that so, it will happen, we just disagree on how soon. A CCL reformat would be the excuse to accommodate everyone

It's not a moral high ground. It's a natural order. It is respecting reasonable timing. It is not putting the cart before the horse. For example: can you tell me how they will determine the CPL winner? Do we have a definitive statement on playoffs? Right, we are going to lobby for a CPL winner to participate, but without even having announced HOW the winner will be determined. 

Otherwise it is just childish, as I see it, no point stomping our feet. We have four pro teams, soon 11, and we want 2 Champions League spots. That is not reasonable on paper.

But hey, first let's get through a season anyways. Then let's negotiate it as we go. I am sure it'll come, but they'll have to restructure the Concacaf tournaments to fit our second side into some formula: who do you suggest should be kicked out for us?

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

CPL got a mention on the English broadcast of this week’s Bayern Munich match when Davies came on. Said the start of our own league would mean the production of more young players. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

CPL got a mention on the English broadcast of this week’s Bayern Munich match when Davies came on. Said the start of our own league would mean the production of more young players. 

Were you watching the Sky feed? Whose is the German colour commentator on that broadcast, it is the one we get in Spain, but I can't find out who is announcing it.