Copes Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) IMO, if Canada gets a 2nd berth the answer is simple. 1 berth for Voyageur Cup winner, 1 berth for CPL winner. There will never, ever, be more than 3 Canadian MLS teams. Putting 2 berths in the Voyageur Cup is kind of silly, especially in the early years where the final will almost certainly be between 2 MLS teams. Giving 66% of Canadian MLS teams CCL berths just because is kind of boring. From a viewer standpoint, it will also significantly reduce the excitement of the CCL final if both teams have berths already. Plus, we want to be growing our national league as fast and effectively as possible. 1 berth in Voyageurs that will be a spot for the 3 MLS teams to lose. If they want it its more or less going to be theirs in the early years. 1 berth in for the CPL winner so Canada's Division 1 league is represented internationally. It makes a ton of sense to me. Top domestic cup berth and top domestic league berth. If teams don't compete in one or another that's on them. Edited February 7, 2019 by Copes Kent, DrummingInMySleep, Red and White and 6 others 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I am definitely prioritizing support for CPL over MLS, but I recognize the value of having 3 teams in the US league. With the money in the States, it is very possible that MLS becomes a top league in the next couple of decades - and I think overtaking Liga MX is inevitable. Having clubs in that structure will be valuable for player development. 1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said: If we want to use the CCL as a means for the most Canadian players to gain experience playing top-level football in hostile stadiums throughout the region, then putting barriers in the way of the best three Canadian clubs isn't the best option. Simply mandate that all Voyageurs' Cup matches be played with the same domestic player requirements that CanPL plays under. It'll force the MLS3 to give meaningful minutes to their Canadian players, giving them the opportunities to force their way in for league and CCL matches, as well. Something like this ensures that they will have some sort of CanCon requirement if they value the CCL spots - and ensure that they keep the Canadian players integrated into the squad enough that a V Cup game couldn't be a matter of throwing on some young Canucks and letting the American journeymen win the match. Strong CanCon requirements would be good for all involved. zen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 3 hours ago, dyslexic nam said: I am definitely prioritizing support for CPL over MLS, but I recognize the value of having 3 teams in the US league. With the money in the States, it is very possible that MLS becomes a top league in the next couple of decades - and I think overtaking Liga MX is inevitable. Having clubs in that structure will be valuable for player development. Exactly!!!! I have be saying this for 20 years now: https://web.archive.org/web/20101130015309/http://members.shaw.ca/t.godwin/csl/mls.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 MDS spent a full hour on tsn 1040 yesterday. He was asked if Caps will be loaning players to the CPL. He said not sure at the moment, the relationship between MLS and CPL is currently a grey area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 16 hours ago, dsqpr said: The role the CSA would play would be to tell the Canadian MLS franchises that they are only eligible for the Canadian CCL place via CPL. Why would the CSA want to do that? Would this be a calculated move on their part to kill off the Voyageurs Cup and/or lessen the importance of the Canadian Championship? Or would they want to do this because the MLS teams, all of their Canadian national team players and their academies would now be seen as adversaries and treated with contempt? RS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenFisk'sBiggestFan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 54 minutes ago, SpursFlu said: MDS spent a full hour on tsn 1040 yesterday. He was asked if Caps will be loaning players to the CPL. He said not sure at the moment, the relationship between MLS and CPL is currently a grey area. You would think if they were planning on doing that they wouldnt have let so many of their academy kids get poached by Pacific FC. Some talent there that they have given up on. ted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) On 2/6/2019 at 1:23 PM, Jahinho Guerro said: Question..... Has it been confirmed that the CPL champion will be awarded a Concacaf League spot? I have reviewed investment material prepare by the league and yes, according to this CPL Champions will be awarded a CL spot. Edited February 8, 2019 by hamiltonfan Lofty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 23 minutes ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said: You would think if they were planning on doing that they wouldnt have let so many of their academy kids get poached by Pacific FC. Some talent there that they have given up on. tbh i don't think those players are getting poached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 34 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said: Why would the CSA want to do that? Would this be a calculated move on their part to kill off the Voyageurs Cup and/or lessen the importance of the Canadian Championship? Or would they want to do this because the MLS teams, all of their Canadian national team players and their academies would now be seen as adversaries and treated with contempt? The CSA would do that because it is pretty much universally accepted that in football the way you determine your national champion is with a league, where everybody plays everybody else. Cup competitions involve far too much luck, which is why it is so rare for the English champions, for example, to also win the FA Cup. There is no contempt in requiring teams to qualify for inter-country club competitions via the league where they play. In fact, it is standard practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senorpopps Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 While this is the case in most countries, the dynamic of how Canada's professional teams are tiered suggests that a Cup competition would produce the best representative for the country. There are 3, potentially 4, Canadian teams that are superior in quality to the 7 teams of the CPL. Giving the slot to the league would only rob Canada of sending its best competitor to the international stage - if a CPL team wants to make it then they should have to prove themselves against the MLS squads in order to do so - via la Voyageur Cup! zen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_M Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Canadian Premier League partners with Ticketmaster to provide 100% mobile tickets https://canpl.ca/article/canadian-premier-league-partners-with-ticketmaster Bbeto and ted 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Big_M said: Canadian Premier League partners with Ticketmaster to provide 100% mobile tickets https://canpl.ca/article/canadian-premier-league-partners-with-ticketmaster grande and Lofty 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 31 minutes ago, Senorpopps said: While this is the case in most countries, the dynamic of how Canada's professional teams are tiered suggests that a Cup competition would produce the best representative for the country. There are 3, potentially 4, Canadian teams that are superior in quality to the 7 teams of the CPL. Giving the slot to the league would only rob Canada of sending its best competitor to the international stage - if a CPL team wants to make it then they should have to prove themselves against the MLS squads in order to do so - via la Voyageur Cup! Basically this. It is even more universally accepted that nations want to send their best teams and its unlikely in Canada's case that those teams are going to be coming from the CPL (and as you say, in order to prove it, we have the V-Cup in place). I say "more" because the USSF does in fact give one of their spots to their Cup competition winner - they don't pick the four teams with the best records or the four finalists & semi-finalists in the MLS playoffs (which is a system that most leagues do not have). Doing something because that's how other people do it - without analyzing or considering whether that actually make sense given the unique context that Canada has for soccer - strikes me as potentially disastrous. BringBackTheBlizzard, zen and RS 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senorpopps Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 30 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said: Basically this. It is even more universally accepted that nations want to send their best teams and its unlikely in Canada's case that those teams are going to be coming from the CPL (and as you say, in order to prove it, we have the V-Cup in place). I say "more" because the USSF does in fact give one of their spots to their Cup competition winner - they don't pick the four teams with the best records or the four finalists & semi-finalists in the MLS playoffs (which is a system that most leagues do not have). Doing something because that's how other people do it - without analyzing or considering whether that actually make sense given the unique context that Canada has for soccer - strikes me as potentially disastrous. So then can we agree that the bigger blasphemy is only awarding Canada one spot in the Concacaf Champions league? It's a shame that they reduced it to 16 teams. If there were 24 slots, we may not have even needed to argue about this! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, Senorpopps said: So then can we agree that the bigger blasphemy is only awarding Canada one spot in the Concacaf Champions league? It's a shame that they reduced it to 16 teams. If there were 24 slots, we may not have even needed to argue about this! lol From a meritocracy point of view in terms of how well teams have done in the competition, yes I agree. Since the start of the "Champions League" era, only Mexican teams have won the competition but more Canadian teams have made the finals that American teams (despite their being 4 times as many US teams in the competition each year) have. Even reaching the semi-final stage, US teams have done it five times while Canadian teams have done it four times despite being outnumbered 4 to 1 by our neighbours to the south. But then Concacaf teams doing better than African and Asian teams at the past few World Cup hasn't really helped us get more World Cup spots, so merit doesn't always have the effect it should. I can understand the argument that having 2 spots with only 4 professional teams (with all due respect to League 1 & AS Blainville) would be seen as somewhat egregious in another perspective. But once we get to 11 teams (and hopefully counting), that argument flies out the window IMO and some sort of berth (even if its via a play-off) to get into the Concacaf League shouldn't be hard for the CSA to lobby for. In the town hall I attended last year the CSA guys seemed pretty confident about their chances of a 2nd spot of some kind once the CPL was up and running (that was before the league was officially launched with an actual start date and there were only 2 clubs). So I think after the league starts to play some actual games, we might get word of a 2nd spot via that Concacaf league. Right now the spots in that league are: 2 clubs from Costa Rica 2 clubs from El Salvador 2 clubs from Guatemala 2 clubs from Honduras 2 clubs from Nicaragua 2 clubs from Panama 1 club from Belize 2 clubs from the Caribbean Club Championship (runner-up, third place) 1 club from Caribbean Club Championship Tier 1/2 playoff Canada have the same number of spots in Concacaf club play as Belize and fewer than Nicaragua is going to look egregiously unjust once the CPL starts playing games, IMO (unless the league pulls a CPSL and folds in the middle of the first season, but while I may not share the "We're going to be bigger than MLS" cockiness coming out of some quarters, I also don't think the league will fail like the CPSL did. Hopefully it will also last longer (and by that I mean last indefinitely) than the CSL did. Senorpopps, Rocket Robin, ted and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 hours ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said: You would think if they were planning on doing that they wouldnt have let so many of their academy kids get poached by Pacific FC. Some talent there that they have given up on. Im with you on principle but to be fair to the Whitecaps they signed 3 residency players to 1st team contracts last year. Colyn, Baldisino & Bair. Im not sure you can expect more than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenFisk'sBiggestFan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I’m not giving the Caps a hard time. I just think they could be a little more patient for a couple more people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 4 hours ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said: You would think if they were planning on doing that they wouldnt have let so many of their academy kids get poached by Pacific FC. Some talent there that they have given up on. I think the 'Caps just got caught asleep at the switch. We can call them the 'Naps. youllneverwalkalone, Rintaran, MtlMario and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downtownordinary Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 2 hours ago, ted said: I think the 'Caps just got caught asleep at the switch. We can call them the 'Naps. Or maybe since the Caps signed 3 other homegrown players recently and no longer have an affiliate the players that left for Pacific FC chose to move there instead of playing for a travelling U23 team (if they were offered that opportunity) ted and matty 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 I think eventually CPL will get a CONCACAF League spot separate from the Voyageurs Cup CONCACAF Champions League spot. Likely not in 2019, but hopefully it won’t take more than 2 or 3 years. By then I hope there is also promotion and relegation of slots between CL and CCL. Then the CPL teams can try to build up the CONCACAF Club Index to the point where it becomes a CCL spot, and perhaps before then win the CL, but I don’t think either of those accomplishments would be an easy thing to do. I can’t wait to see where these competitions are in a few years, and CPL’s place within them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 In a few years, I think what will and should end up happening is that Canada gets 1+1 spots. The catch being the CPL gets the Champions league spot and the Voyageurs champs get the League spot. I just want to see how the logic will be determined. zen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Initial B Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 I'd be quite happy with the CPL Champion just getting a CL slot. The MLS clubs would just ROFLstomp through the CL if the CL slot was won through the Voyageurs Cup. Having the CPL Champion play CONCACAF League would expose young Canadian players to an appropriate level of CONCACAFery... er... *international competition*. Red and White and Keegan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Initial B said: I'd be quite happy with the CPL Champion just getting a CL slot. The MLS clubs would just ROFLstomp through the CL if the CL slot was won through the Voyageurs Cup. Having the CPL Champion play CONCACAF League would expose young Canadian players to an appropriate level of CONCACAFery... er... *international competition*. I never understood this belief of having to protect our CPL champions like they were made of glass or something. Leagues sending their champions isn't the exception, it's the norm except for the Caribbeans. I refuse to accept that our teams would do any worse than some of the CFU clubs who's been there so far. Wouldn't players and coach learn much faster by being exposed to the highest level sooner rather than later so they can adjust and improve faster? Our clubs are facing MLS level teams in the Canadian Championship as of this year, no? So if we are to compete against the "2nd best" league in CONCACAF, why can't we be thrown in there with other Central America and CFU clubs? That logic makes no sense to me. The CSA is absolutely justified to request a CCL spot from the get go. If all we get is CL so be it. Hard not to think that the 2020 CCL format won't be changed to reflect the arrival of a new league. Shway, Lofty, matty and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Everyone remembers how embarassing Montreal were when they participated as an USL1 team right? Ansem, Bison44, johnyb and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Alex D said: Everyone remembers how embarassing Montreal were when they participated as an USL1 team right? You mean the year when they beat MLS TFC and survived the group stage finishing 2nd with Atlante (Mexico), better than Olimpia (Honduras) and Joe Public (Trinidad)? And lost by 1 goal on aggregate to Santos Laguna and drew over 50k at the Olympic stadium Epic run! That's why I don't get all the chatter about protecting our teams from stronger foe. Failure the greatest teacher is... -A famous master Edited February 9, 2019 by Ansem Lofty, MtlMario and Shway 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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