CPL General

[Bison44]

How many european coaches with good pedigrees did MLS clubs bring in over the years?? And 1-2 years later they are back in europe telling their friends the horror stories about trades, salary caps, shitty NA soccer culture etc etc.  Same with the foreign players not every guy is cut out for our brand of soccer and life in canada.    

[matty]

1 hour ago, Keegan said:

But with TFC Brennan was unpopular and canned as a club legend.  Who else got that treatment?  I heard he was a bum. 

i've heard mixed things but the fact he was the one they put in charge when nelsen was suspended says the team had some trust in him and i wouldn't read too much into the club legend/unpopular stuff as the team had little history at that point and no one with tfc behind the scenes was popular at the time.

 

[shamrock]

22 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

How many european coaches with good pedigrees did MLS clubs bring in over the years?? And 1-2 years later they are back in europe telling their friends the horror stories about trades, salary caps, shitty NA soccer culture etc etc.  Same with the foreign players not every guy is cut out for our brand of soccer and life in canada.    

I agree although most if it would crazy MLS-rules (I wonder if there's a person that understands them all). 

[youllneverwalkalone]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

Someone on the V's FB page posted that the total player salary budget will be around $750k.  Seems low to me, but if it lets teams start populating rosters with talent I guess it is a big step.

Saw this. To me, this number only makes sense as a floor. $30k per player would be minimum wage annualized. This is fine for academy grads, but I can't imagine you'd attract many back from Europe for McDonald's wages. You'd be better off working at McDonald's in Norway.

[BradMack]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

What I meant was in the oil patch this kind of deal is common.  A technical expert doesnt have the money to buy in to a start up and agrees to work cheap in lue of a cash buy in.  If your just a money guy you put in money.  I get that he wants to help the club, work his ass off etc, but would you work on the cheap so Baldassarra could keep any extra 50G in his pocket???  

Ah yes, I understand. I believe his value is more in his name, similar to Josh Simpson/Friend on the Island. I think we have a misunderstanding here.

I am not arguing that Brennan would work for cheap so Baldassarra could pocket the money... I am saying we've heard rumors of a combined player/coaching salary cap, and could he be working on a super cheap contract in order to be able to take the money York doesn't have to spend on a coach, and spend it on player budget.  

This could be a loophole they plan to use to get a competitive advantage, or go after a name that they might need to pay more, but would sell tickets. Either way Brennan owns a part of the team and will make money if a better team, or a bigger name, translates to more tickets sold. Not to mention if York is a success and the CPL grows it will become more and more valuable. His stake in the team will be worth working for nearly free for a year or two if it becomes a long term success. York clearly needs to do something to sell tickets. 

[matthew]

I have seen and heard a surprising range of salary cap suggestions floated publicly and privately. So we'll see where it lands, but I've heard lower than $750,000 and I think $750,000 is a very workable number. And I believe the final number will be a little higher. But if the high end of USL wages is $500,000 US, then I think $750,000 Cdn is functional. Especially as a starting point.

It's worth considering that not all players will be created equal in the CPL. When MLS expanded their rosters in 2002, they did so by creating four "developmental roster" spots. Those guys made $12,500. So you might be surprised at how little some guys would take to play in a professional league. There will be a lot of guys coming out of U Sports, League 1 Ontario and the PDL, etc. and it wouldn't shock me to see them making a very modest wage. It lets you get a foot in the door and if you're playing close to home (which seems likely for those last few guys on the roster), then you could live at home or have easier access to part time work or work with clinics and camps to supplement your income.

Also in the first year expect a lot of the bottom spots on the roster to be a revolving door. In the first few months of MLS guys were being released and new players signed with great frequency. Most people didn't notice because the players that actually saw the pitch didn't change much. The MLS roster in 96 was 18 players. MetroStars used 36 players that year. Four started a match and never featured again. They had nine guys who topped out at 90 minutes or less. 

It's going to take some time for the domestic player pool to settle as guys from a wide array of backgrounds and experience get to prove their worth on a level playing field for the first time in a long time. By having a low cap, those fringe guys who may be good enough to be professionals, but may not be, won't be making a lot of money while teams figure out who is good enough. To be clear there are going to be plenty of guys playing overseas or in the USL who will make a solid wage in the CPL, even in a tight cap, but I don't think the squad players are going to make much to start with.

Regarding foreign players, I think there will be players who are already in Canada or North America who end up filling import spots. I think guys like Judah Hernandez from Oakville or Kévin Le Nours from AS Blainville could help a CPL team, but as far as I know shouldn't count as domestic players (I hope what constitutes as "domestic" is made clear by the end of the week). I wouldn't assume that every foreign player is already making a professional wage overseas.
 

cheers, matthew

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

32 minutes ago, matthew said:

I have seen and heard a surprising range of salary cap suggestions floated publicly and privately. So we'll see where it lands, but I've heard lower than $750,000 and I think $750,000 is a very workable number...

Who did you hear this from? If you get to those sort of numbers that's around 18 x $41,700 or 23 x $32,600 depending on roster size. See Steven Sandor's recent blog entry for why that could start to become problematic in player recruitment terms where fringe CMNT players are concerned. If you are right we are moving a long way from the sort of league we were being told about two or three years ago, which isn't necessarily a bad thing from a longevity standpoint as long as they can achieve reasonable on field quality that will get people to renew their season tickets at the end of year one.

[matty]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Who did you hear this from? If you get to those sort of numbers that's around 18 x $41,700 or 23 x $32,600 depending on roster size. See Steven Sandor's recent blog entry for why that could start to become problematic in player recruitment terms where fringe CMNT players are concerned. If you are right we are moving a long way from the sort of league we were being told about two or three years ago, which isn't necessarily a bad thing from a longevity standpoint as long as they can achieve reasonable on field quality that will get people to renew their season tickets at the end of year one.

Someone of the FB group mentioned they talked to some York 9 guys and $750k was the combined coach/player salary.

Here's the text:

"I talked to some of the York 9 staff yesterday about the player recruitment process for #CanPL . Coaches meetings will take place next week, but what they have heard so far is that the salary cap will be $750K. Scouting has already started but has not been completed. International players coming in will be comprised mostly of young unestablished players looking for first team football. And older players looking for a brand new challenge. Apparently multiple ex-Serie A players have reached out to York 9 to see if there is a possibility of moving there for the next chapter of their career. York 9 also says that they are trying to recruit their internationals from Italy, and get at least 1 household name to bring the large Italian community (around 50%) in Vaughan, Woodbridge, and the rest of York out to the games. If you have any questions comment below and I’ll try my best to answer the questions with the information I have been given."

It's weird cause a $750k cap would def not allow for a household name unless you have a DP type rule and are game paying one guy double the rest of the team. Again grain of salt cause rando on FB.

Edited August 21, 2018 by matty

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

That definitely makes it sound like there is scope for a marquee player signing outside the cap. If they get the right player it should help them make a bit more of a splash.

[Ansem]

So we're talking $750K + DP?

[matty]

10 minutes ago, Ansem said:

So we're talking $750K + DP?

That's what I'm wondering. I'm skeptical of this FB post cause again it's a FB post from a rando but it seems plausible to start with a reduced cap in the $750k-1m range. The household name part is very weird to me if the cap is that low but the logic behind it makes sense. How it works (DP rule, luxury tax) I dunno? I would usually just brush this aside but after Pat broke Calgary anything seems possible.

BTW the $750k cap concerns me cause you would lose a lot of MNT players (including fringe) from even the D2s and 3s.

[michaeltfc91]

750k salary cap is really minor league, they won't be able to attract professional players ..... you probably need to make 60,000 to live in major Canadian cities comfortably. With a 25 man roster an average of 30k would be the salaries - it's minimum wage. Unless players have part time jobs throughout the winter which will be unfortunate. 

Minimum salary needs to be 50k

[Bison44]

It was less than 10 years ago when MLS had a minimum salary of 20,000.  In 2014 that said  26% of the league was making less than 50000.  

https://www.wakingthered.com/2014/4/10/5601528/mls-salaries-league-minimum-nfl-nba-nhl-mlb-jermain-defoe-david-beckham-michael-bradley

Now 4 years later the minimum is 54,000, so we can all see how things can change once a league gets off the ground and is economically feasible.   If we are going to see some PDL and a lot of USL level CDN on the first year rosters 30-40g wont seem that bad.  How you fill out the top end of the roster with only 50-70g a year is much more of a head scratcher.  

10 bench players (usl and PDL) 35g           350000

5 starters @ 50g                                             250000

5 decent players @ 80g                                400000

That still adds up to 1 million.  Going much lower than that is going to be very hard.  

[Alex D]

I hope there are no DPs. A salary cap is one thing but DPs, Tam,Gam, trading international spots, allocation orders, where does it end? We were promised real football, not MLS. Please follow through. 

[Jason]

26 minutes ago, Alex D said:

I hope there are no DPs. A salary cap is one thing but DPs, Tam,Gam, trading international spots, allocation orders, where does it end? We were promised real football, not MLS. Please follow through. 

I also would prefer a lot less of this MLS voodoo as well.  But if there is going to be a salary cap in the CPL, there will probably be some of this sort of thing.  The only thing I'd like to see is the ability to trade cap space.  So if a last place club who is young and way under the cap could trade cap space (only for the remainder of that year) to a contending club I think that would be a good way for a good team to take an extra step short term.

[baulderdash77]

It’s a random on Facebook.  I disregard it because it’s contradictory to everything we’ve heard.  Just internet rumours. They’re meeting in a few weeks to talk about it, let’s wait until then.

I think Steve Milton saying in a published and on record report for a major daily paper that it’s 40-60k salary range a number of months ago carries more weight. Until a mainstream media member writes something different on record we should assume that for now.  

[Complete Homer]

The Darkest Timeline: CPL follows USL's example of not publishing salary or cap information, leaving us to bicker about this for years to come

[matty]

36 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

It’s a random on Facebook.  I disregard it because it’s contradictory to everything we’ve heard.  Just internet rumours. They’re meeting in a few weeks to talk about it, let’s wait until then.

I think Steve Milton saying in a published and on record report for a major daily paper that it’s 40-60k salary range a number of months ago carries more weight. Until a mainstream media member writes something different on record we should assume that for now.  

That's how I mostly looked at it but meh it was fun to play with a bit. 

4 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

The Darkest Timeline: CPL follows USL's example of not publishing salary or cap information, leaving us to bicker about this for years to come

The Darkest Timeline: It turns out Tg11 (or whatever his name was) is the owner of a team and the Vs are banned forever from all CPL and CanMNT events

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

8 hours ago, michaeltfc91 said:

...Minimum salary needs to be 50k

That probably sends the break even point north of 8000 paid per game. Meanwhile, they only have around 200 memberships sold in York Region and Victoria. Eventually rhetoric and aspiration collides with reality. What they are attempting to do always was and still remains something that is very difficult to achieve when you deliberately strictly limit yourselves to the confines of Canada .

If a 750k cap (+ scope for 1 big name to help on marketing tickets) is what they have in mind then their actions are tempered by realism and based on rationality, so they are giving themselves a legitimate shot at making it through to well beyond year one. Even with 750k a lot depends on how large a full-time pro roster they carry and how many of the roster spots would be filled out with semi-pro and amateur deals for local players. The starting spine of the team (goalkeeper, two centre backs, two central midfielders and two strikers) could easily still be in the 40-60k range.

Edited August 22, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[CanSuffer]

11 hours ago, michaeltfc91 said:

 

Minimum salary needs to be 50k

MLS minimum salary THIS YEAR is $54K and that's with 20-30,000 and up stadiums

Monster.com estimates the AVERAGE salary for CFL is $50K

A CPL minimum $50K doesn't seem realistic, especially in year one.

 

[michaeltfc91]

3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

That probably sends the break even point north of 8000 paid per game. Meanwhile, they only have around 200 memberships sold in York Region and Victoria. Eventually rhetoric and aspiration collides with reality. What they are attempting to do always was and still remains something that is very difficult to achieve when you deliberately strictly limit yourselves to the confines of Canada .

If a 750k cap (+ scope for 1 big name to help on marketing tickets) is what they have in mind then their actions are tempered by realism and based on rationality, so they are giving themselves a legitimate shot at making it through to well beyond year one. Even with 750k a lot depends on how large a full-time pro roster they carry and how many of the roster spots would be filled out with semi-pro and amateur deals for local players. The starting spine of the team (goalkeeper, two centre backs, two central midfielders and two strikers) could easily still be in the 40-60k range.

I completely agree with you on the first paragraph, which is why its unfortunate. All I am saying is if I am making 30,000 CDN as a 25 year old substitute for York 9, I am definitely going to need a part time job / winter job to afford to live (or have a rich GF / parents).

Not to mention, if I have a University degree I could easily be making 60,000-70,000 at most full time jobs so players might consider that option as well

Hopefully it works out, if I was good enough I wouldn't leave my full time job to make 30k in the CPL it would be way too hard to make ends meet

[deschamp86]

10 minutes ago, michaeltfc91 said:

I completely agree with you on the first paragraph, which is why its unfortunate. All I am saying is if I am making 30,000 CDN as a 25 year old substitute for York 9, I am definitely going to need a part time job / winter job to afford to live (or have a rich GF / parents).

Not to mention, if I have a University degree I could easily be making 60,000-70,000 at most full time jobs so players might consider that option as well

Hopefully it works out, if I was good enough I wouldn't leave my full time job to make 30k in the CPL it would be way too hard to make ends meet

I've known people who get EI benefits while in the offseason of their jobs (eg. working at a golf course). Does anyone know if this would be a route or possibility for the players?

[baulderdash77]

13 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

I've known people who get EI benefits while in the offseason of their jobs (eg. working at a golf course). Does anyone know if this would be a route or possibility for the players?

They could probably structure it that way.  EI tips out at about 550 per week.  Pretty thin to work on for 20 weeks per year.  About the same as minimum wage in Ontario.

[Daryn27]

Reporter Steve Milton learned that the CPL will have a salary cap structure, with the average player’s wage hovering around $50,000 or more. The league will also have a heavy focus on Canadian content, as it looks like teams will need to be composed of at least half Canadian players (both on the field and in their overall roster).

Also important to note is that the CPL will apparently draw its players from five “pools.” First would be the “Foundational” Canadian players, who already play professionally at a high level (either in MLS or elsewhere, I’d assume). Then there “Up-and-coming” young Canadians playing around the world, as well as “Home territory” players who come from a club’s local area. International players would fit into the “Open market” category, and it sounds like a few non-Canadians have expressed interest in the league.

The fifth pool is reportedly for Canadian college and university players; the Spectator reports that the CPL has been in contact with U Sports with regard to a possible draft — similar to the MLS SuperDraft.

[shorty]

Is it possible that Hamilton have their coach in place but haven't announced? They obviously have to have someone representing them in Toronto this week at the coaches' summit. Saw a picture online of Anthony Totera with Alex Bunbury at the summit and wondered if it could be Bunbury. I suppose Bob Young or someone else could represent them but that seems weird.