CPL General

[Scorpion26]

Exciting to see which is now 6 teams on CPL and have they officially capped amount of teams to start CPL with?

Any ways I like the team names and logos to me they've been quite unique in the soccer world. 

[Gian-Luca]

On 7/12/2018 at 3:22 PM, Markoaleks said:

We are in “first world problems “ with this string !

if the Logo’s are done on an etch-a-sketch and if the team names were selected in a circa 2000 gold cup drawing of lots, I would not care !

My first soccer national soccer love started in 1982 watching my county of birth  France (on tape delay on CBC) play in World Cup - I still hate Tony Shumaker !

I think you mean Harald Shumacher - he was the bastard who did the flying elbow in the penalty box on Patrick Battiston. Tony was the formula 1 driver I believe.

Sorry for the pedantry, I loved the overall sentiment of your post!

[Bison44]

I think you mean Harold Ramis, he was the guy with glasses in ghost busters.

[Gian-Luca]

5 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I think you mean Harold Ramis, he was the guy with glasses in ghost busters.

If we are going to do a Harold Ramis reference on a Canadian forum, let’s at least make it an SCTV one. This is Moe Green we are talking about after all!

[Gian-Luca]

Re the Spectator article, while I applaud the ambition of saying the league could be a higher level of play than the USL, I can’t see that happening for the near future with both a salary cap and a rule to have 6 Canadians on the field at all times. I think expectations have to be lowered in that regard at the outset, while at the same time I understand that you don’t want to suggest it’s going to be a crap level of play either.

[-Hammer-]

As far as the name, I love Forge. It's a great name that is both a tribute to the Steel industry in the Hammer, to the creativity of our arts scene and it's especially great if you play up an Academy aspect of the team. It's simple, it's centers on the whole point of the team and the league as a whole is, to give us the tools to compete on an international level and build the game in this country. It's also world's better then Founders which was god awful for multiple different reasons I stated earlier.

As far as the colors, I'm glad they are going to have one game a year running black and gold, and frankly hope they co-brand those colors as the alt kits for the team (or keeper kits) I can live with orange and grey, as I do feel grey is underused in sports. It also lets you walk that line between yellow and orange. That said, I would have preferred black, gold and grey as the colors.

As far as the logo, the Hammer logo I love it, although why the sparks are on top of the hammer and not where the Hammer is smashing is a bit odd, but I think it's suppose to be an open forge in the background spewing fire, or sparks from a Hammer strike (from the wrong angle). As I said though, I like it, kinda also looks like a sun. I also like that they kept the Hammer, simple and clean, and while they couldn't resist giving meaning to the number of lines on the handle (each representing one of the amalgamated communities of Hamilton), it's simple enough an explanation to not get ridiculous.

The HF logo, I don't hate it, but I wouldn't say I love it either, and to be honest I'm seeing more and more cracks with it every day. I'm not usually a fan of using just a letter or two letters for your logo, because it's 1) boring 2) overdone 3) makes you look like a highschool or college team and 4) doesn't communicate your branding well. When I look at it, I think "Samoan Tribal Tatoo" not "Hamilton Forge Soccer" I'll be honest, part of me googled Klingon alphabet to see if someone pulled a prank, just for kicks. It's just kinda...there, if they don't put it on a shield with some words, I'd be concerned people would just think the logo is some kind of clothing line.

I would have gone with a Hammer smashing an Anvil with golden sparks coming out on it, on a black shield back drop so the sparks also look like stars, but I can't complain as I can't design it myself.

Edited July 14, 2018 by -Hammer-

[longlugan]

2 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

I think you mean Harald Shumacher - he was the bastard who did the flying elbow in the penalty box on Patrick Battiston. Tony was the formula 1 driver I believe.

Sorry for the pedantry, I loved the overall sentiment of your post!

Slight correction gents...Harald Anton( Toni) Schumacher was the goalkeeper who played for Germany and FC Köln...Michael Schumacher was the Formula 1 driver. Btw I'd love it if he was Croatia's goalie in the finals...you'd never see a Frenchman come anywhere near his penalty area. That collision still resonates in France's football psyche to this day

[longlugan]

2 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

I think you mean Harald Shumacher - he was the bastard who did the flying elbow in the penalty box on Patrick Battiston. Tony was the formula 1 driver I believe.

Sorry for the pedantry, I loved the overall sentiment of your post!

Slight correction gents...Harald Anton( Toni) Schumacher was the goalkeeper who played for Germany and FC Köln...Michael Schumacher was the Formula 1 driver. Btw I'd love it if he was Croatia's goalie in the finals...you'd never see a Frenchman come anywhere near his penalty area. That collision still resonates in France's football psyche to this day

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, -Hammer- said:

As far as the name, I love Forge. It's a great name that is both a tribute to the Steel industry in the Hammer, to the creativity of our arts scene and it's especially great if you play up an Academy aspect of the team. It's simple, it's centers on the whole point of the team and the league as a whole is, to give us the tools to compete on an international level and build the game in this country. It's also world's better then Founders which was god awful for multiple different reasons I stated earlier.

As far as the colors, I'm glad they are going to have one game a year running black and gold, and frankly hope they co-brand those colors as the alt kits for the team (or keeper kits) I can live with orange and grey, as I do feel grey is underused in sports. It also lets you walk that line between yellow and orange. That said, I would have preferred black, gold and grey as the colors.

As far as the logo, the Hammer logo I love it, although why the sparks are on top of the hammer and not where the Hammer is smashing is a bit odd, but I think it's suppose to be an open forge in the background spewing fire, or sparks from a Hammer strike (from the wrong angle). As I said though, I like it, kinda also looks like a sun. I also like that they kept the Hammer, simple and clean, and while they couldn't resist giving meaning to the number of lines on the handle (each representing one of the amalgamated communities of Hamilton), it's simple enough an explanation to not get ridiculous.

The HF logo, I don't hate it, but I wouldn't say I love it either, and to be honest I'm seeing more and more cracks with it every day. I'm not usually a fan of using just a letter or two letters for your logo, because it's 1) boring 2) overdone 3) makes you look like a highschool or college team and 4) doesn't communicate your branding well. When I look at it, I think "Samoan Tribal Tatoo" not "Hamilton Forge Soccer" I'll be honest, part of me googled Klingon alphabet to see if someone pulled a prank, just for kicks. It's just kinda...there, if they don't put it on a shield with some words, I'd be concerned people would just think the logo is some kind of clothing line.

I would have gone with a Hammer smashing an Anvil with golden sparks coming out on it, on a black shield back drop so the sparks also look like stars, but I can't complain as I can't design it myself.

Very good post, Hammer, I pretty well agree with everything. 

I agree with many here that the Gothic H is not as bad as it first looked, and that it has that excessive look that people might get into. But it is not really ideal, someone went over the top, but I also think that the owners are clueless about these things. I am sure the designer presented them with options, and they went for the most grotesque. Or did not know how to ask him to tone it down or smooth it out.

But hey, Hamilton could sort of play on being low brow, anything but elite or refined but hard knocks and tough, and that logo fits with that sort of mood. Calgary has a team named Cavalry, but it plays in a venue built for dressage; that is just partially appropriate as I see it. Hamilton has a Forge and a logo that seems designed for emo chicks, and they are playing in a CFL stadium in a steel town. So it all sort of fits. And it's funny.

[Watchmen]

5 hours ago, Ansem said:

Being on DAZN would be smart, especially since they got the Champions League exclusive rights in Canada. I'm that close to get it...if only they had Premier League as well...

I always thought that CBC was the best choice, TV-wise as it's coast to coast for free...can't beat that kind of exposure. 

The V Cup semifinals aren't even  on TV and it's crazy that DAZN got exclusive rights to Champions League. That means that both Rogers and Bell didn't put up much of a fight for them and we all know they can. I don't think they get paid much for year 1 of CPL. If a digital media is willing to pay a premium for exclusivity I get why they are considering it, but yeah, I prefer they show the product on TV.

I don't think any digital media is going to be willing to pay a premium.  DAZN was able to out bid TSN and Sportsnet because those two rely on advertising revenue and the Champions League is on at a time of day when there's fewer viewers available.  DAZN's subscription model (and ability to let you watch the game later) gives it a distinct advantage.  But additionally, DAZN won't have to worry about the costs surrounding the broadcast of Champions League.  If CPL wants to be on DAZN, DAZN would have to worry about all those costs, which aren't insignificant (I've heard about $50k per game at this type of level).  I'm not sure they'd be able to recoup those costs with additional subscribers.

CBC does make the most sense, though you'd likely have to forfeit being on TV for awhile during the Stanley Cup playoffs.

[matty]

7 hours ago, Ansem said:

Being on DAZN would be smart, especially since they got the Champions League exclusive rights in Canada. I'm that close to get it...if only they had Premier League as well...

I always thought that CBC was the best choice, TV-wise as it's coast to coast for free...can't beat that kind of exposure. 

The V Cup semifinals aren't even  on TV and it's crazy that DAZN got exclusive rights to Champions League. That means that both Rogers and Bell didn't put up much of a fight for them and we all know they can. I don't think they get paid much for year 1 of CPL. If a digital media is willing to pay a premium for exclusivity I get why they are considering it, but yeah, I prefer they show the product on TV.

DAZN would be useless for them at this stage if it wasn't for NFL. This league needs to be for everyone not just soccer fans.

TSN and Sportsnet are still #1 and 2 thanks to their exposure (even over CBC in a lot of ways) but it's difficult to say if they would be game.

I don't think anyone will pay for several seasons but if you can get free airtime in 3-5 million homes (which a lot of the specially channels, like Game TV or TLN, could provide) that's a high five.

8 hours ago, Ansem said:

Lots of News

https://www.thespec.com/sports-story/8739451-hamilton-s-own-and-here-to-stay/

• Clanachan said Thursday the new league will be competitive and entertaining and its calibre of play "I would like to think, could be above the USL. That's my personal opinion, though."
• And on the cusp, among others, are a team in Saskatchewan and in at least one of three possible cities in Quebec.
• "We'd like to announce two expansion clubs for 2020," Clanachan said. "If everything lined up nicely it wouldn't be outside the realm that we could announce four expansion clubs."

• Young, Mitchell and Clanachan emphasized Thursday that starting a new league had the advantage of being unencumbered by locked-in practices and mindsets.

  They're looking at moving away from old-school broadcast networks, for instance, and jumping directly into the rapidly changing media world that includes streaming and other non-traditional forms of sports-content consumption.

• Mitchell reiterated that the average team would have from $3-4 million at risk in Year One, "and it scales up from there."

• There will be a salary cap, and overall rosters will contain between 23 and 25 players, half of whom will be Canadians.

  At least six of the 11 players on the field at any one time will have to be Canadians.

The roster numbers sound good to me for the start. Everything sounds great. If they are looking at alternatives to straight streaming and TV, they'll need to improve their social media game especially with Instagram. Wonder if they're looking at stuff like Twitch.tv and Twitter instead of say DAZN.

The Quebec part kind of confuses me. Quebec City makes sense but who are the others? I guess Sherbrooke? Does someone think they can compete in Montreal, where the Impact have struggled to make a footprint? Would you really have a team in Gatineau if you're putting one in Ottawa? The 200k thing erases Trois-Rivieres and Saguenay unless they've dumped it.

[matty]

8 hours ago, Ansem said:

Looking at the Year One roster requirements, I'm relief that teams will have more flexibility than we all expected. So my understanding is 

• Half the roster must be Canadian...so up to 12 players would be allowed to be foreigners
• No more than 5 imports on the pitch at a time
• $3-4 millions...Salary or all expenses?

Should have quoted this in the other but I would guess it's all expenses based on the USL comment. $3-4m would put them in MLS range. I'd guess $1-1.5 for players, $500k for coaches and staff, $300k for travel, $200k for promotion, $400k for TV broadcasts (assuming the home team pays for the broadcast), $600k for everything else.

[SuperCanuck]

3 hours ago, longlugan said:

Slight correction gents...Harald Anton( Toni) Schumacher was the goalkeeper who played for Germany and FC Köln...Michael Schumacher was the Formula 1 driver. Btw I'd love it if he was Croatia's goalie in the finals...you'd never see a Frenchman come anywhere near his penalty area. That collision still resonates in France's football psyche to this day

So was his brother Ralf

[SuperCanuck]

8 hours ago, Ansem said:

 

• And on the cusp, among others, are a team in Saskatchewan and in at least one of three possible cities in Quebec.
• "We'd like to announce two expansion clubs for 2020," Clanachan said. "If everything lined up nicely it wouldn't be outside the realm that we could announce four expansion clubs."   

• They're looking at moving away from old-school broadcast networks, for instance, and jumping directly into the rapidly changing media world that includes streaming and other non-traditional forms of sports-content consumption.

• There will be a salary cap, and overall rosters will contain between 23 and 25 players, half of whom will be Canadians.

  At least six of the 11 players on the field at any one time will have to be Canadians.

Good:  It would be great for Saskatchewan to have a team (or two eventually).  A team or two  in Québec is vital.  

Bad:  So we'd be going from the only country besides the Vatican that doesn't have its own league to the only one that doesn't have its own league on TV.  If there's a game on in Halifax, for example, while I'm still at work, I'd like to be able to record it and come home and sit on my sofa and watch it on my almost always reliable PVR.  I couldn't even watch half the Edmonton launch because the stream or whatever it was kept failing.

Hmm:  Half the players have to be Canadian.  The more Canadians the better of course, but I don't think there'll be much of a problem with any teams wanting to go over 50% foreigners.  I don't see the teams in this league being able to fork out money for a lot of overseas players straight away.  I know maybe some Caribbean players might want to come here, but despite this being the best country in the world in which to live, it's not much of a destination for players.  

I do like the six Canadians on the pitch rule.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Responding to the salary + roster comments.

Let's go through it. You have 1.5 million for 25 players, that divides up as 60 grand a piece, which as an average is very good IMO, at least a good start. It is not a great salary depending where you are living, and less so for a family, though not having teams in major urban centres actually reduces living costs and makes such salaries more viable. 

Okay, we know that if we have a few kids making 30 a year, (which I think would have to be a minimum, for players designated similarly to MLS development, or maybe 35k) that frees up salary for a few to make 90-100, really simplifying. Stretching it, you may have a guy making 150-170, but I really doubt you could go much higher. This league is not designed that way, and it would be counterproductive to the goal of giving jobs to Canadian pros to have one star taking up  over 10% of the salary cap. 

If you have a salary of less than 100 to offer to a foreign player, that eliminates most markets of any value. You could attract a guy from the Baltic countries, the Caribbean, Central America excepting Costa Rica, or from Oman or an Uzbeki or a Lebaneses player, or a guy in 2nd division Chile, Colombia or Uruguay: you could attract a guy with first division Morocco experience, or someone playing with Issey in Malaysia. At that price, you are in the range of a third tier from a major country, so a former teammate of Piette, sure, or someone who was with Leutwiler at Shrewsbury looking for a change and willing to come down a bit salary-wise. You might be able to convince a few of the guys in modest clubs in Scotland or Eastern Europe. 

Of course that opens you up to a lot of guys in USL, guys coming out of NCAA, Canadians first, and of course anyone with PDL experience. 

I think it gives you a fairly wide base to draw from, as long as your club is smart enough to have some housing incentives through sponsors, esp for the single guys to share.  It does require a bit of nous in terms of sourcing players, which I think most clubs coming in do not really have, though some CDN agents and reps could lend them a hand.

I personally think that you cannot legally give a club first dibs on a player from a certain region, you cannot restrict employment movement like that in Canada. 

This league needs to seriously look at what sort of development option, a u21 tier for example, should be set up. Or how they might draw from a dedicated source without having to set up a 2nd junior league.

 

[Scorpion26]

Would love to see CPL have some partnership with a top Euro league similar to what MLS has done I believe with the French league or association. Maybe with the French, German, Dutch, or Spaniard organizations could come right at start of CPL to help create a program and teach the coaches. Also teach Herdman perhaps as well could prove useful to him.

[shamrock]

46 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Of course that opens you up to a lot of guys in USL, guys coming out of NCAA, Canadians first, and of course anyone with PDL experience. 

  Yup, that's the level we're looking at.

53 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I personally think that you cannot legally give a club first dibs on a player from a certain region, you cannot restrict employment movement like that in Canada. 

Agreed, I think this is pretty artificial to do. Plus most players are from the GTA, so they're all playing for York? Doesn't't make sense. On the flip side the way I read it, it's just for the first season.

53 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

This league needs to seriously look at what sort of development option, a u21 tier for example, should be set up. Or how they might draw from a dedicated source without having to set up a 2nd junior league.

This! Development will be major. If the clubs won't invest in youth set-ups, I don't believe the league will succeed.

 

[baulderdash77]

6 hours ago, -Hammer- said:

As far as the name, I love Forge. It's a great name that is both a tribute to the Steel industry in the Hammer, to the creativity of our arts scene and it's especially great if you play up an Academy aspect of the team. It's simple, it's centers on the whole point of the team and the league as a whole is, to give us the tools to compete on an international level and build the game in this country. It's also world's better then Founders which was god awful for multiple different reasons I stated earlier.

As far as the colors, I'm glad they are going to have one game a year running black and gold, and frankly hope they co-brand those colors as the alt kits for the team (or keeper kits) I can live with orange and grey, as I do feel grey is underused in sports. It also lets you walk that line between yellow and orange. That said, I would have preferred black, gold and grey as the colors.

As far as the logo, the Hammer logo I love it, although why the sparks are on top of the hammer and not where the Hammer is smashing is a bit odd, but I think it's suppose to be an open forge in the background spewing fire, or sparks from a Hammer strike (from the wrong angle). As I said though, I like it, kinda also looks like a sun. I also like that they kept the Hammer, simple and clean, and while they couldn't resist giving meaning to the number of lines on the handle (each representing one of the amalgamated communities of Hamilton), it's simple enough an explanation to not get ridiculous.

The HF logo, I don't hate it, but I wouldn't say I love it either, and to be honest I'm seeing more and more cracks with it every day. I'm not usually a fan of using just a letter or two letters for your logo, because it's 1) boring 2) overdone 3) makes you look like a highschool or college team and 4) doesn't communicate your branding well. When I look at it, I think "Samoan Tribal Tatoo" not "Hamilton Forge Soccer" I'll be honest, part of me googled Klingon alphabet to see if someone pulled a prank, just for kicks. It's just kinda...there, if they don't put it on a shield with some words, I'd be concerned people would just think the logo is some kind of clothing line.

I would have gone with a Hammer smashing an Anvil with golden sparks coming out on it, on a black shield back drop so the sparks also look like stars, but I can't complain as I can't design it myself.

Great post.  I agree with almost everything.  Probably why I like drinking beer with you.  

Off to bed after driving 8 hours and being up 22 hours for a family wedding in the Soo.

Edited July 14, 2018 by baulderdash77

[masster]

21 hours ago, Ansem said:

Being on DAZN would be smart, especially since they got the Champions League exclusive rights in Canada. I'm that close to get it...if only they had Premier League as well...

I always thought that CBC was the best choice, TV-wise as it's coast to coast for free...can't beat that kind of exposure. 

The V Cup semifinals aren't even  on TV and it's crazy that DAZN got exclusive rights to Champions League. That means that both Rogers and Bell didn't put up much of a fight for them and we all know they can. I don't think they get paid much for year 1 of CPL. If a digital media is willing to pay a premium for exclusivity I get why they are considering it, but yeah, I prefer they show the product on TV.

I don't understand. They have Champions League, Europa League, Spain, Italy, France, English Championship, and MLS. And that is just soccer. But they need to get more? No wonder people call soccer fans cheap.

[masster]

22 hours ago, Ansem said:

Looking at the Year One roster requirements, I'm relief that teams will have more flexibility than we all expected. So my understanding is 

• Half the roster must be Canadian...so up to 12 players would be allowed to be foreigners
• No more than 5 imports on the pitch at a time
• $3-4 millions...Salary or all expenses?

I would like to to see the rule for Canadians on the pitch adjusted. You should have a minimum number of Canadians that have to start, as well as a minimum number of Canadians in the game day 18. But thats it. I don't like rules outlining the minimum number of Canadians on the pitch at any one time. That limits the options for the manager. What happens if you start 6 Canadians and one of them is your starting striker and he gets injured. The striker you have on the bench as a like for like sub is an import. That means you are potentially handcuffed and could not bring him on without having to make another substitution as well. That doesn't sit well with me.

There should be rules for the team sheet to begin the game, but once the whistle is blown, the coach should be free to manage his team as he sees fit.

[Bison44]

9 minutes ago, masster said:

I would like to to see the rule for Canadians on the pitch adjusted. You should have a minimum number of Canadians that have to start, as well as a minimum number of Canadians in the game day 18. But thats it. I don't like rules outlining the minimum number of Canadians on the pitch at any one time. That limits the options for the manager. What happens if you start 6 Canadians and one of them is your starting striker and he gets injured. The striker you have on the bench as a like for like sub is an import. That means you are potentially handcuffed and could not bring him on without having to make another substitution as well. That doesn't sit well with me.

There should be rules for the team sheet to begin the game, but once the whistle is blown, the coach should be free to manage his team as he sees fit.

Agree 100%.  I always wondered about that, it does seem like you are needlessly handicapping the manager to make substitutions in a game that already limits them.  I will be happy if there is a low % of imports (gameday) and a reasonable number of CDN starters.  And I am sure that these rules are not set in stone and will be tweaked depending on how well it works in future years.  If we see alot of CDN thrown in games out of position  etc just to make the numbers work it would make the product on the field worse, and tarnish the league.  

[Tigers]

The CFL has the same rule. You just need to have a similar nationality backup for that position.  Or yes, shuffle elsewhere.  

[Rheo]

Now I really wonder who started a Windsor CPL supporter Twitter group if it wasn’t me lol.  

[SpursFlu]

I don't like the players on the field quota. It can make for a ridiculous situation like a sub already made then an injury, now all of a sudden you have a defender playing forward or maybe even a backup keeper having to play the field. Seems Mickey mouse

 

Simple math tells me a max 5 import players per roster and everything else works itself out

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Agreed on that last bit. Beyond the strange substitution scenarios that could happen having people playing who are perceived by their teammates to only be getting a game for quota reasons will create tensions that most coaches are not going to want to have to deal with.