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10 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

I get what he's saying, but supporters can't and shouldn't be expected to carry that much water for the league. I'm open to hoping that you're right as per their marketing strategy post WC, but I can't help but worry that it's a missed opportunity.

I'm sure WC ads are expensive but there's something to be said about putting your full weight behind something when the fulcrum is in the optimal position. 

CPL can go all in on marketing once ALL the teams for 2019 are revealed, stadium situations clarified, all aspects of the league unveiled and kits available.

Until then...little point in going all in now.

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4 minutes ago, Rheo said:

This is all just my guess based on what I've read/heard and assume

Who watches commercials at half time or pre/post game?  It's not like baseball or hockey with lots of commercial breaks during the game.  When I'm watching a World Cup game at half I'm stretching my legs, talking about the game or using the bathroom.

Is a 30 second tv spot going to make that much of an impact if people are watching commercials?  How much are casual fans going to retain? 

I will admit I'm a bit surprised they aren't advertising during the Cup but I can see it given certain high costs and questionable end results.

I'm mostly thinking back to when I was a teenager, the whole family gathered in front of the TV for the world cup, and imagining the conversation that would start if something like a condensed version of the launch video came on

Wouldn't work for everyone but I think traditional marketing would greatly increase the footprint they've made outside of the Canada soccer-centric fans

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13 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Before Nathan gets mauled for this by people with stronger opinions on this, I want to point out that Nathan went to decent lengths in an entirely unpaid capacity to talk with all relevant parties and be as fair as possible 

Still reading this but anyone who mauls him does it with some kind of bias.  Finding it very fair, educational and a great look at the developmental system we rarely get.

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4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

They clearly are aiming for CPL, however, the stadium situation is the biggest hold up I think

"they" being Barry is not an assumption I would make. We'll see how things pan out in KW but (as I think has been leaked elsewhere), the ownership may not look the way people assumed earlier. 

I'm not going to pass along 3rd hand info but I believe one of the KW guys spilled some beans regarding Barry's involvement elsewhere 

Edited by Complete Homer

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12 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

"they" being Barry is not an assumption I would make. We'll see how things pan out in KW but (as I think has been leaked elsewhere), the ownership may not look the way people assumed earlier. 

I'm not going to pass along 3rd hand info but I believe one of the KW guys spilled some beans regarding Barry's involvement elsewhere 

Someone on here did say Barry was not involved any longer earlier this month.  Last public report from this March when DC was in the area they met 

  • League officials recently met with local soccer supporters and interested team owner Barry MacLean at a Waterloo eatery as part of a cross-country trip to gauge interest from various communities it considers franchise contenders.

https://www.therecord.com/sports-story/8291131-canadian-pro-soccer-league-still-high-on-waterloo-region/

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9 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Might be prohibitively expensive to get ad time when ratings are into seven figures?

Fair point, but if ever there was a time to reach your target audience...

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14 minutes ago, C2SKI said:

Fair point, but if ever there was a time to reach your target audience...

You might not reach more of your target audience per single ad but if you can probably get say 10 ads after the World Cup than during, which is more effective?

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13 minutes ago, DrummingInMySleep said:

You might not reach more of your target audience per single ad but if you can probably get say 10 ads after the World Cup than during, which is more effective?

Why would more soccer fans be tuning in after the world cup than any other time of the year? I've never watched a gymnastics event apart from the olympics; before or after.

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47 minutes ago, C2SKI said:

Why would more soccer fans be tuning in after the world cup than any other time of the year? I've never watched a gymnastics event apart from the olympics; before or after.

MLS? UEFA Champions' League play-offs? UEFA Europa League play-offs? Why do you need to just reach soccer fans? Why not put an ad on during a Jays game? Why not put an ad on during a CFL game?

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1 hour ago, C2SKI said:

Why would more soccer fans be tuning in after the world cup than any other time of the year? I've never watched a gymnastics event apart from the olympics; before or after.

It’s not that the CPL target audience will be particularly clustered after the World Cup, it’s that EVERYONE an ad could reach, hardcore and soccer curious alike, would be at their most receptive. 

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2 hours ago, C2SKI said:

Why would more soccer fans be tuning in after the world cup than any other time of the year? I've never watched a gymnastics event apart from the olympics; before or after.

For the same reason I expect my pumpkin stocks to peak riiiiiight around January....... ;)

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4 minutes ago, dmont said:

For the same reason I expect my pumpkin stocks to peak riiiiiight around January....... ;)

You sir/madam the greatest voyageur to ever live

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https://www.google.ca/amp/s/deadspin.com/chart-the-average-player-salaries-in-soccer-leagues-ar-1658856283/amp

Article is from 2014 but just wondering where CPL would fit on this list. 100000 pounds converts to 176000 Canadian, which would be between Poland and Sweden. Although Poland only has 4 domestic players at the world Cup while Sweden has none. So would maybe need to have a higher average salary to attract national team level players. Excited to see where it ends up.

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22 hours ago, Rheo said:

This is all just my guess based on what I've read/heard and assume

Who watches commercials at half time or pre/post game?  It's not like baseball or hockey with lots of commercial breaks during the game.  When I'm watching a World Cup game at half I'm stretching my legs, talking about the game or using the bathroom.

Is a 30 second tv spot going to make that much of an impact if people are watching commercials?  How much are casual fans going to retain? 

I will admit I'm a bit surprised they aren't advertising during the Cup but I can see it given certain high costs and questionable end results.

But that isn't the only option. They could do something like put an ad before highlight videos on the web. Maybe local radio stations they could have ads around the sports reports or if games are being played on the radio. You are usually less likely to go to the washroom at halftime if you are listening to the radio, because let's face it, you are probably in a car.

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21 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/deadspin.com/chart-the-average-player-salaries-in-soccer-leagues-ar-1658856283/amp

Article is from 2014 but just wondering where CPL would fit on this list. 100000 pounds converts to 176000 Canadian, which would be between Poland and Sweden. Although Poland only has 4 domestic players at the world Cup while Sweden has none. So would maybe need to have a higher average salary to attract national team level players. Excited to see where it ends up.

I think that’s a little high.. I’d expect AHL level salaries around 65k average.

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23 hours ago, Rheo said:

Deep dive on what happened to KW United including CPL and L1

http://www.northernstartingeleven.com/what-happened-to-kw-united-fc/

The stadium problem is a good argument and probably should have been sufficient, but I think the other points are a bit lacking. As for the number of players that turn pro from KW United, does anybody have their numbers? I have a hard time believing it actually is more than L1O - TFC - women.

According to this list... https://cdn3.sportngin.com/attachments/document/0150/8969/Pro_List_-_L1O.pdf

L1O has had 62 men graduate from non-TFC teams to pro jobs since 2014. That's an average of 15.5 per season of operation (the numbers came out before the 2018 season). Are KW United really promoting more than 15 players per season to the pro ranks? That's almost an entire roster worth of players.

And the point about CPL being a potential solution to the pathway problems, but that's for the future, is not a strong point in my opinion. CPL is starting next season, so any L1O/PDL/USL/<insert any league here> players that they are signing they will be doing largely based on their 2018 season.

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1 hour ago, Kent said:

...L1O has had 62 men graduate from non-TFC teams to pro jobs since 2014...

Could be a case of different classifications of what constitutes a pro level job given playing in things like NPL Tasmania have been classified in that way by L1O on lists I have seen.

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2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Could be a case of different classifications of what constitutes a pro level job given playing in things like NPL Tasmania have been classified in that way by L1O on lists I have seen.

Probably, but I wonder if it's more simplified than that maybe? Like, are KW United only comparing themselves against how many L1O players go to MLS or USL? Are they counting anything outside of those leagues? Whatever Barry McLean's measurement is, it's hard to know how useful it is when he doesn't give the numbers.

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15 hours ago, Stryker911 said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/deadspin.com/chart-the-average-player-salaries-in-soccer-leagues-ar-1658856283/amp

Article is from 2014 but just wondering where CPL would fit on this list. 100000 pounds converts to 176000 Canadian, which would be between Poland and Sweden. Although Poland only has 4 domestic players at the world Cup while Sweden has none. So would maybe need to have a higher average salary to attract national team level players. Excited to see where it ends up.

I wouldn't exactly trust that chart 100%. Some of the leagues have teams have 2 or 3 sides paying insane amounts above everyone else (I believe in Scotland some clubs pay about USL levels for some talent while Celtic are paying everyone in the 500k GBP range). I would question if Marcus Haber is making more than 100k GBP even with a league average of nearly double it.

I would say look at this piece on the pay gaps between the EPL, Championship, League One and League Two the Daily Mail did in 2016. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3456453/Mind-gap-Premier-League-wages-soar-average-salaries-2014-15-season-1-7million-rest-creep-along.html

It's typically been said that the CanMNT targets those in at least D3 between England and Germany. I would say CPL might be paying in the League Two range to start (maybe a little less) on average which should be enough to bring in some CanMNT or weaker CONCACAF NT talent on the higher end salaries.

Edited by matty

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1 hour ago, Rheo said:

Luckily I don’t think basketball, hockey or lacrosse are worries as the seasons don’t run together or share facilities.  However, this CFL stuff is worrying.. I remember years ago reading about CFL looking to expand our east but not sure if this is the same group. I don’t think it would be sustainable but would certainly pull fans from the “we finally have a pro team” group.  Similar to how the new Vegas nfl team will most likely run over the golden knights for those fans. 

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On 6/21/2018 at 9:43 AM, Stryker911 said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/deadspin.com/chart-the-average-player-salaries-in-soccer-leagues-ar-1658856283/amp

Article is from 2014 but just wondering where CPL would fit on this list. 100000 pounds converts to 176000 Canadian, which would be between Poland and Sweden. Although Poland only has 4 domestic players at the world Cup while Sweden has none. So would maybe need to have a higher average salary to attract national team level players. Excited to see where it ends up.

13 hours ago, matty said:

I wouldn't exactly trust that chart 100%. Some of the leagues have teams have 2 or 3 sides paying insane amounts above everyone else (I believe in Scotland some clubs pay about USL levels for some talent while Celtic are paying everyone in the 500k GBP range). I would question if Marcus Haber is making more than 100k GBP even with a league average of nearly double it.

I would say look at this piece on the pay gaps between the EPL, Championship, League One and League Two the Daily Mail did in 2016. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3456453/Mind-gap-Premier-League-wages-soar-average-salaries-2014-15-season-1-7million-rest-creep-along.html

It's typically been said that the CanMNT targets those in at least D3 between England and Germany. I would say CPL might be paying in the League Two range to start (maybe a little less) on average which should be enough to bring in some CanMNT or weaker CONCACAF NT talent on the higher end salaries.

We're dreaming if we think they're going to offer players anything in those ranges. I foresee the average salary being somewhere just below the South African league, which means we still shouldn't expect to see Canadian players coming back to Canada in droves unless they can make a lot more in CPL than where ever they are plying their trade now.

Assume a $1-1.5 million salary cap. For a 26-man roster, that averages to $38-57 thousand dollars per player. I'm sure that some Canadian players would jump at the chance to make that much at home, but others will probably make more playing in other leagues. Spectators shouldn't expect high-quality soccer and CPL would do well to temper expectations. Players that do show brilliance will be quickly sold off to MLS or Europe so I really don't see the player quality being much different than what I'm watching in Ottawa right now. But this is not a bad thing - a good coach with an entertaining system will go a long way to making it watchable. I'm thinking of the difference between what I've seen between the OFFC coaching reigns of Paul Dalglish and Nikola Popovic: the former had a plodding and uninspired style while the latter has the team playing interesting soccer, though both had roughly the same pool of players.

tl;dr - Choosing the players isn't the most important part, it's choosing the right coaches.

 

Edited by Initial B

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