CPL General

[Shakmur]

As Matty pointed out, the playoff format is the usual one in Concacaf and wouldnt be outta place. It's also great for sparking and showcasing rivalries. I also agree with Unnamed trialist about the consistency and rigor of the league winner and would like to see them get the CCL spot if the CanPL was to gain one. If this was the case then i'd have the playoff champion in the Voyageurs cup, etc.

So i guess the best case scenario to me would all depend on if we get a CCL spot, how many Voyageurs cup spots, and then see.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Shakmur

[matty]

11 minutes ago, C2SKI said:

Without relegation or playoffs, games near the end of the season could become meaningless for much of the league. That being said, I'd still prefer a single table to decide the champion. My biggest worry is that we'll end up with teams intentionally throwing games in a race to the bottom for draft picks. I despise that

 

7 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

The major flaw with Single Table and no playoffs is when there's no promotion/relegation.  I know the CanPL is talking about that, but that's a ways off (if they're even able to implement it).  So you're going to end up with teams at the bottom of the table and nothing to play for.  That's hard to sell to fans.

The single table with neither play-offs or pro-rel is a massive gamble (and it's fucking experimental as to whether fans will care). While they seem set on doing pro/rel, they should have some kind of deadline for it and if it passes and pro/rel is still ages away playoffs need to be looked at.

Edited June 5, 2018 by matty

[Keegan]

7 minutes ago, Shakmur said:

As Matty pointed out, the playoff format is the usual one in Concacaf and wouldnt be outta place. It's also great for sparking and showcasing rivalries. I also agree with Unnamed trialist about the consistency and rigor of the league winner and would like to see them get the CCL spot if the CanPL was to gain one. If this was the case then i'd have the playoff champion in the Voyageur cup, etc.

So i guess the best case scenario to me would all depend on if we get a CCL spot, how many Voyageur cup spots, and then see.

Are you suggesting CPL teams qualify for the Voyageurs cup?  Not happening, every team will be in.  You don’t need to win our domestic league to be in our cup that’s just crazy talk.

Also I’m not sure if many are aware but concacaf has a Europa league style competition where the winner goes to concacaf champions league.  We should look to get a couple spots in that as well.  We could have our winner and the voyageurs cup winner go direct and then 2/3 go to the Europa league tourney.. that would be consistent with how other leagues are treated.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Keegan

[matty]

3 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Are you suggesting CPL teams qualify for the Voyageurs cup?  Not happening, every team will be in.  You don’t need to win our domestic league to be in our cup that’s just crazy talk.

Also I’m not sure if many are aware but concacaf has a Europa league style competition where the winner goes to concacaf champions league.  We should look to get a couple spots in that as well.  We could have our winner and the voyageurs cup winner go direct and then 2/3 go to the Europa league tourney.. that would be consistent with how other leagues are treated.

Fully agree every team should be in the VCup.

The thing with CCL is I see the CPL having to prove itself in order to get a slot in the CCL. That Europa style thing is how I see it going with the CPL champ going into that competition (similar to what happens with the Belize league).

[Shakmur]

15 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Are you suggesting CPL teams qualify for the Voyageurs cup?  Not happening, every team will be in.  You don’t need to win our domestic league to be in our cup that’s just crazy talk.

nah, I'm not, sorry for the brainfart. I guess I have Wednesdays game between Oakville and Blainville in my mind and how semi-pro teams have just finally been admitted. I hope they keep expanding on that.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Shakmur

[matty]

Just regarding pro/rel, what do people think is the minimal number of teams needed to explore it as an option? I know some Euro leagues have as few as 6 in the top flight and 8 in tier 2 but 14 seems to few to me. 16 to 20 seem like nice numbers to work with. What do you guys think?

I know there are other concerning questions about it (like when, how do you expand more once introduce, how to you decide who is tier 2 in year one of it. ect) but this is a pretty easy Q that I'm kind of curious to see what people think.

[Keegan]

5 hours ago, matty said:

Just regarding pro/rel, what do people think is the minimal number of teams needed to explore it as an option? I know some Euro leagues have as few as 6 in the top flight and 8 in tier 2 but 14 seems to few to me. 16 to 20 seem like nice numbers to work with. What do you guys think?

I know there are other concerning questions about it (like when, how do you expand more once introduce, how to you decide who is tier 2 in year one of it. ect) but this is a pretty easy Q that I'm kind of curious to see what people think.

I think it has to be at least 8 and 8 to be viable.  At 14 you may as well do one league. 

[BuzzAndSting]

1 minute ago, Keegan said:

I think it has to be at least 8 and 8 to be viable.  At 14 you may as well do one league. 

With 1 team going each way?

[Keegan]

Just now, BuzzAndSting said:

With 1 team going each way?

1 plus a playoff would probably be best.

[Copes]

On 6/1/2018 at 5:29 PM, BuzzAndSting said:

So there's still some secrets out there! With the Fraser Valley team all but dead who is the possible 9th for next year?! 

For my own organization;

2019 for sure: Hamilton, Winnipeg, York 9, Cavalry FC, HFX Wanderers

2019 probably: Victoria

2019 maybe: FC Edmonton, Ottawa Fury

2019 unknown: Saskatchewan? Southern Ontario? Quebec? There's one more group that is theoretically possible for 2019 and we don't have a clue who it is! Crazy!

As for 2020 there would be another 3-4 groups with the Saskatchewan group being one of them. 

This has the potential to become the largest professional sports league in Canada in 2 years, crazy!

Just an update here - don't want to get into details but I did hear a rumour that St. John's may be further along in talks than I thought. Complete heresay, and i'm not sure how much I value the knowledge of the source. They claimed they heard that St. John's was trying to be ready for launch. That seems like a long-shot to me, but maybe 2020 isn't unreasonable to expect.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Not sure it really is a long-shot given they have by far the most problematic issue already sorted out, i.e. a suitably sized soccer-specific stadium, if there is somebody willing to sign the cheques, which is the other major stumbling block obviously. If CanPL is going to have both Victoria and Halifax on board at launch, St John's doesn't look in any way out of place at this point. My guess would be that either Ottawa or Edmonton not being involved would be their way in, if nothing untoward related to hydro poles happens in Victoria.

[C2SKI]

1 hour ago, Copes said:

Just an update here - don't want to get into details but I did hear a rumour that St. John's may be further along in talks than I thought. Complete heresay, and i'm not sure how much I value the knowledge of the source. They claimed they heard that St. John's was trying to be ready for launch. That seems like a long-shot to me, but maybe 2020 isn't unreasonable to expect.

That would be incredible

[IAmPappy]

Random question: Does the CPL have an official position on MLS, USL, and PDL clubs based in Canada? I haven’t seen anything, but if pressed, I would hope that they would align to the following talking points:

1. The CPL wishes all non-CPL clubs in Canada all the success and looks forward to competitive V-Cup matches. 

2. The CPL will always welcome non-CPL clubs into the league at whatever time it makes sense for each club and their supporters. 

3. The CPL encourages the CSA to grand-father all existing non-CPL clubs (MLS, USL, PDL, ...) and let them manage their business as they wish. 

4. The CPL encourages the CSA to sanction new clubs only into the Canadian pyramid. 

Thoughts?

Edited June 5, 2018 by IAmPappy

[Complete Homer]

On 6/4/2018 at 4:15 PM, Keegan said:

I think we need a study here because I see it totally different.  I think any fan of any sport wants their league format to mirror that of the top level in that sport.  In hockey that is playoffs but in soccer, whether you are a hardcore fan or not, you recognize that as a league table.  

Baby boomers may be less understanding but millennials are connected and understand.  They see just as much European soccer as nhl hockey coverage through the web and tv and their perception of top level soccer is a league table akin to the premier league.  Playoffs still exist but they take shape in the form of domestic and continental cup competitions.  

I even have non soccer fans ask me why MLS has playoffs - to a lot of people it’s odd not to follow the traditional model.  Imagine if the KHL operated a league table and tried to copy their football league.. hardcore or not that just looks bush league and fewer people give it a chance.

Tradition starts at the top and flows down.  It’s like if a lawyer came in a Canadian tuxedo.. he may be the best lawyer out there and a few people may know that but to a casual person who knows nothing they know that’s not how a lawyer is supposed to look and write them off. 

Even to use MLS as an example.. the league was a joke it’s first 10 years as it had an amateur image... football lines, Mickey Mouse team names, lack of stadiums or culture.  Suddenly you get team names like “Toronto fc” “Orlando city” “Atlanta united” and the league is taken more and more serious.  KC wizards were a joke but Sporting KC is a whole new ball game.  The more MLS has moved toward European/South American styles the more it has grown. 

That's a good point. I suppose I'm thinking of the type of person who doesn't necessarily know the traditional format, but perhaps they are becoming fewer and fewer

[masster]

9 hours ago, matty said:

Just regarding pro/rel, what do people think is the minimal number of teams needed to explore it as an option? I know some Euro leagues have as few as 6 in the top flight and 8 in tier 2 but 14 seems to few to me. 16 to 20 seem like nice numbers to work with. What do you guys think?

I know there are other concerning questions about it (like when, how do you expand more once introduce, how to you decide who is tier 2 in year one of it. ect) but this is a pretty easy Q that I'm kind of curious to see what people think.

In an ideal world, I feel like a first division should have at least 12 clubs, like the Sottish Premiership. CPL should work to that as the first step.

[Initial B]

4 hours ago, Keegan said:

I think it has to be at least 8 and 8 to be viable.  At 14 you may as well do one league. 

If I was to do a pro-rel league for Canada, I think I would set it up like the Rugby League in England that the Toronto Wolfpack play in:

Structure: One 8-team First Division.  Two Regional Second Divisions, East and West (between 7-10 clubs).

Format: Spring Season: Each club plays every other club twice, once at home and once away (14 games) in divisions with no crossover. At the end of the season, the bottom two teams from Div 1 and the top two teams from each Div 2 league are grouped into a "Super Six" League to fight for promotion back to Div 1 the following spring.

Fall Season/Playoffs: The Standings for each division are reset to 0 points and each club plays every other club twice, once at home and once away (10-14 games) in division with no crossover. At the end of the season, the top team in the Div 1 table wins the Cup and a place in the CONCACAF League (not CCL) the following year. The top two teams in the Super Six are promoted to Div 1 and the other 4 teams are relegated to their respective Regional Div 2. The top team in each fall Season Regional Div will win a Regional Shield. 

The regional grouping of the East-West Div 2 teams will help control travel costs and they will also play more games to offset the lessened TV revenue potential.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Initial B

[Rheo]

 

Wow, excellent, excellent news.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Rheo

[ted]

19 hours ago, Bison44 said:

So by doing things exactly the way every other soccer league does it is being unique and interesting??  Not following other sports like sheep is good, but following other soccer leagues like sheep is ok??   Just checking.....

Yes. Sorry if this is too subtle for you.

 In the North American sports market, where playoffs are common to many sports, soccer is unique and interesting in having two concurrent competitions that produce a league and cup champion.

And BTW, while this is common around the world, it is NOT, "exactly the way every other soccer league does it". I assumed a level of knowledge you apparently do not possess, sorry about that. There are alternatives (ie MLS, Apetura/Clausura) but the dual track is a common and easily marketable feature of soccer.

[C2SKI]

Were we expecting this announcement today? Fantastic news!

[ThatDaveCh]

5 minutes ago, Rheo said:

 

Wow, excellent, excellent news.

SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKERS!

[Rheo]

1 minute ago, ThatDaveCh said:

SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKERS!

That's my shocked not shocked news lol.  Most assumed it was happening but really nice to see it 100%

[shermanator]

Al Classico is about to get mental.

Congrats to everyone in the YEG4CPL movement. I'm not going to bother with banter, you should enjoy your moment.

Edited June 5, 2018 by shermanator

[Bison44]

5 minutes ago, ted said:

Yes. Sorry if this is too subtle for you.

 In the North American sports market, where playoffs are common to many sports, soccer is unique and interesting in having two concurrent competitions that produce a league and cup champion.

And BTW, while this is common around the world, it is NOT, "exactly the way every other soccer league does it". I assumed a level of knowledge you apparently do not possess, sorry about that. There are alternatives (ie MLS, Apetura/Clausura) but the dual track is a common and easily marketable feature of soccer.

So if it is common to have playoffs (I was waiting for you to acknowledge that) then playoffs could also be a "common and easily marketable feature of soccer."  It doesnt really matter which you and I prefer, we are hardcores and will support the league either way.  Ultimately they will decide which way they want to go with it, and I would think part of it would be based on how many teams are ready to go, which brings me to....

Congrats to Edmonton!!!!  So happy they are going to be involved.  I especially like the bit in the video about "city approved".  Maybe that means they have the stadium situation worked out??  Super excited to see WPG rollout and hopefully Edmonton before the WC starts.  

[Aird25]

49 minutes ago, Initial B said:

If I was to do a pro-rel league for Canada, I think I would set it up like the Rugby League in England that the Toronto Wolfpack play in:

Structure: One 8-team First Division.  Two Regional Second Divisions, East and West (between 7-10 clubs).

Format: Spring Season: Each club plays every other club twice, once at home and once away (14 games) in divisions with no crossover. At the end of the season, the bottom two teams from Div 1 and the top two teams from each Div 2 league are grouped into a "Super Six" League to fight for promotion back to Div 1 the following spring.

Fall Season/Playoffs: The Standings for each division are reset to 0 points and each club plays every other club twice, once at home and once away (10-14 games) in division with no crossover. At the end of the season, the top team in the Div 1 table wins the Cup and a place in the CONCACAF League (not CCL) the following year. The top two teams in the Super Six are promoted to Div 1 and the other 4 teams are relegated to their respective Regional Div 2. The top team in each fall Season Regional Div will win a Regional Shield. 

The regional grouping of the East-West Div 2 teams will help control travel costs and they will also play more games to offset the lessened TV revenue potential.

I completely agree with regional Div 2 leagues, but I've never understood separate spring and fall schedules. If needed, I'd rather just have a 'winter break' with a continued table.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

16 minutes ago, ThatDaveCh said:

SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKERS!

If Victoria and Calgary are OK with 5000 seats to start rather than what we were told at one point was the entry point at 7000 with expandability, I guess FCE didn't really need the expansion of Clarke Stadium quite so badly after all, and it was a series 6 or 7 announcements that was mentioned at one point with FCE being the obvious candidate to be #7.  Ottawa probably won't want to announce until near the end of their season, if they are on board.