CPL General

[Rheo]

Rosters starting this summer https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/996813984304156672?s=21

[Kent]

43 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Rosters starting this summer https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/996813984304156672?s=21

I don't remember where, but there was an article already that mentioned summer as when the first signings would be happening for York 9.

[Rheo]

1 minute ago, Kent said:

I don't remember where, but there was an article already that mentioned summer as when the first signings would be happening for York 9.

Either I missed that one or read it and don't remember that part lol.  Although to be honest it appears that Ottawa and Calgary have been semi-building their teams already.  Smart though to get some names as quick as possible to get them into the community and keep the hype up.

[Kent]

8 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Either I missed that one or read it and don't remember that part lol.  Although to be honest it appears that Ottawa and Calgary have been semi-building their teams already.  Smart though to get some names as quick as possible to get them into the community and keep the hype up.

Found it in the York 9 thread. As I suspected (since you've done an incredible job of finding and posting news) you were the one that sent out the link;)

http://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/canadian-premier-league-unveils-york-9-fc-in-soccer-hotbed-york-region

It's mentioned just below the manifesto video in that article.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Kent
More info given.

[Rheo]

1 minute ago, Kent said:

Found it in the York 9 thread. As I suspected (since you've done an incredible job of finding and posting news) you were the one that sent out the link;)

http://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/canadian-premier-league-unveils-york-9-fc-in-soccer-hotbed-york-region

Yep missed it lol. When you get a whole bunch of articles at once, it's easy to skim things when there's a lot of repetition of themes/quotes.  Thanks

[Zem]

Good to hear, I was hoping the clubs would start signing players in summer 2018 and then loan them out for a half-season like some of the newer MLS clubs have done. This way it'll be easier to sign guys currently playing in Europe before the season starts and it should hopefully help improve the league's player quality in the first season.

[Gopherbashi]

7 hours ago, Rheo said:

Rosters starting this summer https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/996813984304156672?s=21

There are Canadian players who haven't been signed by OFFC??

[Rheo]

5 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

There are Canadian players who haven't been signed by OFFC??

I think it’s just Arfield

[HfxCeltic]

9 hours ago, Rheo said:

I think it’s just Arfield

Sooooo, Arfield to quit Rangers and sign for Halifax you're saying?

Edited May 17, 2018 by HfxCeltic

[zeelaw]

This might be late in the convo here, but I'm shocked to see how Pro/Rel is close in the poll.

To me, pro/rel is one of the most interesting ways to keep a league exciting the entire year.  Are people voting no because they feel it won't make the league economically viable, or just out of belief it's a lesser system?

[Rheo]

6 minutes ago, zeelaw1555362314 said:

This might be late in the convo here, but I'm shocked to see how Pro/Rel is close in the poll.

To me, pro/rel is one of the most interesting ways to keep a league exciting the entire year.  Are people voting no because they feel it won't make the league economically viable, or just out of belief it's a lesser system?

The poll is really old to be fair.  I originally voted against it because I didn't see it being an realistic in the North American sporting market.  I assumed that the thought wouldn't cross their mind and wouldn't be an option.  However I was wrong and as time has gone on and they've put forward their general plan I would definitely vote different today.

[baulderdash77]

I voted no because I don’t see how we’re going to have a full table of 20 D1 teams with another 10+ D2 teams below it just itching to get promoted.  It’s unnecessary if the league is going to be 16 teams.

[Complete Homer]

17 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

I voted no because I don’t see how we’re going to have a full table of 20 D1 teams with another 10+ D2 teams below it just itching to get promoted.  It’s unnecessary if the league is going to be 16 teams.

On that note, I think it was either Beirne or Clanachan that recently had a bit of a different take on their approach to pro/rel than we had heard (might have been Beirne on Rich Clarke's podcast). They were talking about building up to 16 teams, then stopping expansion until they had enough new clubs ready for a stable second tier. 

That's a bit different than splitting the league in two when they hit 16 teams. Probably a smarter move for stability, but probably lowers the probability that we'll get to a point that it actually happens. Fingers crossed, but it's a lot harder to see 24+ stable pro clubs here than 16 in my opinion 

[ChrisinOrleans]

39 minutes ago, zeelaw1555362314 said:

This might be late in the convo here, but I'm shocked to see how Pro/Rel is close in the poll.

To me, pro/rel is one of the most interesting ways to keep a league exciting the entire year.  Are people voting no because they feel it won't make the league economically viable, or just out of belief it's a lesser system?

I don’t think that we need promotion or relegation if our league is fewer than 20 teams. The financial downsides are a consideration, but I mostly just consider the entire idea superfluous.

[Ivan]

They have also invited TFCII, VWC II and Impact II to the second division.  If they agree, that is a quick add of 3 teams to Div. 2.

[Complete Homer]

17 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I don’t think that we need promotion or relegation if our league is fewer than 20 teams. The financial downsides are a consideration, but I mostly just consider the entire idea superfluous.

In the absence of playoffs, I would argue that promotion/relegation adds much needed drama for the half of the table with no chance to win the league fairly early in the season. I would agree implementing at 16 teams is a bit early but I think it has to come eventually 

I just don't think Canadian soccer fans, even converts to the game that are pretty fanatical, have grown up in a sporting context where we are supposed to care about a 7th vs 5th place finish. I am all for going as authentic as you can, but I think it's a bit of a misstep assuming that Canadian fans will find games in the second half of the season meaningful without a playoff race or a relegation battle. 

The majority of sports fans in Canada were raised on hockey, and while many became soccer fans because it was their favourite sport to play, I think the framework in which we think about what games are meaningful is still heavily influenced by hockey. Hockey fans only remember how far you went in the playoffs in a given year, no one remembers the position in the table they achieved

Many Canadians are fans of overseas leagues obviously, but aside from expats I question how many are actually following mid to low table teams frequently. The teams that seem to get the most attention here are either teams in contention for major titles or yo-yo teams that have the underdog appeal. Those in the middle seem to get forgotten

Edited May 17, 2018 by Complete Homer

[Kent]

On 5/31/2017 at 10:02 PM, lazlo_80 said:

RIP General Discussion thread

Born May 31 2017 

Died May 31 2017

Haha, the mention that the poll is old got me curious to remind myself when exactly this thread was started, so I went to the first page. This comment was funny and seemed accurate at the time, but almost a year and 230+ pages later I guess it didn't really pan out after all. 

Also interesting is that the guy that started this thread and made the first 2 comments has only ever made 20 posts.

[zen]

I'm not very enthusiastic about all these suburban stadium sites. I don't mean to say stadiums in the suburbs, that's fine. I'm talking about building stadiums in areas without other entertainment options within a 20-30 minute walk. MLS figured out downtown stadiums are what make the teams tick, I think that rule should apply to the CPL as well.

Having said that I'm not too familiar with the areas talked about such as Spruce Meadows for Calgary, or some of the other rumoured stadium locations in other cities. Can someone chime in please?

Edited May 17, 2018 by zen

[Zem]

2 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I don’t think that we need promotion or relegation if our league is fewer than 20 teams. The financial downsides are a consideration, but I mostly just consider the entire idea superfluous.

The opportunity to have more professional clubs in Canada and a more competitive top flight is far from superfluous. I'm not sure I understand how having 16 clubs in the CPL is any reason to not have a second tier, if having 20 clubs in the top tier is particularly desirable for some reason, then presumably you'd want to have those four clubs somewhere.

[ChrisinOrleans]

18 minutes ago, Zem said:

The opportunity to have more professional clubs in Canada and a more competitive top flight is far from superfluous. I'm not sure I understand how having 16 clubs in the CPL is any reason to not have a second tier, if having 20 clubs in the top tier is particularly desirable for some reason, then presumably you'd want to have those four clubs somewhere.

At no point did I imply that having more than 20 clubs was superfluous. I said that the idea of promotion and relegation was. 

We could have 100 clubs. But I don't want FC Flin Flon and CS Tracadie to be in the top flight with stadiums of 200 people, regardless of their calibre. 

[mpg_29]

37 minutes ago, zen said:

I'm not very enthusiastic about all these suburban stadium sites. I don't mean to say stadiums in the suburbs, that's fine. I'm talking about building stadiums in areas without other entertainment options within a 20-30 minute walk. MLS figured out downtown stadiums are what make the teams tick, I think that rule should apply to the CPL as well.

Having said that I'm not too familiar with the areas talked about such as Spruce Meadows for Calgary, or some of the other rumoured stadium locations in other cities. Can someone chime in please?

The first few years is going to be rough in terms of the stadium situations...

I just hope the league can get through it until new stadiums come online.

[ted]

39 minutes ago, zen said:

I'm not very enthusiastic about all these suburban stadium sites. I don't mean to say stadiums in the suburbs, that's fine. I'm talking about building stadiums in areas without other entertainment options within a 20-30 minute walk.

Yep, this is the objection I have to the Westhills project in Victoria. There may be more now, but back in the first couple of seasons with the Highlanders at that location (then known as City Center Park) there was almost nothing anywhere close. There is is a little more now, but it is still a "suburban" facility that requires you to leave in a vehicle and travel to clubs, bars etc.

On the plus side, the renderings look amazing and if the team organizes shuttles to and from pubs, like those early years of the Highlanders,  it won't be horrible.

[Zem]

2 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

At no point did I imply that having more than 20 clubs was superfluous. I said that the idea of promotion and relegation was. 

We could have 100 clubs. But I don't want FC Flin Flon and CS Tracadie to be in the top flight with stadiums of 200 people, regardless of their calibre. 

That's very unlikely to happen given the financial base of clubs like that and in reality the vast majority of clubs that would make it would be similar in calibre to bottom-end CPL clubs. It's not worth throwing out the whole system because of some imaginary scenario where clubs based in towns of 5,000-10,000 people are getting in while clubs from bigger cities like London and St. John's somehow aren't.

[Rheo]

I personally think too much is being made about the stadiums but that's par for the course on the internet lol.  Over the years among the things I've heard that can/will doom the league and/or teams include

1. stadium location
2. lines on the field
3. tracks around the field
4. artificial turf
5. the use of the word soccer
6. club names
7. club crests
8. being called teams or franchises and not clubs
9. owner talking about making money
10. playoffs
11. not having playoffs
12. promotion and relegation
13. not having promotion and relegation

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting but you get the idea. 

From everything I've seen, read and heard I believe that the people doing the CPL know what they're doing.  Is everything going to be perfect?  Of course not but they seem to know that the atmosphere for the games is a big selling point in getting people invested in their teams.   If they can get that right then they can overcome any of the above "problems" that people project.

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Rheo said:

I personally think too much is being made about the stadiums but that's par for the course on the internet lol.  Over the years among the things I've heard that can/will doom the league and/or teams include

1. stadium location
2. lines on the field
3. tracks around the field
4. artificial turf
5. the use of the word soccer
6. club names
7. club crests
8. being called teams or franchises and not clubs
9. owner talking about making money
10. playoffs
11. not having playoffs
12. promotion and relegation
13. not having promotion and relegation

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting but you get the idea. 

From everything I've seen, read and heard I believe that the people doing the CPL know what they're doing.  Is everything going to be perfect?  Of course not but they seem to know that the atmosphere for the games is a big selling point in getting people invested in their teams.   If they can get that right then they can overcome any of the above "problems" that people project.

A good list, but the obvious one you missed was...

14. a lack of a countdown to the kick off of the first game a year in advance.