CPL General

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

they had already effectively sabotaged their chances of ever making it work in numbers terms by not reaching a reasonable compromise with MLSE

What reasonable compromise? 

TFC III? Maybe TFC II?

Doing business with an organization who's league takes passive aggressive shots at It?

The same MLSE who flat out branded CPL as competition if they ever dared having a team in their market?

You're too funny!

Edited January 6, 2018 by Ansem

[A Different Perspective]

54 minutes ago, Ansem said:

What reasonable compromise? 

TFC III? Maybe TFC II?

Doing business with an organization who's league takes passive aggressive shots at It?

The same MLSE who flat out branded CPL as competition if they ever dared having a team in their market?

You're too funny!

Is there anyway MLSE could participate in the CPL?

The great irony is that MLS was started more then twenty years ago and didn't Lamar Hunt own and bankroll 7 teams - it achieved the sustainability.  Here we would say that's blasphemy and a major conflict of interest.  Sometimes the end justify the means - which is the development of Canadian soccer talent and infrastructure.  Certainly MLSE's financial and media muscle can't hurt.

Maybe MLSE could bankroll a CPL team that's focus is purely Canadian Talent that is owned 50/50 with a crowd-funded managment board, loan their US Prospects to other USL teams, and have rules for the Voyageur Cup that people here and elsewhere can live with.

 

 

 

[gator]

I personally don't want ML$E anywhere near the CPL, this league needs to have Canadian content from top to bottom, judging by how TFC is run that will not happen if they are involved!

[Bison44]

6 minutes ago, A Different Perspective said:

Is there anyway MLSE could participate in the CPL?

The great irony is that MLS was started more then twenty years ago and didn't Lamar Hunt own and bankroll 7 teams - it achieved the sustainability.  Here we would say that's blasphemy and a major conflict of interest.  Sometimes the end justify the means - which is the development of Canadian soccer talent and infrastructure.  Certainly MLSE's financial and media muscle can't hurt.

Maybe MLSE could bankroll a CPL team that's focus is purely Canadian Talent that is owned 50/50 with a crowd-funded managment board, loan their US Prospects to other USL teams, and have rules for the Voyageur Cup that people here and elsewhere can live with.

 

 

 

They could participate.  But many CPL boosters dont want to look like a minor league affiliate to MLS.  Might make it harder to get eyes on the product if its considered 2nd tier right off the bat (look at the arguments on whether it would be considered Div-1 vs Div 2 etc).  And I think MLSE would rather not have an independent entity playing in their sand box (GTA).  Plus the sports channels carrying CPL games of the week competing with MLS, plenty of things for MLSE to worry about.  Personally I would say go for it, if MLSE would out their money and muscle behind a second GTA team in a heavily CDN CPL that would be great.  But MLS and for the most part the CDN MLS teams have only given lip service to helping develop CDN players and refuse to level the playing field with the domestic status issue.  I am a big consumer of MLS and USL, but I dont think they are helping canadian soccer as much as they could and an independent CPL would be a better option.  

 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Think the viable compromise would have been an affiliate arrangement similar to what the Impact are doing at the moment with the Ottawa Fury and that type of arrangement could have been used to prop up a smaller market that would otherwise have struggled by reducing their player salary costs. A prominent poster on here claimed at one point to have been told that something like that might happen in a London, Ont context where it should be noted TFC are now closely aligned with FC London. No idea if there was ever any substance to that.

Edited January 6, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Ansem]

27 minutes ago, A Different Perspective said:

Is there anyway MLSE could participate in the CPL?

The great irony is that MLS was started more then twenty years ago and didn't Lamar Hunt own and bankroll 7 teams - it achieved the sustainability.  Here we would say that's blasphemy and a major conflict of interest.  Sometimes the end justify the means - which is the development of Canadian soccer talent and infrastructure.  Certainly MLSE's financial and media muscle can't hurt.

Maybe MLSE could bankroll a CPL team that's focus is purely Canadian Talent that is owned 50/50 with a crowd-funded managment board, loan their US Prospects to other USL teams, and have rules for the Voyageur Cup that people here and elsewhere can live with.

 

 

 

Until CPL drowns in debt and is on the verge of collapse, there's no incentive nor reason to do that. The league hasn't started yet. They have a business plan so let's let them carry it and see what happens.

We have to stop talking like the league is dead before it already started 

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Think the viable compromise would have been an affiliate arrangement similar to what the Impact are doing at the moment with the Ottawa Fury and that type of arrangement could have been used to prop up a smaller market that would otherwise have struggled by reducing their player salary costs. A prominent poster on here claimed at one point to have been told that it might happen in a London, Ont context where it should be noted TFC are now closely aligned with FC London. No idea if there was ever any substance to that.

There's no deal because MLSE and the other 2 obviously don't want to compromise. They want to participate under their terms and that will never make for  a healthy business relationship.

Whatever the Caps were proposing made the league ignore them up until this day while TFC proposal to put TFC II or III in their league was met with utter disgust 

A compromise would be MLSE being the wallet behind an independently ran team but it's crystal clear they aren't interested in that. So stop it with the compromise rhetoric 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Ansem

[A Different Perspective]

11 minutes ago, gator said:

I personally don't want ML$E anywhere near the CPL, this league needs to have Canadian content from top to bottom, judging by how TFC is run that will not happen if they are involved!

So there is no scenario or condition that you could see MLSE participate in the CPL - even if their participation lead to the CPL's successful launch, sustainability and evolvement.  You would rather endure 20 more years of waste with no National Domestic soccer league and keep our purity than to have their participation ... interesting ...

[Ansem]

49 minutes ago, A Different Perspective said:

The great irony is that MLS was started more then twenty years ago and didn't Lamar Hunt own and bankroll 7 teams - it achieved the sustainability.  Here we would say that's blasphemy and a major conflict of interest. 

Yeah but they were ran independently. Owning multiple teams isn't the problem, it's the management structure.

 

Manning made it pretty clear that he wouldn't be hands off in regards to CPL. 

[Ansem]

15 minutes ago, A Different Perspective said:

So there is no scenario or condition that you could see MLSE participate in the CPL - even if their participation lead to the CPL's successful launch, sustainability and evolvement.  You would rather endure 20 more years of waste with no National Domestic soccer league and keep our purity than to have their participation ... interesting ...

According to CPL, they aren't needed

[gator]

1 hour ago, A Different Perspective said:

So there is no scenario or condition that you could see MLSE participate in the CPL - even if their participation lead to the CPL's successful launch, sustainability and evolvement.  You would rather endure 20 more years of waste with no National Domestic soccer league and keep our purity than to have their participation ... interesting ...

If we are counting on an organization who clearly see this impending league as a threat to their soccer monopoly in the GTA as the key to a successful launch we are in trouble!

[Complete Homer]

2 hours ago, A Different Perspective said:

Is there anyway MLSE could participate in the CPL?

The great irony is that MLS was started more then twenty years ago and didn't Lamar Hunt own and bankroll 7 teams - it achieved the sustainability.  Here we would say that's blasphemy and a major conflict of interest.  Sometimes the end justify the means - which is the development of Canadian soccer talent and infrastructure.  Certainly MLSE's financial and media muscle can't hurt.

Maybe MLSE could bankroll a CPL team that's focus is purely Canadian Talent that is owned 50/50 with a crowd-funded managment board, loan their US Prospects to other USL teams, and have rules for the Voyageur Cup that people here and elsewhere can live with.

 

 

 

You've gotten a lot of responses already, but I'll throw my thoughts into the ring.

I don't think that MLSE involvement with CPL should be anathema, but the current vision for CPL laid out by TFC leadership is one that appears harmful to CPL and relatively self-serving. Inserting TFC II (actually TFC III according to Manning) into the league gives CPL only one additional stable franchise (which isn't actually very stable if VWC II and FC Montreal folding are any indication), but it harms the marketability of every other team. 

Imagine if the Argos were the B team for a Toronto NFL team. Not only would it make the Argos even less appealing, it would ruin the CFL for many fans in every other market. No one in Calgary or Ottawa is enthused about being treated as second to Toronto, and the league depends much more on the other remaining clubs that it gains from one extra somewhat stable MLSE club

Should that mean that MLSE is forever barred from involvement? Not at all. Executives come and go, and the vision MLSE has for CPL could easily change in the coming years. As MLSE starts to run out of sports to expand into within Toronto, it wouldn't seem unnatural to start expanding into sports they are already involved with in different markets. As long as certain precautions are taken by the league, the relationship could be more similar to a IMFC/Bologna relationship than TFC/TFCII relationship. 

Heck, given things that are being said by Wynalda, there's a (very tiny) chance that TFC finds its position as a guest within a USSF league precarious and MLSE has to reevaluate its entire soccer strategy.

[A Different Perspective]

42 minutes ago, gator said:

If we are counting on an organization who clearly see this impending league as a threat to their soccer monopoly in the GTA as the key to a successful launch we are in trouble!

I am not advocating MLSE involvement nor arguing they are the linchpin to making the CPL happen, I understand the perfect scenario would be another GTA investor(s)/owner(s) with deep pockets to come forward - but they haven't (at least yet) ... and thus the question is are they any conditions or scenarios that you could see MLSE involvement welcomed? 

However, as I read your responses as one of those casual mainstream fans that is patiently waiting year after year for the league to launch, I read that all is good, MLSE would be the fox in the henhouse that would not work to mirror its financial self interest with the growth of the league, and that the CPL is ready to start anyday now, nothing to see here, let's move along ...

[Canknuckles]

Is the league still going for 2018

[CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE]

15 hours ago, xman14 said:

I'd be hesitant to put Osorio into this category. We spent a good portion of his formidable years in Uruguay with Nacional. 

Oh shoot!!!.... Forgot about that, lol!!!

[toontownman]

1 hour ago, Canknuckles said:

Is the league still going for 2018

[CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE]

6 hours ago, Bison44 said:

But MLS and for the most part the CDN MLS teams have only given lip service to helping develop CDN players and refuse to level the playing field with the domestic status issue.  I am a big consumer of MLS and USL, but I dont think they are helping canadian soccer as much as they could and an independent CPL would be a better option.  

@Bison44 You are absolutely correct with the MLS aspect about giving lip service to helping develop CDN players, not 100 % for CDN MLS teams. Dude, just look at some of the players, particularly the home grown that have been developed over the last 3 years. Some good quality talent, indeed. Canadian MLS teams are doing the best they could to foster local talent and bring them up to the main team through their USL affiliates + Whitecaps Residency together with TFC III & TFC II. Given the narrowness of relying in 3 professional teams from an American league to supply the CANMNT system with talent, they are doing a fairly good job imho. The best they can in fact. In terms of playing opportunity, that's a whole other topic, but this conundrum is just restricted to Canadian MLS teams, in fact many MLS teams are enduring a similar crisis, where many MLS insiders have been vocal about the lack of playing opportunities form MLS sides to play their youth and their preference to go scouting and consequently signing young middle-highly skilled players(primarily from South America as per the latest article by Alicia Rodriguez in the MLS site). I know we gotta do more which I'll get back to you shortly. Craig Forest even mentioned after TFC MLS triumph about how TFC is investing lots of $$$ in grassroots training to develop local talent that will form part of TFC down the road. I know the Impact at least are committed to the fullest in player development within their academy and recently  retired Patrice Bernier is very committed to this cause. But giving the restriction about domestic status, is why many wind up in USL, hence why I'm becoming a follower of CANMNTers down in USL as it's their only choice to play as there is only so much room MLS teams can accommodate, particularly concerning international players. In fact, some of the CANMNTers in USL are too good for that league and are worth playing in MLS or a league of similar level. Glad Bustos would be moving on to Ascenso MX, albeit on a loan basis just to give an example.  That's why getting this damn CPL off the ground no later than next year as that now seems to be the most likely starting date is a MUST to bring aboard all these skilled CANMNTers to a league where they can showcase their skills on a day-in, day-out basis and give it some respectability together with any other imports brought into the league. This will foster Canadian player development to a whole other level as opposed to relying in 3 MLS markets  and a player pool from within these cities.

 

[Gopherbashi]

13 hours ago, Canknuckles said:

Is the league still going for 2018

No - 2019 at the earliest.

[Gopherbashi]

I'm wondering where this 10th team is coming from that was mentioned in the Brennan article - I only get 9 cities with any substantial rumours that come to mind.  Even some of these (ie. Calgary) are bordering on mythical status.

Surrey
Calgary
Edmonton
Regina
Winnipeg
Hamilton
York
Ottawa
Halifax

Is there somewhere obvious I'm missing here?  I mean, there could be a team for Toronto proper, but then I really question the team in York.  I always felt the KW rumours were more of an aspiration than an active plan but maybe I misread?

[yellowsweatygorilla]

39 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

I'm wondering where this 10th team is coming from that was mentioned in the Brennan article - I only get 9 cities with any substantial rumours that come to mind.  Even some of these (ie. Calgary) are bordering on mythical status.

Surrey
Calgary
Edmonton
Regina
Winnipeg
Hamilton
York
Ottawa
Halifax

Is there somewhere obvious I'm missing here?  I mean, there could be a team for Toronto proper, but then I really question the team in York.  I always felt the KW rumours were more of an aspiration than an active plan but maybe I misread?

I would say the last one should be KW, considering how there was mention that Barry MacLean had secured investors. The other thing is that instead of Regina, we have Saskatoon. 

[Gopherbashi]

17 minutes ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

I would say the last one should be KW, considering how there was mention that Barry MacLean had secured investors. The other thing is that instead of Regina, we have Saskatoon. 

Ah, makes sense - didn't hear the investor bit.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

York and especially Calgary are still a bit questionable in terms of the information sources, and Edmonton and Ottawa don't appear to be fully on board, but those are probably the ten at the moment, which begs the obvious question of where is Quebec in all of this.

[Ansem]

10 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

I'm wondering where this 10th team is coming from that was mentioned in the Brennan article - I only get 9 cities with any substantial rumours that come to mind.  Even some of these (ie. Calgary) are bordering on mythical status.

Surrey
Calgary
Edmonton
Regina
Winnipeg
Hamilton
York
Ottawa
Halifax

Is there somewhere obvious I'm missing here?  I mean, there could be a team for Toronto proper, but then I really question the team in York.  I always felt the KW rumours were more of an aspiration than an active plan but maybe I misread?

Most likely Quebec City

[Gopherbashi]

7 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

York and especially Calgary are still a bit questionable in terms of the information sources, and Edmonton and Ottawa don't appear to be fully on board, but those are probably the ten at the moment, which begs the obvious question of where is Quebec in all of this.

Yeah, the lack of anything from Quebec is one of the real glaring absences so far.

[Rheo]

12 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

Is there somewhere obvious I'm missing here?  I mean, there could be a team for Toronto proper, but then I really question the team in York.  I always felt the KW rumours were more of an aspiration than an active plan but maybe I misread?

I actually reread the original article on that bid last week. 

https://www.therecord.com/sports-story/7294235-fledgling-canadian-premier-league-could-come-to-waterloo-region/

Been really quiet on that front after that article.  Interesting to see what, if anything comes out of there in the future.