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7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

BTW, Shermanator: do you know how many of the naysayers, doubters or realists (however you view them) were original donors to the Voyageurs Cup? 

Same people you are slighting by saying they will never spend money to make something important for Canadian soccer to work. 

Do you really want to go there?

I kind of feel he's talking about me because he's addressed me and not going to L1O games in the past becaue I have to work and can't really afford to miss shifts.

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I won't take it to Shermanator's level of response, but the bickering and squabbling really is getting out of control here.  We have literally been rehashing the same arguments for over 100 pages now - and that was after the original 400+ page (I think) thread got turfed.  

I will still drop by, but I am done debating the negative minority.  Talk to you all when we get some real news to discuss.  Happy new year :)

For a while I've regarded this as a **** posting/bicker/speculation thread, hence why I have no issue with trash posting this one, and felt the constructive thread was sort of on hold for the real news one.

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12 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Can we keep this thread about CPL and a source of information/ opinions/ healthy debates etc...

Personal rivalries can be done in private

Ok?. This is my opinion, CPL will announce the league will kick off in 2019. Not sure of announcement date, sorry. Let’s hope that announcement comes sooner than later. I hope everybody that takes the time to post on here will consider going to games.  I personally will buy 4 season seats to a team even though I live too far to attend games as I live in the boonies. My plan is to donate said tickets to charity/families to attend.  Give the CPL, the game in Canada and locally, a boost of confidence. I hope I can encourage a few others for positive support of their closest team. A dream has to start somewhere. 

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4 minutes ago, soccerlife said:

Ok?. This is my opinion, CPL will announce the league will kick off in 2019. Not sure of announcement date, sorry. Let’s hope that announcement comes sooner than later. I hope everybody that takes the time to post on here will consider going to games.  I personally will buy 4 season seats to a team even though I live too far to attend games as I live in the boonies. My plan is to donate said tickets to charity/families to attend.  Give the CPL, the game in Canada and locally, a boost of confidence. I hope I can encourage a few others for positive support of their closest team. A dream has to start somewhere. 

I'll have my season tickets to the York Region team (New TTC Subway stations helps) until CPL comes to Toronto

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2 hours ago, Macksam said:

No, I doubt he does. However, Jimmy Brennen’s news of resigning to pursue an opportunity with a (most likely York based) CPL club is pretty telling that said club has an owner who has incorporated the business and hired staff, and is in the process of hiring more staff.....unless Jimmy B has resigned from the Aurora team even before jumping on board this CPL club which I highly doubt.

I pretty sure Mr. Brennan knew his days at Aurora were coming to an end and a lot of people at Aurora started to wonder what exactly they were paying him over 100000 for,  to do what, while the L1O team was being run on a shoestring budget , hopefully people at Aurora have realized that that even half of his salary could go into actually something constructive and spending the actual money on actual soccer like the L10 team and developing players. However, Brennan going to work for a future York Region based team I agree is a good sign that there is going to be a York Region based team in the CPL and a good sign that the CPL is most likely happening, one thing I have to hand it to Brennan his luck still has not run out and has found another pay day as soon as the last one at Aurora ran out. 

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29 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I'll have my season tickets to the York Region team (New TTC Subway stations helps) until CPL comes to Toronto

If the owners were smart they would put a pop up stadium close to the last stop in Vaughan,  Vaughan Metropolitan Centre subway station,   in the Jane and Hwy. 7 area, forget about the OSA Center at Martin Grove and Hwy 7 too far from the subway line and no kind of pro soccer has ever worked there, try something new.

Edited by 1996

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20 minutes ago, 1996 said:

If the owners were smart they would put a pop up stadium close to the last stop in Vaughan,  Vaughan Metropolitan Centre subway station,   in the Jane and Hwy. 7 area, forget about the OSA Center at Martin Grove and Hwy 7 too far from the subway line and no kind of pro soccer has ever worked there, try something new.

That would be great, however there are tons of projects there due to the subway and Vaughan wanting to build their downtown around it.

Highway 407 however has tons of land on top of the subway station. Can't go wrong by having a stadium next to it...and tons of parking

Highway 407

23323-81575.jpeg

Edited by Ansem

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Yup that 

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

That would be great, however there are tons of projects there due to the subway and Vaughan wanting to build their downtown around it.

Highway 407 however has tons of land on top of the subway station. Can't go wrong by having a stadium next to it...and tons of parking

Highway 407

23323-81575.jpeg

Yup that is actually a good spot lots of land around that station, like I said build near that subway line and you will give the team a chance to succeed.

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9 hours ago, Gordon said:

You are not seriously suggesting that giving $10-20 dollars to a crowd sourced more than a decade ago trophy gives anyone the higher ground are you? 

Edit: if you scroll down the list of contributors, you’ll find one name conspicuously absent (Not OPs, but that of a heavy contributor of negative posts to this thread. And he was around then).

Not sure if you’re referring to me, but my name was absent, but that was because Winnipeg Fury forgot to add it, he even confirmed it in a thread.  For the record, I donated $200 bucks to fhe Cup at that time, not $10 or $20 like your slighting me and others.  I also contributed to the Cascadia Cup a couple of hundred back then too with my fellow Southsiders, ECS and Timbers Army supporters.  For the record, I’m for a CPL league but the way its going, seems like its not going anywhere.  I don’t know how some of you can be positive, but I’ve waited almost 30 years for a new CPL and heard the same record of “please wait, exciting things to come”. For thr record this CPL has gotten abit further than the last CUSL try but it’s hitting snags.  Like BBTB, I think if this fails, go to plan B immediately, if there is one.  The longer there’s not any sort of league here, the worse the grassroots and the professional game here.

Edit:  also does it really matter how much one donates?? It was a collective effort then and I’m sure every dollar helped keep the cup maintained, polished, etc.  I don’t even know if Winnipeg Fury, Ed Swain and others are still with us, as they haven’t posted in eons and they were much older than us, but if they aren’t, thank you for everything and making this board fun and still is, even with alot of criticism.

Edited by nolbertos

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On 2018-01-03 at 4:25 PM, Kent said:

I told myself I wasn't going to help you keep this conversation going in circles

I should have listened to myself. Lesson learned... again. I need to remember that some people will argue against facts like NASL (original) failed/folded, or that Didier Drogba played in the USL.

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No, I was not referring to you nolbertos. You are right the amount doesn’t matter. I picked the amount because that was about what most contributors at the time were putting forward. I too put forward $200. In the end, it doesn’t matter today. It doesn’t give me any special right to be an ******* - which I am sure I sometimes am - rank over nor immunity from being called out anyone who didn’t happen to be involved on the board in 2002. Maybe that is not what Unnamed Trialist meant, but that is how I read it. 

 

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5 hours ago, Ansem said:

That would be great, however there are tons of projects there due to the subway and Vaughan wanting to build their downtown around it.

Highway 407 however has tons of land on top of the subway station. Can't go wrong by having a stadium next to it...and tons of parking

Highway 407

23323-81575.jpeg

I think an even more ideal site would just be to renovate York Lions Stadium (currently seats 3000, but can be expanded to 12,000). There's adequate existing parking and Pioneer's Village TTC station is a 5 minute walk. 

Even Alumni Field (the smaller York stadium) is pretty nice - was there for the Ontario University soccer finals - 1200px-York_Stadium.jpg

 

... I just realized this has been brought up a dozen times and the stadium thread is bleeding into this. Ahhh.. give us some news already.

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7 hours ago, Kent said:

I should have listened to myself. Lesson learned... again. I need to remember that some people will argue against facts like NASL (original) failed/folded, or that Didier Drogba played in the USL.

What are you even talking about at this point? I pointed out that 78,000 showing up at the Meadowlands to see Pele, Chinaglia and Beckenbauer showed that soccer had considerable potential as a spectator sport in large cities in North America and that what sank the NASL despite that was some of the teams moving their operations indoors to the MISL to Americanize the sport and player salaries spiraling out of control. Nothing in that implies that it didn't fold or fail. There were obvious reasons to try again with the original NASL because the league had some genuine boom years, in contrast with the CSL which basically just outright failed and followed the trajectory of a damp squib.

Would you care to explain what you see in the experience of the original CSL that could leave anyone with the impression that another similar league would work the second time around when Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver have MLS teams in place that are not going to go anywhere? The only rational argument I can see for trying again is the one that revolves around that all being 25 to 30 years ago now and circumstances having changed, which is true to an extent but I'm still somewhat skeptical about until there is some evidence that the youth soccer registration boom translates into a similar boom in pro soccer ticket sales (at full price, devaluing the product with heavily discounted group sales doesn't pay the bills) in smaller Canadian cities where the post-WWII immigration demographic that is the backbone of soccer interest in Canada is a lot smaller in percentage terms than it is in the three MLS markets.

Beyond that the whole point I made about reinventing the wheel is that there is no need to go through the risk of a startup venture in the first place that needs eight economically successful franchises at a minimum to be stable moving forward to get more pro soccer teams in Canada when there are USSF leagues readily available for use instead. With a thirty franchise USL moving into D2 level the old arguments about there not being enough space for non-American teams due to the USSF's 75% sanctioning standard fall away. If CanPL fails to get off the ground this year, there is a plan B very much in place, so there is no need for any hysteria and bitter personal attacks over this issue. One way or another, there will be more pro teams to cheer for in a few years time.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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20 hours ago, Gordon said:

You are not seriously suggesting that giving $10-20 dollars to a crowd sourced more than a decade ago trophy gives anyone the higher ground are you? 

Edit: if you scroll down the list of contributors, you’ll find one name conspicuously absent (Not OPs, but that of a heavy contributor of negative posts to this thread. And he was around then).

You have no idea what you are talking about, sad to say. There is no evidence to support the argument that those being gung-ho (and I would say naive) about a currently non-existent league are any more authentic or dedicated in their support of the game than those who are skeptics. Or that somehow they are bigger spenders on local football. 

Shermanator is arguing that anyone who disagrees with his unique and superior line of support for the CPL is not really an authentic supporter, and won't ever spend their money watching a game anyways. He does this to discredit those who disagree with him. It is his line of thinking (and apparently yours), not mine.

Those who donated for the Voyageurs Cup, like the shield for women's soccer too, put their money where their mouth is. The legacy is undeniable. Supporters on this board led the way, and the CSA and the teams followed. It is now internationally recognized for what it is. 

BTW, Gordon, most of us did not donate the low quantities you are saying, your argument is way cheaper than we were, good show.

 

 

 

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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13 hours ago, nolbertos said:

Not sure if you’re referring to me, but my name was absent, but that was because Winnipeg Fury forgot to add it, ...

I sent $50 in cash to the address in question in Winnipeg and it was never acknowledged either although it was probably my own fault for sending it in cash in a way that would have been obvious to anyone handling the letter, so although I was a bit irked at the time about being omitted I don't hold any grudges over it now. Also donated electronically through paypal or interac this time as I had learned my lesson on sending cash through the post by that point, to the purchase of RPB's big drum that may or may not be the one that has been used in TFC's recent Iceland style celebrations. Don't think any of that makes any huge difference in the big scheme of things, but Unnamed Trialist was well within his rights to point out what he did in response to Shermanator's post.

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2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

I sent $50 in cash to the address in question in Winnipeg and it was never acknowledged either although it was probably my own fault for sending it in cash in a way that would have been obvious to anyone handling the letter, so although I was a bit irked at the time about being omitted I don't hold any grudges over it now. Also donated electronically through paypal or interac this time as I had learned my lesson on sending cash through the post by that point, to the purchase of RPB's big drum that may or may not be the one that has been used in TFC's recent Iceland style celebrations. Don't think any of that makes any huge difference in the big scheme of things, but Unnamed Trialist was well within his rights to point out what he did in response to Shermanator's post.

I don't even remember what I donated, maybe  50 but not sure. It does not matter, the financial argument as a sign of superior support is lame and goes nowhere.

There are people who cannot donate to causes or go to games as they don't have income. Others have other priorities and you can't judge them. There are young teens who cannot spend money that way on this board who are more respectful about others' opinions than some of the people who should know better.  

Now if anyone wants to argue who supports more football, in the last calendar year I have probably paid to watch football in 15-20 different club venues all the way from Barça to Spanish 5th tier or TSS at Swangard. So it is not like I am a loser fan who is just shooting from the hip at CPL who won't put his money where his mouth is. The problem is asking me to be a disciple when Epiphany hasn't happened yet, which is asking a lot, it is asking for blind faith, asking more from Canadian soccer fans than Jesus expected of his disciples (Epiphany is tomorrow BTW).

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1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I don't even remember what I donated, maybe  50 but not sure. It does not matter, the financial argument as a sign of superior support is lame and goes nowhere....

If I donated a similar percentage of my personal net worth to something now it would be $1000, for what it's worth, which shows how the significance of the sacrifice involved with a particular amount varies wildly with personal circumstances.

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I contributed nothing! I checked my profile and it says I signed up in 2008, but I didn't contribute much in the form of posts back then either. I only recently started to speak up, like within the last year. But...I've said too much since I've never contributed money, just go ahead and delete this post moderator :)

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5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You have no idea what you are talking about, sad to say. There is no evidence to support the argument that those being gung-ho (and I would say naive) about a currently non-existent league are any more authentic or dedicated in their support of the game than those who are skeptics. Or that somehow they are bigger spenders on local football. 

Shermanator is arguing that anyone who disagrees with his unique and superior line of support for the CPL is not really an authentic supporter, and won't ever spend their money watching a game anyways. He does this to discredit those who disagree with him. It is his line of thinking (and apparently yours), not mine.

Those who donated for the Voyageurs Cup, like the shield for women's soccer too, put their money where their mouth is. The legacy is undeniable. Supporters on this board led the way, and the CSA and the teams followed. It is now internationally recognized for what it is. 

BTW, Gordon, most of us did not donate the low quantities you are saying, your argument is way cheaper than we were, good show.

 

 

 

It is absurd to argue that a donation made 15 years ago is evidence of anything today. My argument is that simple, and contained to that point only. I find it amusing that my challenging an argument I think ill conceived is now sufficient evidence for you to suggest as to how I “apparently” think on tangentially related subject. Actually though, I have weighed in above stating that I have no problem in understanding why some people are sceptical. More than once in this thread. As recently as yesterday. For the record.

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1 hour ago, Rheo said:

I just don't get where some of the doubters get offended for being "attacked" for their constant negativity and then turn around make fun of those who are positive generally.  Personally I just find the whole thing stupid on both sides.  

Are we not all supposed to be Voyageurs? Seems a bit bizarre that people leaning on the basis of pragmatism or idealism towards two differing strategies for having more pro level opportunities for Canadian players gets described as "two sides" and people lose sight of the fact that everybody here has a shared interest in the CMNT and that some get so zealous about it that they can't even tolerate a differing perspective on the topic. Just a game of soccer in the final analysis which is a form of popular entertainment rather than something that genuinely affects people's lives like politics so maybe try to chill out a little bit?  

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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This is a fascinating gatekeeping pissing contest y'all have got going on, but what do people think of this canplhub thing that's working its way around Twitter?  I assume it's some kind of directory to help people find a CPL SG?

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I'm very chill.  I haven't accused people of being on drugs or being mentally ill.  And we are all Voyageurs.  We have differences of opinions.  Just pointing out something I find funny.

Edited by Rheo

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