RUMOR: Any truth to a CPL team at Swangard?

[PJSweet]

Can someone here please look into this rumor that Swangard PDL team TSS Rovers may be looking into the potentials of setting up a CPL team to play at Swangard. The rumor was posted today on Social Media. I will love to see this materialize, but let's cautiously looking into this before we start celebrating with joy. It's only a rumor right now.

[rob.notenboom]

*ahem*

It's 'rummor'. 

[ironcub14]

It makes really little sense to me that PDL/L1O academies like TSS or Sigma would even be linked to CPL at this point, this shit gonna be way bigger than PDL/L1O teams can afford. The only maybe exception is KW, I think.

Somebody give me an outrageous CPL rumour to put on twitter so we can see how long it takes to get picked up on Reddit/V's.

[rob.notenboom]

11 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

It makes really little sense to me that PDL/L1O academies like TSS or Sigma would even be linked to CPL at this point, this shit gonna be way bigger than PDL/L1O teams can afford. The only maybe exception is KW, I think.

Somebody give me an outrageous CPL rumour to put on twitter so we can see how long it takes to get picked up on Reddit/V's.

All it takes is one investor who is wealthy enough and supportive enough for a PDL team to go from looking like they would have no chance of entering the league to being a solid bid with a technical staff and academy already in place. I wouldn't count them out. 

[PJSweet]

17 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

It makes really little sense to me that PDL/L1O academies like TSS or Sigma would even be linked to CPL at this point, this shit gonna be way bigger than PDL/L1O teams can afford. The only maybe exception is KW, I think.

Somebody give me an outrageous CPL rumour to put on twitter so we can see how long it takes to get picked up on Reddit/V's.

Thanx for clearing the air on this one...Now it begs the following question: Why would someone post such a rumor on Twitter without having any specific facts backing it up unless he has inside info that we're not aware of? Case in point, he may know that an investor with deep pockets is willing to convert a PDL team into a professional unit for the CPL.

[Rheo]

10 minutes ago, PJSweet said:

Thanx for clearing the air on this one...Now it begs the following question: Why would someone post such a rumor on Twitter without having any specific facts backing it up unless he has inside info that we're not aware of? Case in point, he may know that an investor with deep pockets is willing to convert a PDL team into a professional unit for the CPL.

Could be someone with knowledge, could be someone with too much time on their hands wanting to stir the pot lol.  It is the internet after all.  Hard to know without knowing the source.

[matty]

The team he talked with those involved about he cpl. I can't remember who reported it but they did talk

[ironcub14]

Yep, I hear you guys that a PDL side or a L1O side could be converted to a professional side. Heck the team on my avatar is the best example of that case.

I'll be more specific, the keyword in my post was "academies". For me, it makes little sense that a professional academy like TSS or Sigma would be converted into a professional side at the level of CPL. I have it in my mind that these academies are youth-oriented, and focused on developing talent, and that's completely beneficial at the third division level, but it doesn't seem natural for a private academy side to be linked to a level at first division.

Maybe it's a branding thing for me, it seems weird to talk about a TSS or a Sigma in CPL, if they were called Burnaby or Richmond or Brampton or Mississauga, it might make a better fit. Maybe it's just the private academies vs community clubs thing for me. It just seems off that we're linking private academies to CPL at this point in a number of different ways. I'm hoping CPL is something on a bigger scale than that, but that there will be a pathway and a connection to the 3rd and 4th division leagues for sure.

[Complete Homer]

Holy cow, can we seriously not read the context of tweets anymore? They were kidding around

This is why half the people encountering CPL talk just think it's a bunch of dreamers passing off smoke and mirror as fact. Because often we are

Edit: OK that was harsh, but seriously, this is how unsubstantiated rumours get started

[Complete Homer]

13 minutes ago, matty said:

The team he talked with those involved about he cpl. I can't remember who reported it but they did talk

They mentioned on From the Black Hole that CPL folks had say down with them, TSS said there was no way they had the funds to be part of the project.  

[Rintaran]

11 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

They mentioned on From the Black Hole that CPL folks had say down with them, TSS said there was no way they had the funds to be part of the project.  

As far as I can tell, this would be the source of the Swangard/TSS discussion that to which someone only 1/2 listened. As mentioned previously on Northern Starting XI, TSS is in a contract with PDL for 3-years and have no plans in regards to other leagues at this time. Although it would be cool to have Swangard host a Canadian Premier League team, from what I can tell there is no solid (or even semi-solid) rumour that it is a possibility at this time.
 

[shermanator]

1 hour ago, ironcub14 said:

It makes really little sense to me that PDL/L1O academies like TSS or Sigma would even be linked to CPL at this point, this shit gonna be way bigger than PDL/L1O teams can afford. The only maybe exception is KW, I think.

Somebody give me an outrageous CPL rumour to put on twitter so we can see how long it takes to get picked up on Reddit/V's.

Building on this, I think we can add Calgary Foothills to the mix of clubs that likely will be nowhere near the CPL. Unless there is a secret multi-millionaire / billionaire investor involved behind the scenes, they do not have the sort of capital required to launch a CPL club.

And for the record, I am not saying with 100% certainty that Calgary Foothills won't be involved. I'm saying it's highly unlikely. The reality is that nobody here actually knows the inner workings of CPL discussions. Any information that has not been made public is at best, second hand.

[matty]

37 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

They mentioned on From the Black Hole that CPL folks had say down with them, TSS said there was no way they had the funds to be part of the project.  

I didn't say  they were joining or anything.

[Complete Homer]

54 minutes ago, matty said:

I didn't say  they were joining or anything.

Nope wasn't saying you were saying that, just filling in who reported since you said you couldn't remember

[BrennanFan]

If we are going to be posting about Twitter rummorz, could we at least provide a link for the Tweet?  

 

[yellowsweatygorilla]

3 hours ago, ironcub14 said:

Yep, I hear you guys that a PDL side or a L1O side could be converted to a professional side. Heck the team on my avatar is the best example of that case.

I'll be more specific, the keyword in my post was "academies". For me, it makes little sense that a professional academy like TSS or Sigma would be converted into a professional side at the level of CPL. I have it in my mind that these academies are youth-oriented, and focused on developing talent, and that's completely beneficial at the third division level, but it doesn't seem natural for a private academy side to be linked to a level at first division.

Maybe it's a branding thing for me, it seems weird to talk about a TSS or a Sigma in CPL, if they were called Burnaby or Richmond or Brampton or Mississauga, it might make a better fit. Maybe it's just the private academies vs community clubs thing for me. It just seems off that we're linking private academies to CPL at this point in a number of different ways. I'm hoping CPL is something on a bigger scale than that, but that there will be a pathway and a connection to the 3rd and 4th division leagues for sure.

That said, there has long been talks of Sigma becoming Hamilton's academy. Some type of affiliation model makes sense to me as a way to jump start CPL youth development, with those academy teams staying in L1O

[Kent]

4 hours ago, ironcub14 said:

It makes really little sense to me that PDL/L1O academies like TSS or Sigma would even be linked to CPL at this point, this shit gonna be way bigger than PDL/L1O teams can afford. The only maybe exception is KW, I think.

What is it about KW that makes you think it's different from Sigma or TSS? I'm thinking the only reason why you say that is because news has broken about their interest in the CPL. It wasn't that long ago that the thread where people voted on the most likely 8 starting cities ended up with KW being the only city in the poll that didn't get a single vote. So nobody thought it would happen, then news came out, and now it seems like a possibility. I'm not saying there is any substance to this rumour that I haven't even seen, but as Rob pointed out already, all it takes is an investor that wants to buddy up with a local team to bid on a CPL team.

[ironcub14]

11 minutes ago, Kent said:

What is it about KW that makes you think it's different from Sigma or TSS? I'm thinking the only reason why you say that is because news has broken about their interest in the CPL. It wasn't that long ago that the thread where people voted on the most likely 8 starting cities ended up with KW being the only city in the poll that didn't get a single vote. So nobody thought it would happen, then news came out, and now it seems like a possibility. I'm not saying there is any substance to this rumour that I haven't even seen, but as Rob pointed out already, all it takes is an investor that wants to buddy up with a local team to bid on a CPL team.

Hey, I laid out my reasons in my 2nd post in this thread above. I see TSS and Sigma first and foremost as private academies geared towards youth development that have recently put a team in PDL/L1O the last couple of years, vs KW which was formed specifically I see in 2010 for PDL. And yep, exactly like how Ottawa went from PDL to NASL/USL.

For me, I see it as a difference in starting points. TSS and Sigma, from what I know, started off as youth academies and have ascended enough to put a team in PDL/L1O. KW United and Ottawa started off in PDL and may or have strived for more. I laid out more specifically above thread why I'm not so sure about private academies joining the pro ranks. Don't feel like writing an essay on the topic.

[rob.notenboom]

7 hours ago, PJSweet said:

Why would someone post such a rumor on Twitter without having any specific facts backing it up unless he has inside info that we're not aware of?

Because people are dumb. 

Because people jump to conclusions. 

Because people often don't double check sources before sharing stuff on social media. 

Because when people hear a rumour without a lot of details they often fill in those details from ideas in their subconscious and then believe they actually heard that when they didn't. 

Because they want to be seen by others to be 'in the know'.

Because they have an agenda and want to promote that agenda. 

 

Believe twitter rumours at your peril. Luckily we are at a stage where there is finally official information coming out. Personally I'm willing to be patient, pay attention to official sources, and watch what two or three other sources (who have said less but been correct more) are saying. Much else is speculation and chatter dressed up as inside info. 

[marauder01]

8 hours ago, PJSweet said:

Why would someone post such a rumor on Twitter without having any specific facts backing it up unless he has inside info that we're not aware of?

This is the greatest post I've ever seen.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

10 hours ago, rob.notenboom said:

All it takes is one investor who is wealthy enough and supportive enough for a PDL team to go from looking like they would have no chance of entering the league to being a solid bid with a technical staff and academy already in place. I wouldn't count them out. 

what rob said.

much easier to take something and make it CPL, than just plop something down and hope that it works.

my bet would be it's someone trying to start the rumour in the hopes that our enthusiasm makes it a reality.

lol thats what I would do.

maybe it was me  

[nolbertos]

Well according to GOF a member of the Southsiders, asked TCC along time ago if rhey were interested in someday joining the CPL.  TCC were keen, but they don't have any financial partners with deep enough pockets.  He also stated that some investors in the Valley (Surrey, Langley, Abbotsford) have inquired about the CPL, but none have shown they have financial pockets.  One thing is too inquire and another is too have a rich investor willing to take on the risks involved.  For the record, if say TCC jumped to the CanPL, attendance is a concern.  So far they've attracted 600-800 people at Swangard.  I'm sure they're not breaking even or close to it, but they're happy in the PDL level for now.

[Alex D]

13 hours ago, Kent said:

What is it about KW that makes you think it's different from Sigma or TSS? I'm thinking the only reason why you say that is because news has broken about their interest in the CPL. It wasn't that long ago that the thread where people voted on the most likely 8 starting cities ended up with KW being the only city in the poll that didn't get a single vote. So nobody thought it would happen, then news came out, and now it seems like a possibility. I'm not saying there is any substance to this rumour that I haven't even seen, but as Rob pointed out already, all it takes is an investor that wants to buddy up with a local team to bid on a CPL team.

Because KW's owner has $$$$

[dyslexic nam]

2 hours ago, Alex D said:

Because KW's owner has $$$$

But isn't that exactly the point?  All it takes is someone with deep pockets to come along who wants a team in CPL and see those teams as the right vehicle to do it.  Maybe the idea of converting an existing team and support structure into a CPL competitor is a lot more appealing than building something from scratch. Aside from ironcub's point that Sigma and TSS are academies and focused on a different process (ie. development) I see no reason why money couldn't make things happen for those teams in the same way that it will be required to make things happen in other markets, with other teams, if CPL is to become reality.

This thread actually raises an interesting possibility.  Based on the info and conjecture so far (and subject to a whole host of caveats about reliability), it seems like CPL will use a model that involves adult players - ideally pros who are better than USL ior NASL level, but not as good as the top non-DP pros in MLS - and some developmental prospects.  In that context, it is interesting to think about a team/club that would try to establish its identity predominantly around signing and developing key young Canadian prospects - thus a competitive CPL team, but which still had a strong (and in fact dominant) developmental ethos.  It would have the lowest average age in the league and feature kids that were good enough to play amongst the men of CPL.  The investment (aside from stadium and other bricks and mortar operational costs) wouldn't be in DP's or high level journeymen, but on top developmental staff and facilities, and on acquiring the rights to top young Canadian prospects.  The attraction for the players would be precisely in the club's core philosophy and the opportunities that would entail.  Thus the next Davies (at 15) might not see VWFC2 as the ideal path (onto an MLS side and then who knows where).  He might see SigmaPro (or whatever) as a chance to get a CPL-level paycheck and get a ton of competitive pro minutes in a reasonably strong league and competitive environment where they would face opposition potentially of a higher calibre than many USL teams (thus what they would face in MLS reserves).  This kind of club would have to grab a lot of the top talent to be successful - otherwise they would likely get dominated by the opposition - but there are clubs that have displayed this kind of philosophy to a lesser extent.  And as long as you stick to your philosophy and give the kids a chance in that environment, the next round of prospects would know that they will get playing time in a CPL environment.

As much as I despise Arsenal, there have been times where they, and specifically Wenger, were known for giving kids a chance at a top level.  As a result, they secured some young players that were deemed to be really strong prospects (Fabregas, Walcott, the Ox, etc) who had other options but chose "the Arse" in part because they saw it as a way to accelerate their development, exposure and opportunity.  More recently, Tottenham (under Poch) has shown a similar willingness to acquire and play younger guys, and while it is still a work in progress, it is looking like a pretty successful formula so far.

I fully recognize that the context is very different.  Arsenal has always had a mix of youth and seasoned veterans, and Spurs aren't exactly playing a bunch of 16 yr olds.  One could also argue that the players acquired were already close to the finished product, so the idea of true development may miss the mark - more like they polished them up into the finished product.  The model is also predicated on really effective scouting and successfully finding those rough gems that can be moulded into successful pros.  And finally, the results are mixed in terms of how successful the model may be in terms of getting results.  Arsenal's "Invincibles" (puke) were built on a solid core of veterans, and they haven't hit those heights since.   

But these examples do show that teams can, to some extent, be built around an aggressive recruitment and development model that can yield both benefits and results.  Taking that to its logical conclusion, the idea of a CPL side focused on development (and attracting the top prospects precisely because of that reputation) is intriguing.

 

[Alex D]

53 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

But isn't that exactly the point?  All it takes is someone with deep pockets to come along who wants a team in CPL and see those teams as the right vehicle to do it.  Maybe the idea of converting an existing team and support structure into a CPL competitor is a lot more appealing than building something from scratch.

 

 

I don't disagree but KW already has the money, they still are negotiating with further investors for CPL but the majority of it is already there.