yellowsweatygorilla Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I don’t think I’ve seen it discussed here, but what do people think of Corrazin’s idea of using the CHL regional league model to save travel costs. Thus, we could have something like this: Western Soccer League: Victoria Highlanders Kelowna Vancouver Edmonton Calgary Foothills Saskatoon Regina Winnipeg Ontario Soccer League: Hamilton K-W United FC London GTA Kingston Windsor Durham St. Catherine/Niagara Falls Eastern Soccer League: Ottawa Gatineau Montreal Quebec Trois Rivières Moncton Halifax St. John’s, NFL We could even have ‘Canadian-style’ pro-rel with a round robin tournament between the top 2 sides of each conference for the playoffs (… though I suppose everyone gets ‘relegated’ every season). This will allow for inter-conference play. While I’d be all for this, which allows teams in smaller cities, but there’d be concerns about whether a regional system would capture the imagination of casual fans or media attention. Or, there is the danger of only having the playoffs draw interest. Besides, it seems like the caliber of owners we have right now means the finances allow for a cross-country league. That said, this may be an option to ensure sustainability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondium Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I think there is a significant benefit to having one unified league, but just with the standard East/West conferencing in order to save on travel. Calling them different leagues, as a casual fan, would definitely make me feel a bit less interested. At that point it makes me feel like "Well how is this any different than what we have currently?" would become a big question popping up. The classic East-West setup I think works well enough to combine mitigated travel costs with maintaining the "big-league" coast-to-coast feel. I think that type of setup would work very well for an eventual 'Tier 2' of the pyramid if Canada ever got that far, but I think it would really be underwhelming for a top league in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Diamondium said: I think there is a significant benefit to having one unified league, but just with the standard East/West conferencing in order to save on travel. Calling them different leagues, as a casual fan, would definitely make me feel a bit less interested. At that point it makes me feel like "Well how is this any different than what we have currently?" would become a big question popping up. The classic East-West setup I think works well enough to combine mitigated travel costs with maintaining the "big-league" coast-to-coast feel. I think that type of setup would work very well for an eventual 'Tier 2' of the pyramid if Canada ever got that far, but I think it would really be underwhelming for a top league in my opinion. indeed. the top tier has to be small - 12 teams max. 10 likely will be best. The 2nd tier though can grow and thrive to a large size in a regional format for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowsweatygorilla Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 12 minutes ago, Diamondium said: I think there is a significant benefit to having one unified league, but just with the standard East/West conferencing in order to save on travel. Calling them different leagues, as a casual fan, would definitely make me feel a bit less interested. At that point it makes me feel like "Well how is this any different than what we have currently?" would become a big question popping up. The classic East-West setup I think works well enough to combine mitigated travel costs with maintaining the "big-league" coast-to-coast feel. I think that type of setup would work very well for an eventual 'Tier 2' of the pyramid if Canada ever got that far, but I think it would really be underwhelming for a top league in my opinion. Absolutely, just stuck with the term league because of CHL. But I agree, East-West or East-Central-Western conferences would work better. I mean, MLS, and every single league in Canada-USA (maybe except CFL) has scheduling based on geography, this would just be a more aggressive take on it. But what you really hit on is the importance of how this setup might be portrayed or marketed. There are also different emphases that can be played up - such as how this allows for much more away fans to attend - to create more of a 'European atmosphere'. Will fans get bored if they never get to play other conference teams during regular team play is another question. Ultimately though, I am hoping this is a solution to a problem we don't have and that the proposed owners will be able to get around the concerns around travel costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 We really should focus on what we can do to support the one league we know is coming first and foremost before fantasizing about grand futures. No offense meant, just my opinion that's there a lot of energy wasted on stuff like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondium Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 minute ago, yellowsweatygorilla said: Absolutely, just stuck with the term league because of CHL. But I agree, East-West or East-Central-Western conferences would work better. I mean, MLS, and every single league in Canada-USA (maybe except CFL) has scheduling based on geography, this would just be a more aggressive take on it. But what you really hit on is the importance of how this setup might be portrayed or marketed. There are also different emphases that can be played up - such as how this allows for much more away fans to attend - to create more of a 'European atmosphere'. Will fans get bored if they never get to play other conference teams during regular team play is another question. Ultimately though, I am hoping this is a solution to a problem we don't have and that the proposed owners will be able to get around the concerns around travel costs. I will agree though that it is a great setup for any league that absoluetly needs to minimize travel to survive. That is why I would agree with it being a great Tier 2 setup, as well as why it works so well for CHL. The two Eastern conferences in particular have little to no travel in this setup, which is great if you are a league that legitimately does have troubles with the travel cost of going across Canada. West still has some, of course, but that's just bound to happen when every city in the prairies is 200km+ away from the nearest other notable city. If one wanted to theoretically apply your setup to a top-tier league, I would suggest branding it as one league with three conferences, and allowing 1 game (home/away rotated between seasons, similar to what NHL did before realignment) against each out-of-conference team per regular season, with the rest being intra-conference. It is fortunate for the league, however, that travel costs do not appear to be a massive issue. Just now, Rheo said: We really should focus on what we can do to support the one league we know is coming first and foremost before fantasizing about grand futures. No offense meant, just my opinion that's there a lot of energy wasted on stuff like this. I mean, we can do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, Diamondium said: I mean, we can do both. Don't mind me and as I said no offense mean. Just finding it harder to wade through the middle of the overly optimistic and the overly pessimistic. I'm just in a mood I guess lol. I just need to get through work and get to the VCup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 We have this... http://www.league1ontario.com/ http://www.plsq.ca/ Support your local tier 3 team if you have one. Encourage your local PDL team to join/help found a local tier 3 league if there isn't one yet. As for CPL, I think it should be national, not regional. A weighted schedule to help with travel is fine by me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuillermoDelQuarto Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Not the worst idea but my hope is that we see something along the lines of conferences(be it east west or east west central) and have most games within conference but one game at each opponent. That way you can do it all in one swoop in a big cross conference road trip. A little shitty for the players but it would keep travel costs down while remaining an authentic coast to coast league. And then playoffs have a couple home and homes and the final can be a one off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuillermoDelQuarto Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Perhaps you play conference opponents 2 sets of home and homes and cross conference once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironcub14 Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Definitely a long-term model for a CPL2 two to three decades down the road, for sure, OP. Something to strive towards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 I could see CPL having 2 conferences down the road. A CHL model would work better in a CPL 2 Division 3 would be provincial leagues (If they ever gets their acts together) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowsweatygorilla Posted May 26, 2017 Author Share Posted May 26, 2017 Speaking of regional leagues, has there been any discussions about a league in the Prairies and Atlantic Canada? Despite a stuttering start, a BC league is attempting to start up, in addition to the established L1O and PLSQ. Maybe for that level, all we can hope for are provincial leagues given the distances in the West. I wonder if it'd be too costly to have Atlantic teams in PLSQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zem Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 52 minutes ago, yellowsweatygorilla said: Speaking of regional leagues, has there been any discussions about a league in the Prairies and Atlantic Canada? Despite a stuttering start, a BC league is attempting to start up, in addition to the established L1O and PLSQ. Maybe for that level, all we can hope for are provincial leagues given the distances in the West. I wonder if it'd be too costly to have Atlantic teams in PLSQ. The real issue with getting Atlantic and Western D3 leagues started is that multiple provincial associations need to work together to make them happen, which is challenging given the many different interests with regards to regulations and licencing. As far as discussions on an Atlantic league I certainly haven't heard anything, although I'm no insider. An Atlantic league would be especially challenging because of the cost of travel between Newfoundland and the Maritimes in combination with the relative poverty of many clubs compared to somewhere like Ontario. And yes, Atlantic Canadian clubs playing in PLSQ would definitely be overly expensive for both sides. An Atlantic league would be very possible, but it might have to wait a while and would need to start with at least a couple clubs in Newfoundland to avoid having the island be locked out of the league by travel costs. And then there's the issue of clubs jumping to the Atlantic Superleague hurting the already-small provincial leagues in Atlantic Canada, not to mention that the odds of all four associations seeing eye to eye on such a league are slim. Attendance-wise, however, I think an Atlantic league has the potential to be the most successful D3 league in the country by a fair margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 I believe @rob.notenboom has heard a bit of talk about a league in Saskatchewan, or maybe it was including one or two of its neighbouring provinces, but it sounded like very early talk, probably just at the conceptual level, and I haven't heard him mention it in a while. Thats a terrible run on sentence. My apologies for being too lazy to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 9 minutes ago, Kent said: I believe @rob.notenboom has heard a bit of talk about a league in Saskatchewan, or maybe it was including one or two of its neighbouring provinces, but it sounded like very early talk, probably just at the conceptual level, and I haven't heard him mention it in a while. Thats a terrible run on sentence. My apologies for being too lazy to change it. There was something about a high-performance league, but it seemed to be youth-oriented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 On 5/23/2017 at 9:36 AM, yellowsweatygorilla said: I don’t think I’ve seen it discussed here, but what do people think of Corrazin’s idea of using the CHL regional league model to save travel costs. Thus, we could have something like this: This is supposed to be the D3 model. There's no sense doing the same thing for a D1 model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuillermoDelQuarto Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 1 hour ago, yellowsweatygorilla said: Speaking of regional leagues, has there been any discussions about a league in the Prairies and Atlantic Canada? Despite a stuttering start, a BC league is attempting to start up, in addition to the established L1O and PLSQ. Maybe for that level, all we can hope for are provincial leagues given the distances in the West. I wonder if it'd be too costly to have Atlantic teams in PLSQ. the goal should be to start off provincial and then eventually merge. Might be a bit of a lofty goal though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenFisk'sBiggestFan Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Alberta has the Alberta Major Soccer League. It is an amateur league that has 4 teams in north Alberta (4 in Edmonton), and 4 in south Alberta (3 in Calgary, and 1 in Lethbridge). The system includes promotion and relegation from the top level of soccer in Edmonton and Calgary. The top team in Edmonton or Calgary's Premier League can challenge the lowest placing team from the north (for edmonton) or south (for calgary) to a playoff. They play a home and away series with the winner entering in the AMSL. It seems like a good system. The League has some good quality, however it is not promoted at all. The winner goes to the Challenge cup. It doesn't compare with L1O or PLSQ really but it could be converted to something similar with a bit of work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Kent said: I believe @rob.notenboom has heard a bit of talk about a league in Saskatchewan, or maybe it was including one or two of its neighbouring provinces, but it sounded like very early talk, probably just at the conceptual level, and I haven't heard him mention it in a while. Thats a terrible run on sentence. My apologies for being too lazy to change it. Dave Nutt, formerly of the SSA and now in a new position with the CSA under JdV came on our podcast twice to discuss a prairie high performance league that was in the works. I think it hit some roadblocks and never fully came to fruition despite good intentions and a lot of hard work put in. IIRC it was mostly aimed at youth so more of a high performance developmental league. However, my memory is a bit fuzzy on the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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