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CPL new teams speculation

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He did say it was going to be more to get in (9:00), but no one was balking at the buy in price and that it was no where near other leagues.  And that there was much less risk joining now than commiting 2 years ago.  At 12:20 he goes through some positives that can be drawn from each team. I hope Pinder has him on again after the big night last night.  Or better yet get Clanachan on with tim and sid to brag up the CPL a bit.  

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Posted (edited)

You forgot David Clanachan at 8:30 when talking about expansion clubs for CPL "those who want the club have to satisfy that A) they can operate a team and B they are prepared to operate a team in the appropriate manner that we do".

Then 9:45 when talking about CPL expansion "the clubs are more expensive now"

😀

Edited by CDNFootballer

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How much does the clubs vs franchise thing really matter when he openly draws a parallel with franchise fees in other sports and also draws a parallel with his previous experience of working with would be Tim Horton franchisees where would be CanPL entries are concerned? Who cares about the semantics as long as it works and Canadian soccer grows stronger? I definitely don't. Think what's most interesting is how there is a noticeable shift away from talking about expansion to the point that pro/rel is a possibility and mentioning very aggressive timelines for doing it.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

You forgot David Clanachan at 8:30 when talking about expansion clubs for CPL "those who want the club have to satisfy that A) they can operate a team and B they are prepared to operate a team in the appropriate manner that we do".

Then 9:45 when talking about CPL expansion "the clubs are more expensive now"

😀

Yeah, but the proper reasoning as the erudites here insist upon is that you can say "clubs" and "team" as much as you want, but those words don't have any value.

It is not the same as as saying "franchise" once. It is a word that overrules all the other ones and establishes itself as a definitive argument, and can be applied retroactively, and anticipates and conditions all future terminology. It's quite the word.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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No Ottawa Fury for 2020 apparently, hopefully 1 more club added for 2020 though, slow and steady growth is what the CPL needs.

"For now, however, it looks like Clanachan will need to secure his eighth team outside of the nation’s capital. He’s looking to add at least one more club ahead of the 2020 season, though there are multiple ownership groups that have gone ahead of the pack in terms of preparedness. "

https://northerntribune.ca/de-guzman-on-canadian-premier-league/

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2 hours ago, narduch said:

Seems to be getting sort of late to add any more  teams

I don't know.  Think the league would be happy to announce entrants for the 2021 season before this year closes out but there may be one or two (I'm convinced there are 1 or 2) prospects who're as good as signed by this point.  Whether that's for next season or the season after who knows?

I'd bet there is a lot fo cat-and-mouse going on right now.  These aren't stupid people.  Prospects know the league needs to add a few teams and are trying to get the most favourable terms possible.  But that might be a risky business. As teams join that leverage disappear.   

Somebody who things they're almost there might get burned.  One team wins admission, we're at 8, a 2nd gets announced for 2021 and we're at 9 and suddenly there's no rush for who'll be 10.  The league will hold all the cards.  And with Ottawa looking in from the outside and CPL expansion looking a reality...well. 

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Someone in the know from halifax...how long did it take to put down your pop up at wanderers??  I am guessing it would take the same amount of time to put up some stands at prairieland in Saskatoon.  They are drumming up interest, testing the waters, building momentum, why do that and then let it sit for a year.  I bet they are making their case to CLanahan right now, trying to get that entry fee down to a reasonable level.  Enough that the founder teams dont feel like chumps for taking the initial risk, but not so much it discourages the expansion teams needed to FLESH out the league and make the product better across the board.  

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It would be great if they can add an 8th team so that they could go to a schedule where they are playing mostly weekend matches rather than weeknight matches which really negatively impact attendance.  Whether that is Ottawa or someone else, that would be great.  Personally, I would keep it to even numbers until you possibly get into the teens and can have bye weeks like in the CFL but still keep the bulk of matches on the weekends. So add one in 2020 and two in 2021.  One of those 3 will hopefully be Ottawa.  And then 2 of Montreal, Quebec, Saskatoon, Surrey and Kitchener/London.  

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21 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Someone in the know from halifax...how long did it take to put down your pop up at wanderers??  I am guessing it would take the same amount of time to put up some stands at prairieland in Saskatoon.  They are drumming up interest, testing the waters, building momentum, why do that and then let it sit for a year.  I bet they are making their case to CLanahan right now, trying to get that entry fee down to a reasonable level.  Enough that the founder teams dont feel like chumps for taking the initial risk, but not so much it discourages the expansion teams needed to FLESH out the league and make the product better across the board.  

Certainly not impossible. I am not sure what needs clearing town planning wise but the stadium could very well happen for next year if they had an agreement with Prairieland and wanted it to. The bigger question is likely whether the ownership feels they have community partnerships/sponsorship in place and more importantly whether the player pool and club staff/infrastructure is ready. That is the stuff you don't want to rush into. 

I don't have concerns about the crowd/attendance. While the two games so far have been modest but solid a much larger group of people will come running out of the woodwork if a team was announced. 

I don't think the ownership ever ruled out 2020 but I think 2021 was always more likely a safer bet. 

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12 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

No Ottawa Fury for 2020 apparently, hopefully 1 more club added for 2020 though, slow and steady growth is what the CPL needs.

"For now, however, it looks like Clanachan will need to secure his eighth team outside of the nation’s capital. He’s looking to add at least one more club ahead of the 2020 season, though there are multiple ownership groups that have gone ahead of the pack in terms of preparedness. "

https://northerntribune.ca/de-guzman-on-canadian-premier-league/

I don't put a lot of faith in that article considering it makes a huge assumption regarding the most significant factor in play - CONCACAF sanctioning.  CONCACAF may or may not want to go to war with Ottawa to force a move to CPL, but if last year suggested anything, it is that the decision to stay in USL may not be Ottawa's.

"“Under international sanctioning rules, clubs that are affiliated to an association may only join competitions in another association’s territory under exceptional circumstances."

"...as it stands to date, we do not see exceptional circumstances, given the launch of the Canadian Premier League (CPL) for the 2019 season,”

CONCACAF may have conceded last year due to the short notice and disruption it may have caused but I see no reason why the same logic doesn't apply this year - with plenty of notice to allow them to prepare for what is coming. 

 

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On another note, I was just thinking about how pro-rel would be implemented in CanPL and I wondered:  Does a salary-capped league need pro-rel? Usually Pro-rel is in leagues where there is no cap on spending, therefore some teams spend much more than others and create a noticeable gap in quality between top and bottom. CanPL (and MLS) are built on the idea that even if you have a bad season, you could rebound and win it all the following year because of wage parity. The only reason to split into divisions is if there are too many teams in the league and it gets cumbersome. If CPL never expands beyond 16 teams and a salary cap is always in place, I can't see a reason for Pro-Rel. 

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21 minutes ago, Initial B said:

On another note, I was just thinking about how pro-rel would be implemented in CanPL and I wondered:  Does a salary-capped league need pro-rel? Usually Pro-rel is in leagues where there is no cap on spending, therefore some teams spend much more than others and create a noticeable gap in quality between top and bottom. CanPL (and MLS) are built on the idea that even if you have a bad season, you could rebound and win it all the following year because of wage parity. The only reason to split into divisions is if there are too many teams in the league and it gets cumbersome. If CPL never expands beyond 16 teams and a salary cap is always in place, I can't see a reason for Pro-Rel. 

Even with spending being similar there can still be a pretty big gap in quality. Look for most of their existence. If they had gotten relegated, I am sure they would have righted the ship a lot sooner

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Initial B said:

On another note, I was just thinking about how pro-rel would be implemented in CanPL and I wondered:  Does a salary-capped league need pro-rel? Usually Pro-rel is in leagues where there is no cap on spending, therefore some teams spend much more than others and create a noticeable gap in quality between top and bottom. CanPL (and MLS) are built on the idea that even if you have a bad season, you could rebound and win it all the following year because of wage parity. The only reason to split into divisions is if there are too many teams in the league and it gets cumbersome. If CPL never expands beyond 16 teams and a salary cap is always in place, I can't see a reason for Pro-Rel. 

Pro-relegation should be introduced when the league becomes open-market and cap restrictions are taken away.

Edited by Macksam

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On ‎7‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 9:03 AM, dyslexic nam said:

I don't put a lot of faith in that article considering it makes a huge assumption regarding the most significant factor in play - CONCACAF sanctioning.  CONCACAF may or may not want to go to war with Ottawa to force a move to CPL, but if last year suggested anything, it is that the decision to stay in USL may not be Ottawa's.

"“Under international sanctioning rules, clubs that are affiliated to an association may only join competitions in another association’s territory under exceptional circumstances."

"...as it stands to date, we do not see exceptional circumstances, given the launch of the Canadian Premier League (CPL) for the 2019 season,”

CONCACAF may have conceded last year due to the short notice and disruption it may have caused but I see no reason why the same logic doesn't apply this year - with plenty of notice to allow them to prepare for what is coming. 

 

Like he said

 

 

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2 hours ago, Initial B said:

On another note, I was just thinking about how pro-rel would be implemented in CanPL and I wondered:  Does a salary-capped league need pro-rel? ... I can't see a reason for Pro-Rel. 

I don't see how the two are connected or why having one prevents the other. You can have salary caps to increase "competitiveness" and still reward successful teams by promoting them or allowing them to "stay up".

Pro-rel is about sporting merit and reasonable playing schedules based on league size. It was created to manage having more teams than could play in a single league and is based on rewarding teams that do well on the pitch.

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Posted (edited)

Looks like Ottawa are willing to play chicken with Concacaf and potentially play the victim card. Kinda like a slum lord hanging on to a run down piece of real estate and fighting city hall

Its a shame that Ottawa soccer fans are dragged in and forced to pick sides in a proxy war being waged by MLS/MLSE on CPL/Concacaf on their turf

Edited by SpursFlu

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3 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Looks like Ottawa are willing to play chicken with Concacaf and potentially play the victim card. Kinda like a slum lord hanging on to a run down piece of real estate and fighting city hall

Its a shame that Ottawa soccer fans are dragged in and forced to pick sides in a proxy war being waged by MLS/MLSE on CPL/Concacaf on their turf

Proxy war is right. I think you’re onto something there. 

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I think you'll see the Fury join CPL for the 2022 season. By that point, they'll have been in the USL for 5 years and the CPL will have been through three years of operations. If the CPL is stable and growing, I can't see why OSEG wouldn't join CPL at that point.

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Think the USL franchises go through 5 year cycles in terms of how they are structured (Nipun Chopra has blogged at length on this subject), so it might the obvious time to do another move.

Meanwhile in Vancouver this is what Nick Dasovic has to say:

https://www.eightysixforever.com/2019/8/1/20747967/1-on-1-with-whitecaps-development-squad-head-coach-nick-dasovic

...If tomorrow we could have a team in the CPL for example, that would be great. But until something like that actually happens, if it does happen, we’re going to continue working in this environment and going in this direction. I think we’re going to make the best of it. For example, I think we have seven players right now who made the final roster for the U-17 national team, and a lot of that has to do with the experiences they got through the development program playing against high level opponents. So the players are getting a lot out of it, which is exactly what we need them to do.”

Skeptical that's ever happening, but interesting that it still appears to be a talking point for the Whitecaps.

 

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