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CPL new teams speculation


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10 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

...Then again I doubt there will ever be a real way to verify this or much else that happens in the league unless some journalists really start covering and ask something other  then fluffball questions.

They are too scared about losing access to do that, unfortunately.

11 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

CPL doesn't "claim" they have clubs, they in fact do have clubs and not franchises...

You can usually join your local amateur soccer club and the membership have a vote at its AGM where office holders are concerned. Been there, done that have been in the meetings. Do the "members" of CanPL "clubs" have the ability to do that or is everything decided by the rich investor(s) who paid the league entry fee and own the shares in the holding company set up to run the team?

In some countries like Germany and Spain the original club structure was often retained into the professional era and members can still vote for the club president and have a genuine say in how their club is run. In both the UK and North America there tends to be an identifiable owner with a majority shareholding calling all the shots in the fully pro national leagues and the fans are basically just paying customers in that context.

The idea that there is some crucial difference between how the Glazers run Man Utd and MLSE runs TFC is dubious at best and as long as it gets the job done who really cares about the finer nuances and semantics of it, if Bob Young rather than a fan owned supporters trust type club is able to make pro soccer work in Hamilton? If a traditional club sort of approach was going to work in Canada in terms of having a national league we would be posting about the 1926-1998 iteration of the NSL on here and there would have been no niche for a league like CanPL to fill.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot
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11 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

The reality is we dont really have a clue whats going on behind closed doors on the business side. The league lets out a few details that they want us to know. However we have no idea how accurate they are or how they are twisted around

....

 

There aren't any great secrects anymore are there?  Stuff always gets out there on way or another.

We are going to get a pretty good idea on a few things out of Valour though I expect.   As a community owned not-for-profit they will have to publish a financial disclosure for fiscal 2019.  Payables, receivables and their sources/vendors etc.  Should give us a reasonable idea as to what a CPL operating budget is, salary cap and league sponsorship revenue.   

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Latest from David Clanachan on expansion:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/pinder-steinberg/david-clanachan-canadian-championship-matchups-success-cpl-expansion/

5:40 expansion broached a subject, how many for next season? numbers clubs and regions still interested 18 to 22, talks up stadium as the stumbling block, sees WC 2026 as helping for training camps etc

7:40 who handles expansion and how do you deal with 20 interested markets

9:15 price is more now, he uses the phrase "some of the other sports franchises"

10:30 most important factor?

15:30 still a pathway for Ottawa? says there is still a pathway, no further conversations, ball is in their court

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot
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He did say it was going to be more to get in (9:00), but no one was balking at the buy in price and that it was no where near other leagues.  And that there was much less risk joining now than commiting 2 years ago.  At 12:20 he goes through some positives that can be drawn from each team. I hope Pinder has him on again after the big night last night.  Or better yet get Clanachan on with tim and sid to brag up the CPL a bit.  

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You forgot David Clanachan at 8:30 when talking about expansion clubs for CPL "those who want the club have to satisfy that A) they can operate a team and B they are prepared to operate a team in the appropriate manner that we do".

Then 9:45 when talking about CPL expansion "the clubs are more expensive now"

😀

Edited by CDNFootballer
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How much does the clubs vs franchise thing really matter when he openly draws a parallel with franchise fees in other sports and also draws a parallel with his previous experience of working with would be Tim Horton franchisees where would be CanPL entries are concerned? Who cares about the semantics as long as it works and Canadian soccer grows stronger? I definitely don't. Think what's most interesting is how there is a noticeable shift away from talking about expansion to the point that pro/rel is a possibility and mentioning very aggressive timelines for doing it.

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13 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

You forgot David Clanachan at 8:30 when talking about expansion clubs for CPL "those who want the club have to satisfy that A) they can operate a team and B they are prepared to operate a team in the appropriate manner that we do".

Then 9:45 when talking about CPL expansion "the clubs are more expensive now"

😀

Yeah, but the proper reasoning as the erudites here insist upon is that you can say "clubs" and "team" as much as you want, but those words don't have any value.

It is not the same as as saying "franchise" once. It is a word that overrules all the other ones and establishes itself as a definitive argument, and can be applied retroactively, and anticipates and conditions all future terminology. It's quite the word.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist
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No Ottawa Fury for 2020 apparently, hopefully 1 more club added for 2020 though, slow and steady growth is what the CPL needs.

"For now, however, it looks like Clanachan will need to secure his eighth team outside of the nation’s capital. He’s looking to add at least one more club ahead of the 2020 season, though there are multiple ownership groups that have gone ahead of the pack in terms of preparedness. "

https://northerntribune.ca/de-guzman-on-canadian-premier-league/

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2 hours ago, narduch said:

Seems to be getting sort of late to add any more  teams

I don't know.  Think the league would be happy to announce entrants for the 2021 season before this year closes out but there may be one or two (I'm convinced there are 1 or 2) prospects who're as good as signed by this point.  Whether that's for next season or the season after who knows?

I'd bet there is a lot fo cat-and-mouse going on right now.  These aren't stupid people.  Prospects know the league needs to add a few teams and are trying to get the most favourable terms possible.  But that might be a risky business. As teams join that leverage disappear.   

Somebody who things they're almost there might get burned.  One team wins admission, we're at 8, a 2nd gets announced for 2021 and we're at 9 and suddenly there's no rush for who'll be 10.  The league will hold all the cards.  And with Ottawa looking in from the outside and CPL expansion looking a reality...well. 

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Someone in the know from halifax...how long did it take to put down your pop up at wanderers??  I am guessing it would take the same amount of time to put up some stands at prairieland in Saskatoon.  They are drumming up interest, testing the waters, building momentum, why do that and then let it sit for a year.  I bet they are making their case to CLanahan right now, trying to get that entry fee down to a reasonable level.  Enough that the founder teams dont feel like chumps for taking the initial risk, but not so much it discourages the expansion teams needed to FLESH out the league and make the product better across the board.  

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It would be great if they can add an 8th team so that they could go to a schedule where they are playing mostly weekend matches rather than weeknight matches which really negatively impact attendance.  Whether that is Ottawa or someone else, that would be great.  Personally, I would keep it to even numbers until you possibly get into the teens and can have bye weeks like in the CFL but still keep the bulk of matches on the weekends. So add one in 2020 and two in 2021.  One of those 3 will hopefully be Ottawa.  And then 2 of Montreal, Quebec, Saskatoon, Surrey and Kitchener/London.  

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21 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Someone in the know from halifax...how long did it take to put down your pop up at wanderers??  I am guessing it would take the same amount of time to put up some stands at prairieland in Saskatoon.  They are drumming up interest, testing the waters, building momentum, why do that and then let it sit for a year.  I bet they are making their case to CLanahan right now, trying to get that entry fee down to a reasonable level.  Enough that the founder teams dont feel like chumps for taking the initial risk, but not so much it discourages the expansion teams needed to FLESH out the league and make the product better across the board.  

Certainly not impossible. I am not sure what needs clearing town planning wise but the stadium could very well happen for next year if they had an agreement with Prairieland and wanted it to. The bigger question is likely whether the ownership feels they have community partnerships/sponsorship in place and more importantly whether the player pool and club staff/infrastructure is ready. That is the stuff you don't want to rush into. 

I don't have concerns about the crowd/attendance. While the two games so far have been modest but solid a much larger group of people will come running out of the woodwork if a team was announced. 

I don't think the ownership ever ruled out 2020 but I think 2021 was always more likely a safer bet. 

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12 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

No Ottawa Fury for 2020 apparently, hopefully 1 more club added for 2020 though, slow and steady growth is what the CPL needs.

"For now, however, it looks like Clanachan will need to secure his eighth team outside of the nation’s capital. He’s looking to add at least one more club ahead of the 2020 season, though there are multiple ownership groups that have gone ahead of the pack in terms of preparedness. "

https://northerntribune.ca/de-guzman-on-canadian-premier-league/

I don't put a lot of faith in that article considering it makes a huge assumption regarding the most significant factor in play - CONCACAF sanctioning.  CONCACAF may or may not want to go to war with Ottawa to force a move to CPL, but if last year suggested anything, it is that the decision to stay in USL may not be Ottawa's.

"“Under international sanctioning rules, clubs that are affiliated to an association may only join competitions in another association’s territory under exceptional circumstances."

"...as it stands to date, we do not see exceptional circumstances, given the launch of the Canadian Premier League (CPL) for the 2019 season,”

CONCACAF may have conceded last year due to the short notice and disruption it may have caused but I see no reason why the same logic doesn't apply this year - with plenty of notice to allow them to prepare for what is coming. 

 

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On another note, I was just thinking about how pro-rel would be implemented in CanPL and I wondered:  Does a salary-capped league need pro-rel? Usually Pro-rel is in leagues where there is no cap on spending, therefore some teams spend much more than others and create a noticeable gap in quality between top and bottom. CanPL (and MLS) are built on the idea that even if you have a bad season, you could rebound and win it all the following year because of wage parity. The only reason to split into divisions is if there are too many teams in the league and it gets cumbersome. If CPL never expands beyond 16 teams and a salary cap is always in place, I can't see a reason for Pro-Rel. 

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21 minutes ago, Initial B said:

On another note, I was just thinking about how pro-rel would be implemented in CanPL and I wondered:  Does a salary-capped league need pro-rel? Usually Pro-rel is in leagues where there is no cap on spending, therefore some teams spend much more than others and create a noticeable gap in quality between top and bottom. CanPL (and MLS) are built on the idea that even if you have a bad season, you could rebound and win it all the following year because of wage parity. The only reason to split into divisions is if there are too many teams in the league and it gets cumbersome. If CPL never expands beyond 16 teams and a salary cap is always in place, I can't see a reason for Pro-Rel. 

Even with spending being similar there can still be a pretty big gap in quality. Look for most of their existence. If they had gotten relegated, I am sure they would have righted the ship a lot sooner

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1 hour ago, Initial B said:

On another note, I was just thinking about how pro-rel would be implemented in CanPL and I wondered:  Does a salary-capped league need pro-rel? Usually Pro-rel is in leagues where there is no cap on spending, therefore some teams spend much more than others and create a noticeable gap in quality between top and bottom. CanPL (and MLS) are built on the idea that even if you have a bad season, you could rebound and win it all the following year because of wage parity. The only reason to split into divisions is if there are too many teams in the league and it gets cumbersome. If CPL never expands beyond 16 teams and a salary cap is always in place, I can't see a reason for Pro-Rel. 

Pro-relegation should be introduced when the league becomes open-market and cap restrictions are taken away.

Edited by Macksam
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On ‎7‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 9:03 AM, dyslexic nam said:

I don't put a lot of faith in that article considering it makes a huge assumption regarding the most significant factor in play - CONCACAF sanctioning.  CONCACAF may or may not want to go to war with Ottawa to force a move to CPL, but if last year suggested anything, it is that the decision to stay in USL may not be Ottawa's.

"“Under international sanctioning rules, clubs that are affiliated to an association may only join competitions in another association’s territory under exceptional circumstances."

"...as it stands to date, we do not see exceptional circumstances, given the launch of the Canadian Premier League (CPL) for the 2019 season,”

CONCACAF may have conceded last year due to the short notice and disruption it may have caused but I see no reason why the same logic doesn't apply this year - with plenty of notice to allow them to prepare for what is coming. 

 

Like he said

 

 

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2 hours ago, Initial B said:

On another note, I was just thinking about how pro-rel would be implemented in CanPL and I wondered:  Does a salary-capped league need pro-rel? ... I can't see a reason for Pro-Rel. 

I don't see how the two are connected or why having one prevents the other. You can have salary caps to increase "competitiveness" and still reward successful teams by promoting them or allowing them to "stay up".

Pro-rel is about sporting merit and reasonable playing schedules based on league size. It was created to manage having more teams than could play in a single league and is based on rewarding teams that do well on the pitch.

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Looks like Ottawa are willing to play chicken with Concacaf and potentially play the victim card. Kinda like a slum lord hanging on to a run down piece of real estate and fighting city hall

Its a shame that Ottawa soccer fans are dragged in and forced to pick sides in a proxy war being waged by MLS/MLSE on CPL/Concacaf on their turf

Edited by SpursFlu
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