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CPL new teams speculation

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Posted (edited)
On 6/5/2019 at 11:38 AM, Initial B said:

Someone up thread said that pro-rel works in europe because there was a problem to solve: too many teams. Canada has it's own problem to solve with Pro-Rel: too much space.

There might be some ways around this issue though. One thing I've been wondering about, in part because we already have the spring/fall league split, is a sort of half-pro/rel. Let's say there's 24 teams across the country, split into three regions of 8 (presumably west/central/east). Play a first half season where each region plays itself home-home, so you get 14 games each. If you finish near the top, you're "promoted" and put in a national league for the second half, to play for the championship. There's different options at that point admittedly, whether the 24 teams are split in two national leagues (which still reduces travel costs, only having national travel for half the year) or maybe only the top 2 in each region are promoted, leaving the bottom 6 to continue regional play.

Either way, it could enhance regional rivalries, decrease travel costs, provide that hope of "promotion" and fear of "relegation", while also keeping teams competitive. So for instance, this point:

On 6/5/2019 at 10:51 PM, Kent said:

Part way through the 2012 season while sitting through another hopeless loss (2011 and 2012 were their two worst seasons ever I think) I found myself wishing they could have been relegated after their 2011 season so that they would have a chance of being competitive in a lower level league the following season. Going through back to back horrible seasons seems worse to me than going through a horrible season, being relegated and then having a middle of the table type of season. At least you get to see a few wins in person as a season ticket holder in the second season.

would be mitigated. You might get destroyed by some stronger teams in the first half, but then you're hopefully facing more equal teams in the second half and can even sneak your way to a lesser title.

I'm sure there are flaws with the idea, but it's something I've been mulling over and figured it'd be worth writing down 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Edited by Viruk42

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4 hours ago, Viruk42 said:

There might be some ways around this issue though. One thing I've been wondering about, in part because we already have the spring/fall league split, is a sort of half-pro/rel. Let's say there's 24 teams across the country, split into three regions of 8 (presumably west/central/east). Play a first half season where each region plays itself home-home, so you get 14 games each. If you finish near the top, you're "promoted" and put in a national league for the second half, to play for the championship. There's different options at that point admittedly, whether the 24 teams are split in two national leagues (which still reduces travel costs, only having national travel for half the year) or maybe only the top 2 in each region are promoted, leaving the bottom 6 to continue regional play.

Either way, it could enhance regional rivalries, decrease travel costs, provide that hope of "promotion" and fear of "relegation", while also keeping teams competitive. So for instance, this point:

would be mitigated. You might get destroyed by some stronger teams in the first half, but then you're hopefully facing more equal teams in the second half and can even sneak your way to a lesser title.

I'm sure there are flaws with the idea, but it's something I've been mulling over and figured it'd be worth writing down 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Your idea is an interesting one and does sort of fit the split season model. The point about winning more by playing weaker teams is certainly valid.

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14 hours ago, Viruk42 said:

There might be some ways around this issue though. One thing I've been wondering about, in part because we already have the spring/fall league split, is a sort of half-pro/rel. Let's say there's 24 teams across the country, split into three regions of 8 (presumably west/central/east). Play a first half season where each region plays itself home-home, so you get 14 games each. If you finish near the top, you're "promoted" and put in a national league for the second half, to play for the championship. There's different options at that point admittedly, whether the 24 teams are split in two national leagues (which still reduces travel costs, only having national travel for half the year) or maybe only the top 2 in each region are promoted, leaving the bottom 6 to continue regional play.

Either way, it could enhance regional rivalries, decrease travel costs, provide that hope of "promotion" and fear of "relegation", while also keeping teams competitive. So for instance, this point:

would be mitigated. You might get destroyed by some stronger teams in the first half, but then you're hopefully facing more equal teams in the second half and can even sneak your way to a lesser title.

I'm sure there are flaws with the idea, but it's something I've been mulling over and figured it'd be worth writing down 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Remember the Duanne Rollins Fantasy League?

I seem to remember it being split very much in this way. Regional Leagues to start, with top 8 teams qualifying to the A-League, and others to a 2-division (East/West) B-League. There were 10-teams in either B-league, but this could easily be 8-team.

At the end of the season we had playoffs with the top-2 from from B-East & B-West entered in the first round with the bottom 4 from A. The top-4 from A entered in the 2nd round. Two-leg aggregate.

So in the end, you had a winner for each league, plus a champion from a final series of playoffs. 

@Gopherbashi never ended up presenting the possibility of a 2nd season, so the pro/rel aspect (as originally presented) never came into play. I would've just preferred a reset: Regional Spring, A & B league Fall, Final Cup competition.

This sounds similar to what you're proposing, and I kinda liked the format.

IRL: With an annual reset to Regionals, I would shorten the playoffs by excluding the bottom 4 from A-league. But other than that, a Regional Spring, and National/Divisional Fall leagues would work well and ensure we have representation from across the country in the A-league.

 

 

Also, having pronounced B-East and B-West out loud as Beast and Best would be hilarious. We would need better names for those leagues.

 

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14 hours ago, Viruk42 said:

Play a first half season where each region plays itself home-home, so you get 14 games each. If you finish near the top, you're "promoted" and put in a national league for the second half, to play for the championship. There's different options at that point admittedly, whether the 24 teams are split in two national leagues (which still reduces travel costs, only having national travel for half the year) or maybe only the top 2 in each region are promoted, leaving the bottom 6 to continue regional play.

I think this is a good idea in theory, however it would probably be a scheduling nightmare, especially for teams that don't own their own stadium

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1 minute ago, deschamp86 said:

I think this is a good idea in theory, however it would probably be a scheduling nightmare, especially for teams that don't own their own stadium

Valid point. Having experience as an event planner, I can tell you that booking venues, especially during the summer, can be insane.

Given the switch of teams from regional to national/divisional, it wouldn't even be possible to pre-book the home matches for that 2nd season (as significant overlap is possible).

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35 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

More from Alex Bunbury despite the NDA:

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2019/06/11/la-premiere-ligue-canadienne-lorgne-quebec

My French is far from fluent but looks like it is probably more about Quebec City now than Laval.

This bit stands out...

“À Québec, cette nouvelle équipe pourrait élire domicile au stade TELUS de l’Université Laval qui contient 12 817 places assises. La CPL exige que ses franchises évoluent sur un terrain pouvant accueillir un minimum de 6000 personnes...”

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I think the direct quote from Bunbury just after that was particularly noteworthy in that it specifically mentioned the possibility of using the Laval University varsity football stadium that people always speculate about, but people should note the cautionary part about there being no guarantee that the team will be born:

« Le stade de l'Université Laval serait intéressant pendant quelques années, après quoi on pourrait penser à bâtir un nouveau stade. C'est très excitant, mais il n'y a aucune garantie pour l'instant que l'équipe verra le jour », a précisé Bunbury, qui possède un club de troisième division au Portugal.

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56 minutes ago, Ams1984 said:

This bit stands out...

“À Québec, cette nouvelle équipe pourrait élire domicile au stade TELUS de l’Université Laval qui contient 12 817 places assises. La CPL exige que ses franchises évoluent sur un terrain pouvant accueillir un minimum de 6000 personnes...”

He added that they could build a new stadium after a few years at Telus

He also ends by saying there's no guarantee that there will be a team.

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On 6/12/2019 at 9:48 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

My French is far from fluent but looks like it is probably more about Quebec City now than Laval.

Was it ever about playing in the city of Laval? If the plan is to have a Quebec City team at Laval University (which is in Quebec City), perhaps there was only ever one serious Quebec team in the offing, not two? (gosh, I hadn't realized that they'd amalgamated Sainte-Foy into Quebec City!)

(But I'm pretty ignorant on the issue - I'm just throwing it out there after reading this artcle)

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Posted (edited)

Alex Bunbury was definitely talking about Laval the suburban city next to Montreal as being his main target.

https://northerntribune.ca/bunbury-cpl-montreal-bid/

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/bunbury-cpl-working-diligently-to-bring-a-club-to-montreal-1.1243315

{9:20 onwards}

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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I was just reading in another thread how WestJet is providing transportation options for the CPL. If we narrow down prospective cities to match those that WestJet flies to, then teams can be drawn from a prospective pool of:

East: St John's, Gander, Corner Brook, Sydney, Halifax, Charlottetown,  Moncton, Fredericton, Quebec City, Montreal.

Central: Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, Kitchener-Waterloo, London, Windsor, Thunder Bay, Winnipeg, Brandon.

West: Regina, Saskatoon, Calgary, Edmonton, Grand Prairie, Fort McMurray, Kamloops, Kelowna, Penticton, Abbotsford, Prince George, Fort St John, Vancouver, Victoria, Nanaimo, Whitehorse(!), Yellowknife(!)

Notice there is no Saint John, NB. Still, that is 36 towns that WestJet flies to - enough for a Div1 and possibly Div2 setup.

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Even with Saint John there would probably be an airport shuttle from Frederiction or Moncton that could be arranged easily enough? Ditto with something like St Catherines and Hamilton or Barrie and Toronto. Think your list shows that any of the possibilities that typically gets mentioned other than possibly Sudbury (which is an internet thing more than something Beirne and Clanachan have mentioned) is viable with Westjet.

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1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

That link to the Bunbury interview is from mid Jan and the article is from end of April.    Who knows whats changed since then?  

We know he had to sign a non-disclosure agreement (NDA). ;)

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15 hours ago, Initial B said:

I was just reading in another thread how WestJet is providing transportation options for the CPL. If we narrow down prospective cities to match those that WestJet flies to, then teams can be drawn from a prospective pool of:

East: St John's, Gander, Corner Brook, Sydney, Halifax, Charlottetown,  Moncton, Fredericton, Quebec City, Montreal.

Central: Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, Kitchener-Waterloo, London, Windsor, Thunder Bay, Winnipeg, Brandon.

West: Regina, Saskatoon, Calgary, Edmonton, Grand Prairie, Fort McMurray, Kamloops, Kelowna, Penticton, Abbotsford, Prince George, Fort St John, Vancouver, Victoria, Nanaimo, Whitehorse(!), Yellowknife(!)

Notice there is no Saint John, NB. Still, that is 36 towns that WestJet flies to - enough for a Div1 and possibly Div2 setup.

WestJet also has direct flights to Barcelona now--if Catalonia separates we might need another league to play in.

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On 6/18/2019 at 5:17 PM, Gopherbashi said:

I can't wait for the CatPL.

 I use .ca and .cat sites, and frequently put the wrong one in going fast and get weird results. 

I loved it when some of the more partisan Catalans wanted their own Olympic Committee, rejecting the Spanish OC, and there were literally stickers out there saying "we want COC"

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7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 I use .ca and .cat sites, and frequently put the wrong one in going fast and get weird results. 

I loved it when some of the more partisan Catalans wanted their own Olympic Committee, rejecting the Spanish OC, and there were literally stickers out there saying "we want COC"

Reminds me of this one time I started getting ads on Facebook to join some Albanian Socialist group.

To this day, I still have no idea how I got lumped into that demographic.

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On 5/30/2019 at 2:44 PM, Initial B said:

I've been doing some thinking about how to implement a regional 2nd division in CPL and the problem I come across is that I don't think there are enough teams out west to do it. They can't even get a regional 3 division off the ground in BC or Alberta, they have to join USL2. Ontario and Quebec seem to have the majority of the I'm wondering if the plan is to build the footprint of soccer clubs out west (say 7 teams) in a 16-club CPL. The remaining teams will be in Ontario and parts east. I could see a second division solely comprised of eastern teams. If they institute pro-rel, only the eastern teams would be considered for relegation because if a western team was relegated, that would be a death sentence due to the loss of media revenue and ballooning travel costs. This asymmetrical format would have to continue until they get enough western teams to make it's own regional Div2, which might take 2 decades.

Let's get a few years of stable Div 1 football before we worry about D2.

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On 6/3/2019 at 8:42 PM, lazlo_80 said:

Just curious, how many teams do people here believe will be in the CPL by the time we host the World Cup?

People aren't expecting full first and second division within 7 years are they?

We need to stop fixating on certain numbers, or certain cities, or certain rivalry possibilities. The ONLY thing that matters is financial stability. It is okay to only add one team every four years if that is what is necessary to create a stable, long-lasting, viable league. Take note of the CFL's 1990s United States Expansion project and then do the exact opposite.

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