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CPL new teams speculation

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I heard on TSN1150 Hamilton that the Sask CEBL team is selling extremely well too.

 

I agree about London being solid. Could be the "Riders" of the CPL. I also go as far as to wonder about adding London and KW at the same time, for the ffect they would have on each other. This based on the OHL rivalry they have, and just a general feeling from living in or between them most of life until moving to Hamilton.

I actually thin that might work in the CFL one day as well. For either league in either city, if somebody went in with enough confidence to build/modify an excellent small stadium, that amount of visibility and commitment would generate enough interest and buy-in to succeed. 

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2 hours ago, Ansem said:

Having weak ownership isn't better either. See it like this.

There's supposedly 5 bids in Quebec. A higher expansion fee might encourage ownerships to partner up, strengthening the team's ownership overall.

We are going to shoot ourselves in the foot again because of greed. 

The Mediapro deal is not for the 7 clubs to grab on tight to like a miser to gold. It is premised on a promise: expansion. Not expanding means not fulfilling the CPL part of the bargain. 

If we can't get to 12 or 14 because the Mediapro deal got to the head of seven nascent clubs, then Mediapro will just pull out because we did not keep our word: we will have to go **** off  and make asses of ourselves, like we have always done in Canada.

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29 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

We are going to shoot ourselves in the foot again because of greed. 

The Mediapro deal is not for the 7 clubs to grab on tight to like a miser to gold. It is premised on a promise: expansion. Not expanding means not fulfilling the CPL part of the bargain. 

If we can't get to 12 or 14 because the Mediapro deal got to the head of seven nascent clubs, then Mediapro will just pull out because we did not keep our word: we will have to go **** off  and make asses of ourselves, like we have always done in Canada.

I had similar concerns about the media pro deal causing them to halt their ambitious expansion plans but the league big wigs seem like they know what they are doing so I wouldn't too alarmed by this. I still think they can get to 16 teams before any second division talks come in. 

As for people who are saying the smaller markets might not have the ability to get the economics right, well that's the whole point of eventually getting promotion relegation, an open market system.

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7 minutes ago, Big_M said:

How many people in Canada are willing to put 8M to have a team in a city of 500k or less?

Who knows.

What I do know is that the seven founding clubs want (allegedly) the expansion fee to be higher to offset whatever revenues they’d lose for making the slice of the current sponsorship pie even smaller.

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45 minutes ago, Big_M said:

How many people in Canada are willing to put 8M to have a team in a city of 500k or less?

The world's 10th economy? More than most nations but the league have to demonstrate that it's worth investing in to begin with

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Posted (edited)

Let’s remember that this $8,000,000 figure is just heresay right now. The people involved in the CPL are smart business people and I imagine they know how to valuate assets and entities accurately. With that in mind, is the league already saying to people a new club is worth 14 percent more than a new CFL franchise even though the fledgling league only has three games under its belt?

Edited by Macksam

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3 hours ago, Macksam said:

Let’s remember that this $8,000,000 figure is just heresay right now. The people involved in the CPL are smart business people and I imagine they know how to valuate assets and entities accurately. With that in mind, is the league already saying to people a new club is worth 14 percent more than a new CFL franchise even though the fledgling league only has three games under its belt?

At the end of the day, this is what I rely on, despite the speculation that goes on here.  These people amassed millions of dollars because they are better at business that I am.  The idea that I might know how to run a league better is interesting to chatter about, but when push comes to shove, these guys have made a substantial investment in the league.  I am sure they want the best possible outcome for CPL because it would maximize their own investment.  And this is a long game.  If we eventually get to a tiered structure with teams across the country and the level of fan support required to sustain that, these guys will be kings of the league since the major markets will always have a strong chance of ascending to the top of the pyramid.  In that context, I just can't see them throwing up barriers to reasonable, sustainable expansion because that makes poor business sense. 

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14 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:

I think you're misinterpretating that, SMF Field have a seating capacity of 3,940, over 4K with standing room and the grass etc. Joe Belan from the ownership group said they are doing this to see what kind of response they get. Overwhelming support being best case scenario, very few and somewhere in between. But if they want a professional team they need to do better than 1,900. I really want Saskatchewan to fill that void in the CanPL Map and be in this league, their population of 240,000 isn't a strong point but they really get behind their teams, not just the riders but junior hockey and lacrosse team rush that's playing in the NLL. Saskatoon just got a CEBL Team too for 2019

Two summers ago Valencia-Cosmos drew over 15000 in Regina at the Mosaic. Why can't that be the true test of interest in pro soccer, rather than testing it with soccer than is not really pro?

Or at least: somewhere between 15,000 + and 2000 (it will be higher), you are pretty well where you want to be when it comes to putting a CPL team together in terms of fan interest and support.

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12 hours ago, Big_M said:

How many people in Canada are willing to put 8M to have a team in a city of 500k or less?

Why create the need for major debt to get into the league, when the financials are iffy regardless of the MediaPro deal? You just put a stress on clubs that does not benefit them when worrying about everything else. In what other potential city, for example, is there a stadium that is ready to go? How many municipal and provincial governments have made financial committments? 

I can accept that a new club contributes seed, and that more than what the founders paid makes sense. But not an astronomical amount, and 8 million is too much, it forces a club to be managing 13-14 milliion from day one, instead of 4-5 million, which is what we have just seen.

In any case, what better way to lose the initiative, the enthusiasm, the possible good will from public institutions to help with stadiums, transport, other facilities? Just imagine: what if halfway through this season a club says they can't continue, it won't work, they are losing too much to compete? Then we are back to square one and will have to drop the fee anyways, creating a regression effect.

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18 hours ago, Macksam said:

Let’s remember that this $8,000,000 figure is just heresay right now

Wher did you hear this? Probably is nothing more than a rumor rather rhan a report. Speculation more likely instead of facts. A lot of CPL Owner vetting has been undisclosed and all we know that the fee was in the millions but if it indeed is 8M Jesus Christ that's a lot, my guess was 1-2M per club so that the league would have enough more than enough funds to pay its operations department, CSB and run this thing from the ground up sorta speak 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:

Wher did you hear this? Probably is nothing more than a rumor rather rhan a report. Speculation more likely instead of facts. A lot of CPL Owner vetting has been undisclosed and all we know that the fee was in the millions but if it indeed is 8M Jesus Christ that's a lot, my guess was 1-2M per club so that the league would have enough more than enough funds to pay its operations department, CSB and run this thing from the ground up sorta speak 

BBTB’s rebrand quoted somebody from Reddit who overhead things at the Hamilton game. Take that for what you will. See the post below.

On 5/1/2019 at 9:51 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Not sure what to make of this on reddit and what it would do to the expansion process if true:

Will be interesting to see if any new clubs will be added to pro membership at the CSA AGM. In procedural terms this is when any group would normally need to be added for a 2020 launch, and only Saskatoon appears to be far enough along on that where what is happening publicly is concerned.

 

Edited by Macksam

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10 hours ago, masster said:

... and a partnership with Prairieland Park.

This snippet is significant because it's where it has been reported that they would play in a CanPL context.

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1 hour ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

There's also a significant difference between 3 million and 8 million.  In light of some substantial sponsorship, 3 million may not be asking very much....

I guess how big a deal this would be depends on how many years the slice of future CSB income that the other teams need to be compensated for is calculated over, and whether the franchise fee is a lump sum payment up front, and if not how many years it is payable over. 

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1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

I guess how big a deal this would be depends on how many years the slice of future CSB income that the other teams need to be compensated for is calculated over, and whether the franchise fee is a lump sum payment up front, and if not how many years it is payable over. 

Could also be an area where they forego profits of the CSB from their share to pay for expansion fee. Really this is all speculation as no one really knows and the ones who do aren't providing details.

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Not that farfetched really as they are not only paying fees to join the league but buying a stake in CSB. The bigger CSB gets (which handles all the deals for all of Canada's soccer) the bigger the fee should be.

If the price to get in jumps, it has more to do with CSB than the league's value, especially this early in their existance. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ansem said:

Not that farfetched really as they are not only paying fees to join the league but buying a stake in CSB. The bigger CSB gets (which handles all the deals for all of Canada's soccer) the bigger the fee should be.

If the price to get in jumps, it has more to do with CSB than the league's value, especially this early in their existance. 

Wrong, or not necessarily right. Why? Because every new team, new market, new fan base, increases the value of CSB. You add to the value of something, that is a financial counterweight to any existing value you are buying into.

If you joining CPL adds to the value of the league, that means you should  get an incentive for the favour you are doing to the league: not be charged an exhorbitant fee, and thank you for joining.

Further: excessive fees will kill any notion of promotion or relegation from the get go. The reason is that any team that pays that much to enter CPL will logically call out for a guarantee to stay in, to be protected from relegation. The more difficult it is to get in, the harder it will be to convince those clubs to risk their presence.

Keep fees low, only marginally higher for new teams, so that the league can benefit from the seed money while ensuring its goal of reaching 12-14 teams. And stop making erroneous arguments about existing value--the existing value is grounded on the goal being upheld, not shot down.

 

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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3 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:
Wasnt the Canada Soccer annual GM this upcoming week? VP Nick Bontis is in Quebec City! I hope it has something to do with the CPL replanted bid that's vying for entry 

The Annual Meeting of Members was in Quebec City:
https://www.canadasoccer.com/canadian-soccer-leaders-unanimously-support-canada-soccer-safe-sport-roster-p162158

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I know this isn't going to be a closed league and eventually there will be pro-rel, but if we were to be stuck with 16 teams in single-table balanced perpetuity, I would choose Pacific FC, Mainland BCFC, FC Edmonton, Calvary FC, Saskatchewan FC, Valour FC, London FC, Kitchener-Waterloo FC, Forge FC, York 9 FC, Ottawa Fury, FC Laval, FC Quebec, Moncton FC, HFX Wanderers, St. John's FC. That pretty much covers the nation geographically, population-wise, and rivalry-wise.   

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47 minutes ago, Initial B said:

I know this isn't going to be a closed league and eventually there will be pro-rel, but if we were to be stuck with 16 teams in single-table balanced perpetuity, I would choose Pacific FC, Mainland BCFC, FC Edmonton, Calvary FC, Saskatchewan FC, Valour FC, London FC, Kitchener-Waterloo FC, Forge FC, York 9 FC, Ottawa Fury, FC Laval, FC Quebec, Moncton FC, HFX Wanderers, St. John's FC. That pretty much covers the nation geographically, population-wise, and rivalry-wise.   

No Mississauga?

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