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CPL new teams speculation

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, RickC said:

Sorry, but is it 18 cities or ownership groups? ...

Has been markets that has been mentioned in that context. Not so far-fetched as it maybe sounds initially if they are serious about a population of 200,000 being enough and they are including preliminary inquiries for more information as well as more solid Joe Belan in Saskatoon levels of interest. Also worth bearing in mind that Langley, Surrey and Abbotsford could be counted separately in the context of a Fraser Valley team.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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48 minutes ago, RickC said:

Sorry, but is it 18 cities or ownership groups? Vastly different concepts. Aren't there something like five ownership groups in Montreal area alone (or was it Quebec, didn't look back to that earlier post). So, if it's 18 ownership groups maybe there are only 10 (or whatever number as an example) cities involved. I'm not negative at all on the growth of CPL, but we've seen information being misconstrued before.

When speaking with Kurt Larsson at the kit launch Clanachan said 18 groups. not cities.

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Posted (edited)

https://valourfc.canpl.ca/article/checking-in-with-the-commissioner-from-open-trials

...Q: Obviously you are concentrating on establishing the foundations for the seven current franchises. But how have the open trials and other announcements helped build interest in other markets?

DC: The momentum continues to build. We have 18 different communities and regions that are reaching out to us now about building a Canadian Premier League team in their area. The future is pretty bright that way.

Obviously, you’ve got to go through the vetting and everything else, but it’s great to see the outpouring. In Montreal, we have five different groups that are after us to get a team in that marketplace, whether it be Quebec City or Montreal or Sherbrooke. There’s a tremendous amount of work to be done, but as we do this across the country it becomes more real. It’s one thing to be out talking about identities for clubs and be in the markets and announce the league, but when you’re actually out doing something and creating rosters then it becomes tangible....

^^^interesting to note that was from October 19th last year, so the five different groups in Montreal thing isn't new. Sounds like a misquote and that he really meant all of Quebec, when you read that again.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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17 hours ago, Ansem said:

OMG, can we stop with the "Canadian self defeating atttitude"?

No CPL won't be an 8 team league after a split in half. How many times can CPL say 16 teams THEN we start D2?

Can someone find me 1 article or official quote talking about splitting the league in half? yeah I didn't think so

Sorry but it would be unbelievably stupid to build up to 16 and then split it in half after all those years. That's a very underwhelming move that would crush the league's momentum. 

Most importantly, no investors in their right minds would invest in such a risky venture. Pro/Rel is a tough sell as it is and now you're telling them that half of them will be cut...

I assumed when the CPL talks of instituting pro-rel at 16 teams, they would split those 16 teams. So are you saying they would institute pro-rel with the teams following? Who would those handful of new teams play against for the first few years? Div 2 supporters would probably get bored facing off against the same teams 6-7 times per season. 

If an even split is so unappealing to you, then how would you split so there are enough teams in Div 2? You can't have a 10-team Div 1 and a 6-team Div 2. The only other option I can see would be to focus on building up Div 3 to a CHL-style structure with L1O, PLSQ, and western counterpart, then groom some of those teams to be ready for the jump to a regional Div 2. After some suitable preparation time,  relegate some of the clubs from Div 1 and promote the groomed Div 3 teams to make an initial Div 2. 

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On 4/11/2019 at 7:08 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Anywhere between 14-18 has been mentioned recently by David Clanachan and Paul Beirne for how far they can go in numbers terms with a single tier.

If you have something like Victoria, Fraser Valley, Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Windsor, London, K/W, Hamilton, St Catherines, Mississauga, York, Durham, Ottawa, Laval, Quebec, Halifax, there's not much left at that point in terms of 200k + markets that couldn't be catered to by simply going to 20.

Think the pro/rel stuff is marketing spin as much as anything else, because that's a project that would probably take a generation to reach fruition, even if things go very well in all seven markets in season one rather than the mixed bag of success stories and strugglers that is more likely to happen.

Just hearing St. Catharines even as a slim possibility gets me giddy

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21 hours ago, Initial B said:

ted, your comment about 16 teams got me to thinking about talent dilution. I agree that 16 teams would probably be ideal, but I'm not sure how much talent Canada has at this point not just in players, but in coaches...

Yeah, not really on the topic i was addressing. He said he wanted an 8-team D1 AND an 8-team D2. That still requires 16 coaching staffs and players. 

And NO ONE is talking about 16 teams next year - at least no one with any sense. I'd say we can grow by an average of about 1.5 teams per year maximum so it would be at least 2024 or 2025 before I could see us at 16 teams. That gives us some time to develop players and coaching staff. 

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Can the league handle 3 expansion teams in the league 2 years though ? Like talent wise that’s 18 Canadians... 9 of them can be U-21 so I guess that’s easy.  But those are also minimums. Hopefully the caliber is actually high than USL.

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35 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

I'd prefer it if they limited it to 1 expansion team per year. That's still a heavy growth rate for any league.

Even numbers would be more attractive for fans, though clearly, the more teams we have, the less an odd number matters. 

But I think the key is readiness. If a team is in a situation close to Winnipeg or Hamilton in terms of a stadium, that is a huge step. If the ownership group has deep pockets and can prove they can move effectively on all fronts, another plus. If the proposed club has a parallel supporters group, not set up by them but spontaneous and enthusiastic, another plus.

My view is that all groups were speculating this first year, on the basis of a dream. A good part of what we have started as shots in the dark. From now on, all teams will have a much clearer path, with a lot of the groundwork for accurate financial metrics done for them. They will walk into existing fan knowledge, overall and specific league  and club experience, media deals, digital support.

So I say we have to ask a bit more from them: a lot more. And I am not talking about franchise fees, though I do believe that something has to be paid into the pot to benefit the general good, as part of the league's seed money (this has to be handled right, as asking too much, when the value of the next 5-7 teams is very high for the benefit of all, would be rash and counterproductive).

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3 hours ago, Initial B said:

I assumed when the CPL talks of instituting pro-rel at 16 teams, they would split those 16 teams. So are you saying they would institute pro-rel with the teams following? Who would those handful of new teams play against for the first few years? Div 2 supporters would probably get bored facing off against the same teams 6-7 times per season. 

If an even split is so unappealing to you, then how would you split so there are enough teams in Div 2? You can't have a 10-team Div 1 and a 6-team Div 2. The only other option I can see would be to focus on building up Div 3 to a CHL-style structure with L1O, PLSQ, and western counterpart, then groom some of those teams to be ready for the jump to a regional Div 2. After some suitable preparation time,  relegate some of the clubs from Div 1 and promote the groomed Div 3 teams to make an initial Div 2. 

Why not use existing lower divisions as a regional series of div 2s?

In other words, you could have a 16 club Div 1 as has been discussed, and at that point (probably ten years from now) treat L1O, the Quebec League, and some similarly situated Western league together as Div 2. The winners of each face off in some kind of playoff, and the absolute D2 champion gets a playoff game against the lowest placed club in the CPL. That would be dramatic and entertaining as hell. 

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2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Can the league handle 3 expansion teams in the league 2 years though ? Like talent wise that’s 18 Canadians... 9 of them can be U-21 so I guess that’s easy.  But those are also minimums. Hopefully the caliber is actually high than USL.

Yes easily. There could have been 10 teams to start this year but Ottawa went mental and a couple of other bids didn't come together in time.

I could see Montreal and/or Quebec and one other team (Saskatoon?) enter for 2020. Ottawa and one other team (Surrey?) could be aboard in 2021.  Easily anywhere from 3-5 teams in two years.
 

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4 hours ago, Initial B said:

they would split those 16 teams. So are you saying they would institute pro-rel with the teams following? 

Yes

4 hours ago, Initial B said:

Who would those handful of new teams play against for the first few years? Div 2 supporters would probably get bored facing off against the same teams 6-7 times per season. 

The timing is important here. 2026 is the world cup and logically launching such league right after is the best timing. Soccer will be at its highest level by then. You're thinking in terms of today...no one disagree that a D2 pre 2026 would work.

Also, there's really no rush. CPL can just carry one until they get enough bids to launch a proper 8 team league.

How do you know the supporters would get bored? They would be playing in both Canadian Championship and fighting for promotion. Places like Kingston or Sherbrooke would surely take that over nothing...

4 hours ago, Initial B said:

If an even split is so unappealing to you, then how would you split so there are enough teams in Div 2?

No splits. CPL could just announce its intend to launch the 2nd tier and now accepting bids.

4 hours ago, Initial B said:

You can't have a 10-team Div 1 and a 6-team Div 2. The only other option I can see would be to focus on building up Div 3 to a CHL-style structure with L1O, PLSQ, and western counterpart, then groom some of those teams to be ready for the jump to a regional Div 2. After some suitable preparation time,  relegate some of the clubs from Div 1 and promote the groomed Div 3 teams to make an initial Div 2. 

It's entirely possible that some D3 teams could upgrade to D2 by finding new investors to fund infrastructure and pay for the higher costs...sure.

I just don't get this split idea of yours. Nowhere did the league ever expressed wanting to do that. They believe they can grow to 16 and then launch a D2. I don't see that being unrealistic after the world cup.

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2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Can the league handle 3 expansion teams in the league 2 years though ? Like talent wise that’s 18 Canadians... 9 of them can be U-21 so I guess that’s easy.  But those are also minimums. Hopefully the caliber is actually high than USL.

Given there are about 90 Canadian players playing pro in USSF sanctioned leagues and more playing overseas, it is not the cream of the crop that are being signed by CanPL teams. Since a lot of the recruiting appears to be reasonably local, there are probably a lot of players of a comparable standard in cities like Montreal and Vancouver that have been steering clear because there is no team local to them at the moment. If this level of soccer can sustain high enough crowds, putting a few more teams together shouldn't be all that challenging in lower mainland BC and the Windsor-Quebec corridor. What might be more problematic is the smaller more remote markets that need to draw players in from elsewhere in Canada, if there start to be too many of them.

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3 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Can the league handle 3 expansion teams in the league 2 years though ? Like talent wise that’s 18 Canadians... 9 of them can be U-21 so I guess that’s easy.  But those are also minimums. Hopefully the caliber is actually high than USL.

Like BBTB says, we arent even really dipping into the market of CDN playing in NA and overseas.  If the league proves itself and stays afloat after 1 year, you'll see some more migration as some worries about the league will be put to rest.  And hopefully guys like Aleman, Dover, Gee, Mcleod, Didic (USL types) will help fill out any expansion teams.  ANd if there is a little more money for wages in year 2 we should see some sort of uptick in quality on the field.  Either by attracting the better CDN players still out there or paying for better imports.

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Also, there will still be the "wait and see" approach for a lot of oversea guys and those in USSF leagues like BBTB said, who Inthink want to see CPL having 1 or 2 seasons under it's belt before switching.

It's undeniable that the CONCACAF league berth attached to the trophy is a major plus, especially when we'll be watching CPL for the 1st time playing in the tournament.

The more CPL can line up successful seasons and keep growing with good CL performances, the more guys will be willing to let their contract expire to come home.

For year one, seems that CPL clubs were unwilling to pay transfer fees. Once clubs will be willing to do that, I expect more quality and experienced guys being bought to come home.

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On 4/10/2019 at 3:25 PM, top cheese said:

Newfoundland doesn’t have the capacity to have a stable professional franchise! ...

On the bright side St John's seems to be doing OK in the NBLC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_NBL_Canada_season#Attendance

and I think that's the same group that have been reported to be interested in CanPL in ownership terms.

 

 

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According to this, Jacques Tanguay was approached by a Montreal businessman about a CPL team in Quebec City. He said that whoever comes here needs to not care about balance sheets and be prepare to lose money for 10 years...and also needs to be seriously in for the long term. 

He said gaining Quebec City is a long term project and it will take time to get their loyalty and grow...

He said he offered Joey Saputo his help if he wanted to bring a reserve team to Quebec City...

*I don't think that he and the journalist are aware that CSA wouldn't approve such a move 

 

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3 hours ago, Ansem said:

According to this, Jacques Tanguay was approached by a Montreal businessman about a CPL team in Quebec City. He said that whoever comes here needs to not care about balance sheets and be prepare to lose money for 10 years...and also needs to be seriously in for the long term. 

He said gaining Quebec City is a long term project and it will take time to get their loyalty and grow...

He said he offered Joey Saputo his help if he wanted to bring a reserve team to Quebec City...

*I don't think that he and the journalist are aware that CSA wouldn't approve such a move 

 

Ansem my French isn’t the best but does he offer Peps as venue?

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3 hours ago, Ansem said:

According to this, Jacques Tanguay was approached by a Montreal businessman about a CPL team in Quebec City. He said that whoever comes here needs to not care about balance sheets and be prepare to lose money for 10 years...and also needs to be seriously in for the long term. 

He said gaining Quebec City is a long term project and it will take time to get their loyalty and grow...

He said he offered Joey Saputo his help if he wanted to bring a reserve team to Quebec City...

*I don't think that he and the journalist are aware that CSA wouldn't approve such a move 

 

 

2 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Ansem my French isn’t the best but does he offer Peps as venue?

“Et selon lui, le stade du Peps serait parfait pour ce type de projet.”

Or is he just saying Peps would be a great place? I’m unfamiliar with the control of the stadium.

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6 hours ago, Ansem said:

According to this, Jacques Tanguay was approached by a Montreal businessman about a CPL team in Quebec City. He said that whoever comes here needs to not care about balance sheets and be prepare to lose money for 10 years...and also needs to be seriously in for the long term. 

He said gaining Quebec City is a long term project and it will take time to get their loyalty and grow...

He said he offered Joey Saputo his help if he wanted to bring a reserve team to Quebec City...

*I don't think that he and the journalist are aware that CSA wouldn't approve such a move 

Filosa is a Saputo shill, and his only function in this tweet is to try to keep CPL as far away from Joey as possible. A few months ago he did a whole show on how there was zero possibility of a CPL team anywhere near Montreal. 
 
As I have posted before, this defensiveness we get from Impact does not seem to be very different from the narrow-minded territoriality that exists from Whitecaps. But it is mostly behind the scenes. 
 
At some point (like starting a few months ago), CPL has to move ahead, and just ignore Saputo and the Impact. Who have their reserve side in Ottawa if they want it.

 

 

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On 4/18/2019 at 11:28 PM, BuzzAndSting said:

 

“Et selon lui, le stade du Peps serait parfait pour ce type de projet.”

Or is he just saying Peps would be a great place? I’m unfamiliar with the control of the stadium.

My translation: According to him, the Peps stadium would be perfect for this type of project.

Sounds like he's just saying it would be a great place. (i.e. in theory)

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https://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/bunbury-2021-is-more-realistic-1.1298455

Important points/quotes:

  • "This will happen" - very assuring words
  • There will also be a franchise in Quebec City
  • Plans to Open up a developmental program in Montreal that "will be second to none"
  • Spoke with commissioner Clanachan and said, wants to get things right even if it means 2021. 2020 still on the table
  • Laval is the first location, but others are being assessed 
  • Believes the league will be important, "great start just need to keep the momentum going; not let the "excitement die off"

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Viable stadium solutions can take time when you are dealing with other people's land and/or stadium, so that probably means 2021 at the earliest barring a miracle. Nothing wrong with that. I have never quite understood why Complexe Sportif Claude Robillard isn't a possibility in a Montreal context and Swangard wasn't a possibility for a Fraser valley team, but neither seems to be part of the equation where CanPL is concerned or we would probably already be seeing teams playing there.

5 hours ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

Valour coach Rob Gale, mentioned in an interview today that CPL is talking to 22 different prospective expansion owners.

Which doesn't necessarily contradict there being 18 different communities involved. Hopefully Duane Rollins claiming that Saint John and Pickering are featuring prominently on the radar screen at the moment will end the posts about some markets being kept for a "CanPL2".

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5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

I have never quite understood why Complexe Sportif Claude Robillard isn't a possibility in a Montreal context and Swangard wasn't a possibility for a Fraser valley team, but neither seems to be part of the equation where CanPL is concerned or we would probably already be seeing teams playing there.

Swangard isn't in the Fraser Valley, that's why.

(Okay, addressing what you probably actually meant: the city of Burnaby owns Swangard and doesn't really like pro teams in it. There'd never be Westhills-like upgrades, and the stadium gets enough community and school use outside of the summer that a professional team would have a lot of trouble getting premium kickoff times. Which, in a city owned by the community for the community, is fair enough.)

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