Initial B Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 I get the feeling that CPL is going to go pro-rel as soon as they hit 16 teams. At that point, any new teams would enter at Div 2 (which would keep franchise fees low) and they could fill out the lower division to the point where they could add some teams to Div 1 and eventually cap Div 2 at a certain number of teams, then institute pro-rel between Div 2 and the regional Div 3 leagues like L1O and LPSQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Think what is implied by the 16 figure on pro-rel is more that it's the minimum number for having two sensible looking divisions of 8 each and that they might go from 14 to 8-8 at that point in numbers terms. Despite all the optimistic rhetoric that's probably viewed as being way off in the future, because of the issue of finding suitable stadiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impactsupporter Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 On 2/25/2019 at 2:38 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said: The original CSL made a similar decision to exclude what would probably have been stable franchises by being determined to exclude ethnic team names. If the pre-existing Toronto Italia (previous pro level history in the ECPSL) and Toronto Croatia (previous pro level history in the NASL and CPSL) NSL franchises had been on board as they wanted to be rather than the North York Rockets it's far from impossible that the CSL could have found a way to make it through the recession of the early 90s by having a solid core of franchises in the Quebec-Windsor corridor plus Winnipeg and Vancouver and lived to fight another day when soccer in North America started to grow stronger again after the 1994 World Cup. Not saying history has to repeat itself but it definitely would be good to see more of a spirit of inclusive compromise this time around, because it's absence and the squabbling over Ottawa definitely provides a feeling of deja vu. Australia banned ethnic names from their teams, but what if you could merge all the various ethnic teams in the unsanctioned CSL (and definitely abolish the CSL once and for all) and come up with an "Inter-Toronto" team? Just something to think about. 3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Think what is implied by the 16 figure on pro-rel is more that it's the minimum number for having two sensible looking divisions of 8 each and that they might go from 14 to 8-8 at that point in numbers terms. Despite all the optimistic rhetoric that's probably viewed as being way off in the future, because of the issue of finding suitable stadiums. Again using Australia, you might find this article or opinion piece interesting: https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/05/17/leagues-promotion-relegation-solution-needs-unique-australia/ The issue here in Canada is not just about suitable stadiums, but travel costs especially for teams in medium and small sized towns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Never mind trying to find mid-sized markets, I think the two biggest issues with the growth of the CPL is finding suitable stadiums and cost of travel. Generally any park/stadium that is out there which could be expanded is owned by a municipality/university and even then, it'll be lucky to hold 1,000 people and can't be expanded without significant investment by the taxpayer or a CPL owner. And then there's travel costs: it's often much cheaper to fly to Florida from Ontario/Quebec than from Ontario/Quebec to Saskatchewan. Ottawafan74 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KW519 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 32 minutes ago, JamboAl said: Never mind trying to find mid-sized markets, I think the two biggest issues with the growth of the CPL is finding suitable stadiums and cost of travel. Generally any park/stadium that is out there which could be expanded is owned by a municipality/university and even then, it'll be lucky to hold 1,000 people and can't be expanded without significant investment by the taxpayer or a CPL owner. And then there's travel costs: it's often much cheaper to fly to Florida from Ontario/Quebec than from Ontario/Quebec to Saskatchewan. Toronto to Miami is also an hour and a half shorter flight. I think it depends on the city. I find flights from Toronto to Edmonton and Vancouver cheaper than what I pay to fly to Regina. Will be looking at approximately 125k/yr with 22 players and staff flying at $400 on average per ticket without any airline deal in place. Not make or break for me when you consider a club can generate almost all of that with a sold out 6k capacity at $17 a ticket on average Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 So move the city of Saskatoon to Florida? I'm game as long as it stays part of Canada. JamboAl and ted 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, JamboAl said: Never mind trying to find mid-sized markets, I think the two biggest issues with the growth of the CPL is finding suitable stadiums and cost of travel. Generally any park/stadium that is out there which could be expanded is owned by a municipality/university and even then, it'll be lucky to hold 1,000 people and can't be expanded without significant investment by the taxpayer or a CPL owner. And then there's travel costs: it's often much cheaper to fly to Florida from Ontario/Quebec than from Ontario/Quebec to Saskatchewan. While we don't have an airline yet as a sponsor, we do have significant sponsorship and some of that may be tagged for travel expenses. After some of the recent corporate sponsorship announcements, not sure travel will be the historic stumbling block it once was, when teams were solely reliant on ticket revenue for survival. JamboAl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stouffvillain Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 hours ago, JamboAl said: Never mind trying to find mid-sized markets, I think the two biggest issues with the growth of the CPL is finding suitable stadiums and cost of travel. Generally any park/stadium that is out there which could be expanded is owned by a municipality/university and even then, it'll be lucky to hold 1,000 people and can't be expanded without significant investment by the taxpayer or a CPL owner. And then there's travel costs: it's often much cheaper to fly to Florida from Ontario/Quebec than from Ontario/Quebec to Saskatchewan. You aren't wrong. I'm sure that the league and potential owners are aware of this and work travel costs look at it from every angle before buying into the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Serie_AHH said: You aren't wrong. I'm sure that the league and potential owners are aware of this and work travel costs look at it from every angle before buying into the market. I’m sure they are as a sustainable business model will need to address this properly. Pacific FC and HFX Wanderers has to have thought this through before they committed to the league. Stouffvillain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 6 hours ago, JamboAl said: And then there's travel costs: it's often much cheaper to fly to Florida from Ontario/Quebec than from Ontario/Quebec to Saskatchewan. 1 This pisses me off about Airlines in Canada. How the hell am I suppose to experience the rest of Canada when its substantiall cheaper to fly down south to warmer pastures. Chad_Impact, Lofty, deschamp86 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryker911 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jahinho Guerro said: This pisses me off about Airlines in Canada. How the hell am I suppose to experience the rest of Canada when its substantiall cheaper to fly down south to warmer pastures. 100%. A recently booked trip from Toronto to Sault is more expensive than a round trip from Toronto to Rome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viruk42 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 20 hours ago, Winnipeg Fury said: While we don't have an airline yet as a sponsor, we do have significant sponsorship and some of that may be tagged for travel expenses. After some of the recent corporate sponsorship announcements, not sure travel will be the historic stumbling block it once was, when teams were solely reliant on ticket revenue for survival. So what you're saying is the teams are going to travel from city to city in VW Westfalias? ? Paul Beirne's dream come true! ted and Winnipeg Fury 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 22 hours ago, Winnipeg Fury said: While we don't have an airline yet as a sponsor, we do have significant sponsorship and some of that may be tagged for travel expenses. After some of the recent corporate sponsorship announcements, not sure travel will be the historic stumbling block it once was, when teams were solely reliant on ticket revenue for survival. I think we do have an airline set up. The first reason is this: the entire league is going to fly together to Santa Domingo for a shared preseason stage in April. That makes it sound like they have some sort of travel deal in place. Of course it might be a one-off. But I am not sure they'd do that. Next, they had to look at flights, and even prebook, before they put out the schedule. I mean, they absolutely had to look at certain routes on certain dates, for 26-28 people a shot. They could not risk setting out the schedule without that (especially tougher flights like Victoria, especially, or Halifax). johnyb and Winnipeg Fury 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Has to be something in place. Hard to imagine it otherwise at this point. Is it with a single carrier or multiple, how rich a deal/sponsorship who knows but I expect we'll find out over the next month or two. Really getting real now. Winnipeg Fury and johnyb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1996 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 20 hours ago, Stryker911 said: 100%. A recently booked trip from Toronto to Sault is more expensive than a round trip from Toronto to Rome. Really that’s insane ! ted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Do we know if there are legitimate talks or is this Bill Manning shitting on the league again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 22 minutes ago, Alex D said: Do we know if there are legitimate talks or is this Bill Manning shitting on the league again? It's nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/27/2019 at 5:01 PM, Stryker911 said: 100%. A recently booked trip from Toronto to Sault is more expensive than a round trip from Toronto to Rome. My Dad flew down last weekend to Hamilton from the Soo. Flew down on AC and back home on Porter. The Soo is a tricky place to fly too. I can fly Hamilton to Halifax or Victoria cheaper than Toronto to the Soo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtlsab Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/25/2019 at 5:39 PM, Keegan said: The best scenario for Canadian soccer and everyone involved is if a CPL2 is created and the 3 MLS teams can have B squads that are unable to promote. Anything else is bad business, for CPL at least. I couldn't say anything better! DrummingInMySleep and toontownman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 14 hours ago, mtlsab said: I couldn't say anything better! I used to think that as well but now I'm thinking with the proper controls in place it might not be a bad thing. Controls like: - Max 4/5 loanees per team - No more than 2 loanees per team - Players must be sold for fair market value - Contracts cannot be terminated so players can resign with Clubs owned by the same organization - Team must have it's own youth academy - Team must have its own President and keep all dealings at arms length. This would stifle movement of players enough to prevent it from seeming minor league. Additionally, the team would have to be in a different market, have unique branding, and have to invest or risk losing fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 32 minutes ago, zen said: I used to think that as well but now I'm thinking with the proper controls in place it might not be a bad thing. Controls like: - Max 4/5 loanees per team (I assume this means per MLS team) - No more than 2 loanees per team (I assume this means per CPL team) - Players must be sold for fair market value - Contracts cannot be terminated so players can resign with Clubs owned by the same organization - Team must have it's own youth academy - Team must have its own President and keep all dealings at arms length. This would stifle movement of players enough to prevent it from seeming minor league. Additionally, the team would have to be in a different market, have unique branding, and have to invest or risk losing fans. When I defend the idea of MLSE (or whatever that firewalled entity looks like) owning a CPL team, these are exactly the kinds of safeguards I envision the league requiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 3 hours ago, dyslexic nam said: When I defend the idea of MLSE (or whatever that firewalled entity looks like) owning a CPL team, these are exactly the kinds of safeguards I envision the league requiring. I mean that each CPL team is allowed to take on only 4/5 loanees. Players are an asset and CPL teams should own their own talent. And I mean, CPL teams can't pick take on more than 2 loanees from the same team, MLS or otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 When you start designing rules aimed at one specific league... you don't get more "B" league than that. If that's the only way to allow an MLS teams to own a CPL team, it's best that you simply deny them altogether. mtlsab, DrummingInMySleep, Bbeto and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Ansem said: When you start designing rules aimed at one specific league... you don't get more "B" league than that. If that's the only way to allow an MLS teams to own a CPL team, it's best that you simply deny them altogether. That's why the rules I suggested were very general and not at all specific to MLS. The rules would prevent Chelsea to do with a CPL team what they currently do at Vitesse, hypothetically speaking lool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtlsab Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Here is my new article about CPL expansion, Please read and share:https://culturesoccer.com/2019/03/03/quelles-prochaines-expansions-en-canpl/ MtlMario, rob.notenboom, Raven and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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