CPL new teams speculation

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

7 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

Really curious as to what city could join at this point to be ready in time. I'd have to think having access to a stadium would be no.1 criteria at this point.

Anyone who has followed Paul Beirne's MO closely over the years will have noted that the phrasing doesn't actually make it clear that that the few more announcements are about new franchises even if that's the inference some/many/most people will make. Think St John's, Moncton, Montreal (Claude Robilliard) and Kitchener-Waterloo might be technically doable on the timeline available with the latter being the least likely to turn into a fiasco.

[mpg_29]

5 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Anyone who has followed Paul Beirne's MO closely over the years will have noted that the phrasing doesn't actually make it clear that that the few more announcements are about new franchises even if that's the inference some/many/most people will make. Think St John's, Moncton, Montreal (Claude Robilliard) and Kitchener-Waterloo might be technically doable on the timeline available with the latter being the least likely to turn into a fiasco.

Yeah well I mean I read that statement as two separate things: 

1. The league is trying to add an 8th team

2. We have some announcments over the next couple of weeks.

Edited September 15, 2018 by mpg_29

[mlsintoronto]

On 9/14/2018 at 1:19 PM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Latest from Paul Beirne:

https://underthecoshblog.com/2018/09/14/showcase-and-growth-the-canadian-premier-leagues-aspirations/

The league is working hard to add another franchise in order to start a coast-to-coast league with eight clubs, and we “should expect a few more announcements in the coming weeks”, adds Beirne, with excitement.

 

When I replied to his email in August, I wasn't aware that I was projecting "excitement" ?LOL

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Thanks for the clarification.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, mpg_29 said:

If the league starts in late April/early May there isn't much of a window left for building. I'm not even sure how teams like Victoria are doing it. Though Victoria probably isn't as affected by winter construction season as most other places in Canada...

Which is why I think any team that joins for 2019 at this point would need to have access to something that already exists or requires very little work...

Victoria is not really building, it is refitting, and adding stands. And then, apparently, fixing up the area around the stadium to add to its quality. Then link from parking areas to the stadium entrances.

Then, an important detail if they really do follow through on it: replace field turf with grass (I wonder if they can take a field pitch and put it somewhere else, or sell it)

[CDNFootballer]

On 9/15/2018 at 10:42 AM, mpg_29 said:

Really curious as to what city could join at this point to be ready in time. I'd have to think having access to a stadium would be no.1 criteria at this point.

Don't think it would happen for a Metro Vancouver Surrey club for 2019 but Langley's McCloud Stadium could be used initially by adding a second grandstand like FC Edmonton's Clarke Stadium had added by the Fath's. There's room for it to be brought up to 5K.

[Blindside16]

Just based on optics, I think the 8th team will be from somewhere Ontario eastward.  With there being 5 "Western" teams  I can't see them adding team out West until 2020 or 2021, whenever the next expansion would be.  My guess is that the front runners are Laval or Quebec city.  I would give Laval the edge slightly because of the proximity to Montreal and the fanbase that Impact have helped create.  Quebec city though can drop a team right into Laval University as either a great temporary home or if they want to invest a bit, a permanent one.  The rest I would see them needing at least a year, probably 2 to properly get off the ground.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Think "Laval" is the easier one to do. There is a suitably-sized municipally owned stadium with grass an easy walking distance from the Metro that is only three stops away from being in Laval in a York Stadium for York 9 sort of way.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.554119,-73.636631,359m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

The problem in Quebec City is that the stadium you mention has permanently marked fieldturf and it's unclear whether the Rouge et Or would welcome a tenant.

Edited September 17, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Blackdude]

27 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Think "Laval" is the easier one to do. There is a suitably-sized municipally owned stadium with grass an easy walking distance from the Metro that is only three stops away from being in Laval in a York Stadium for York 9 sort of way.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.554119,-73.636631,359m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

The problem in Quebec City is that the stadium you mention has permanently marked fieldturf and it's unclear whether the Rouge et Or would welcome a tenant.

Why call it Laval if it's not in Laval?  Calling a team Laval when it's in Ahuntsic makes zero sense. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

There's a reason why I put Laval in quotes and the reason would be to start where there is an available stadium relatively nearby before moving to a pop-up or modular stadium in Laval later if that were to be the target market of choice.

Edited September 17, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[DrFitzpatrick]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 8:29 AM, xcalibre said:

in fantasy land if CanPL was good enough to attract interest from border teams in places like Bellingham (played in the PCSL), Detroit (owners who may outgrow NPSL), Saint Pierre y Miquelon (maybe kidding on that one), would most people be against it full-stop? Think Vegas in the CFL for that weird season. I can't imagine they'd agree to a minimum quota of Canadians on their roster so will likely be a non-starter.

Are you referring to the Las Vegas Posse?  LOL

[DrFitzpatrick]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 8:40 AM, dyslexic nam said:

No interest whatsoever for me.  It would open the door to an ever increasing American presence in the league (see NHL for how that story ends), it would dilute the identity of the league, and it would mitigate one of the major upsides - opponents that fans can get excited about.  Not to mention the fact that it would put USL in an unnecessarily adversarial position.

Don't forget, when the CFL did it, the US teams used US Law to their advantage and didn't have to have the Canadian roster requirements.

[RickC]

Yes, and Baltimore won one Grey Cup and almost a second. The CFL was desperate at the time, and although US expansion is thought of as a failure, it certainly did help the Canadian CFL teams survive. 

[BillyBob]

I remember Saskatchewan was an early target.

But I've read that RoughRiders fanbase is INSANE.

Does that mean they should just focus on Saskatchewan, at least to start off with?

Saska aside, I'd say the only imperative targets would be Quebec City, Ottawa and perhaps Moncton.

[xcalibre]

I'd like to see London or (less likely) Windsor in there. The drive to Hamilton or York isn't really feasible for more than a few diehards.  As local politicians love to point out, Ontario doesn't stop at the Grand River or in Oxford County

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

They think soccer stops at the Escarpment was how a former president of EMSA (London's district association) used to describe the OSA. The main problem for London doing this is that TD Waterhouse was deliberately designed by the Western Mustangs to exclude pro soccer as a viable possibility despite the best efforts of the late Jim Kernaghan in the Free Press, the baseball community goes crazy if anyone suggests another sport sharing Labbatt Park with them and the various ethnic social club fields that are enclosed with bleachers and floodlights for use in local WOSL premier games are all a bit too small and/or difficult to access to do a popup with 5000 seats minimum.

[youllneverwalkalone]

It's too bad people still like baseball in Canada. Labatt in London, Telus in Edmonton and Shaw in Winnipeg would all be amazing venues if converted a-la Portland.

[Rocket Robin]

Maybe a City of Toronto team can be back in the mix.  

At the meeting of TFC supporters organized by MLSE and held before the Toronto vs Vancouver game today after the fans were dispersing and I was talking to  Bill Manning, he said TFC II are going to play at the BMO Training Ground (that's up in Downsview where L1O TFC III and its USSDA successor plays) next year in a soon to be constructed 1200 seat stadium.  

They seem to be disappointed at the high rent they pay for Lamport (so much for me thinking they owned it or had a special arrangement).  

That sounds like another reason they've dropped from the  USL new Premier to the 1st Division as the stadium standards aren't so high.  All those hipsters who wanted TFC II downtown instead of at Ontario Soccer Centre and saw their crowds plummet from 700 to 1000 to last night's season finale against Louisville City with uslsoccer.com stats of 128. (one hundred twenty eight) and I'd say at least 40 were cheering the visitors--not all relatives of Pickering's own Greg Ranjatsingh.

Not that I'd recommend it...read that attendance figure again to watch a bunch of Canadians running around. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Maybe they are more relaxed about CanPL now that it appears to be emerging as a relatively low budget and small market league and don't see it as a threat? Playing on grass is probably seen as a plus as well.

[Ansem]

That's my speculation but this interview today is quite telling about the financial state of Montreal Impact in MLS

Montreal seems to be in financial trouble 

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2018/10/12/taxes-foncieres-limpact-victime-dune-injustice-selon-joey-saputo

Disappointment in financial results since joining MLS

I don't think Montreal and Vancouver are viable in MLS 3.0. He's now asking for help with taxes at the municipal level... 

He might end up seeing CPL more viable down the road than keep bleeding money if there's a path to profitability in CPL

Edited October 12, 2018 by Ansem

[baulderdash77]

I’m pretty mixed on Montreal and Vancouver moving to CanPL for these reasons to be honest.

If they were moving because the CanPL was growing up then that would be great.  If they’re moving because it’s unprofitable to be in MLS then it’s not great.

However if they did move, in the long run this locks up a team in 2 more very large markets as well as bring a new level of credibility and strength to the league.

 We will have to see.  Obviously not in 2019 but maybe in 2020 or 2021.

[yellowsweatygorilla]

Any idea what wages Montreal were paying in the old NASL (ie. before the MLS move)?

[Ansem]

10 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

I’m pretty mixed on Montreal and Vancouver moving to CanPL for these reasons to be honest.

If they were moving because the CanPL was growing up then that would be great.  If they’re moving because it’s unprofitable to be in MLS then it’s not great.

However if they did move, in the long run this locks up a team in 2 more very large markets as well as bring a new level of credibility and strength to the league.

 We will have to see.  Obviously not in 2019 but maybe in 2020 or 2021.

To be fair, it's not that they can't survive in MLS but those 2 can forget about Championships and easily making the playoffs in MLS 3.0. How is that going to attract fans when the team is having mediocre season one after the other? In Montreal's case, if MLB comes back, they are screwed.

In CPL they could better control their costs while ironically draw more fans thanks to rivalries, becoming dynasty clubs by being the top clubs annually, selling more merchandise. Winning sells.

A scenario like that would still be post 2026 World Cup for me.

[dyslexic nam]

Am I a terrible person for wishing for the kind of conditions that would see these teams migrate to CPL?  Probably, but I think I stand by it.  The addition of those two major markets to CPL would be massive.  

[Ansem]

25 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Am I a terrible person for wishing for the kind of conditions that would see these teams migrate to CPL?  Probably, but I think I stand by it.  The addition of those two major markets to CPL would be massive.  

Credible journalists are talking about it

Short story... with US cities lining up to get in and willing to pay crazy expansion fees and build stadiums...MLS could easily pressure MTL to exit or do it themselves.

Montreal only paid $35M to get in and all those US cities in big US media markets are willing to pay hundreds of millions.

Same could happen to Vancouver if their fan deserts them

*I want us to get our 3 clubs back. That makes me Lucifer

Comparé Miami To Montréal 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Ansem