CPL new teams speculation

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

6 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Yes. That is not inconceivable. 

...and has already happened in the not so distant past (for some of us at least) when TSN ditched CSL coverage by the 1992 season and went as far as destroying the entire video tape vault of games they had covered.

Take away TFC and whatever is left in the GTA calling itself pro soccer could easily still be drawing York United crowd numbers in the aftermath with pretty much only Rocket Robin providing a match report. Interest in domestic pro soccer such as it is from the large portion of corporate Canada that is Toronto based could easily completely cool off again.

Some people clearly don't understand or have forgotten how fragile the whole deck of cards potentially is. It's Canada. The presence of soccer is still resented by plenty of influential people who want wall-to-wall NHL, CFL/NFL and MLB coverage and nothing else followed by uppity recent immigrants who won't assimilate properly to ever intrude on that.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[gigi riva]

I always thought York 9 needs to relocate to Oakville or a KW and just re brand themselves 

[Ansem]

22 minutes ago, gigi riva said:

I always thought York 9 needs to relocate to Oakville or a KW and just re brand themselves 

I think they'll be more than fine at Woodbine.

[gigi riva]

4 hours ago, Ansem said:

I think they'll be more than fine at Woodbine.

i hope you are right

[JamboAl]

7 hours ago, Ansem said:

I think they'll be more than fine at Woodbine.

The question is whether they will survive to see that day (if it happens).

[Kingston]

41 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

The question is whether they will survive to see that day (if it happens).

If the failed entirely it would not be hard to start a new team at Woodbine.  It's not like there's a storied history for the York club that needs to be carried on.

Of course, whether it's York or a new team at Woodbine or elsewhere, I still think they'll face the same second-tier sports in the GTA problem that York faces now.  But that's a different issue.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, Kingston said:

If the failed entirely it would not be hard to start a new team at Woodbine...

Finding an investor would be the main hurdle at that point. There's a good chance that the Baldassarra's interest in any real estate deal at Woodbine extends well beyond the stadium.  The main problem with the whole Woodbine plan is that the CSA are interested in a stadium in Vaughan instead:

and didn't even respond to the Woodbine proposal:

 

[Ansem]

A stadium at Woodbine and a national training facility in Vaughan aren't mutually exclusive.

The Baldassara always planned for a stadium and York Lions was always a temporary venue...looks like they settled for Woodbine instead of Vaughan which is a change of direction from the York 9 regime who viewed themselves as a York Region team. McNab positioned the brand and club to be a Toronto club so staying in the city is in line with that.

I can also see why the CSA would prefer the national training center in Vaughan.

Initially, it looked like both National training centre and stadium would be bundled. This would create a dangerous precedent of the CSA directly subsidizing a private CPL venue. You can imagine what would happen next. I can see the CSA getting involved in Vaughan and not wanting to be directly or indirectly funding a private venture.

With the lack of proper infrastructure in this country, why not both? But the CSA should have the courtesy to at least communicate with Woodbine. No wonder they need CSB to handle their shit - they can't even return a call...not a great way to attract business partners if that's how you do business

Edited September 9, 2022 by Ansem

[narduch]

Seems like both proposals are looking for government funding. 

 

[Ansem]

Just now, narduch said:

Seems like both proposals are looking for government funding. 

 

For sure as most professional clubs do but the CSA aren't willing to invest in both in my opinion. Where there might have been an attempt to bundle everything together, I think the CSA see both facilities separately therefore not wanting to be perceived to help finance a CPL stadium when it's complaining to be cash poor at the same time. I don't disagree with the rationale.

[spinrack]

"The City of Kelowna can confirm that it has received a multi-use development proposal that is supported by the Canadian Premier League (CPL) regarding the possibility of an expansion team coming to our city"

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/395625/Canadian-Premier-League-has-made-official-pitch-for-Kelowna-franchise-and-downtown-stadium

[K Edgar]

https://northerntribune.ca/canadian-premier-league-kelowna-expansion-award/

"A document viewed by Northern Tribune suggests Kelowna’s expansion project is much more advanced than the league has let on, with a made-for-investors CPL brochure already detailing the Kelowna expansion as official, with rights awarded to begin play alongside Saskatoon in the 2024 season."

Edited November 12, 2022 by K Edgar

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, K Edgar said:

https://northerntribune.ca/canadian-premier-league-kelowna-expansion-award/

"A document viewed by Northern Tribune suggests Kelowna’s expansion project is much more advanced than the league has let on, with a made-for-investors CPL brochure already detailing the Kelowna expansion as official, with rights awarded to begin play alongside Saskatoon in the 2024 season."

Wow this is big news

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, K Edgar said:

https://northerntribune.ca/canadian-premier-league-kelowna-expansion-award/

"A document viewed by Northern Tribune suggests Kelowna’s expansion project is much more advanced than the league has let on, with a made-for-investors CPL brochure already detailing the Kelowna expansion as official, with rights awarded to begin play alongside Saskatoon in the 2024 season."

Mark it down. Kelowna sleeper success story. Will have best away support support in the League

CFL should get in on Kelowna of they were smart

[narduch]

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Hope this is true and isn't just a way to create a feelgood vibe about the league's future growth prospects prior to quietly jettisoning FCE. 2024 seems wildly optimistic for Saskatoon and Kelowna at this point given its almost 2023 and the necessary stadium deals still need to be approved by local municipal politicians in both cases.

[K Edgar]

Kelowna would be moving well down the list of largest Canadian population centres.  (Source Wikipedia, existing CPL cities in Blue, expansion sites (including Kelowna) in Red)

Would appear the province of Quebec should be a priority!

Rank	Population Centre	Population (2021)
1	Toronto	5,647,656
2	Montreal	3,675,219
3	Vancouver	2,426,160
4	Calgary	1,305,550
5	Edmonton	1,151,635
6	Ottawa–Gatineau	1,068,821
7	Winnipeg	758,515
8	Quebec City	733,156
9	Hamilton	729,560
10	Kitchener	522,888
11	London	423,369
12	Victoria	363,222
13	Halifax	348,634
14	Oshawa	335,949
15	Windsor	306,519
16	Saskatoon	264,637
17	St. Catharines - Niagara Falls	242,460
18	Regina	224,996
19	St. John's	185,565
20	Kelowna	181,380
21	Barrie	154,676
22	Sherbrooke	151,157
23	Guelph	144,356

[Dominic94]

Just no investor for QC I’d guess.

 

so we’ve got:

 

Kelowna, Saskatoon, Vancouver and Windsor.

 

13 teams.

 

[K Edgar]

3 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

so we’ve got: Kelowna, Saskatoon, Vancouver and Windsor.

13 teams.

Yes, if:

1. all the expansion franchises work out (and the timeframe for some expansion teams is not clear)

2. none of the existing teams fold

3. another expansion (Montreal?, Quebec City?) does not happen prior to the ones listed

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

In a recent podcast interview Mark Noonan mentioned that there are eight active expansion discussions at the moment. Regina, Barrie, Peterborough, Quebec City and even the Toronto Blizzard have all been mentioned in reasonably recent times in addition to the four highlighted above so that is definitely credible.

How likely that is to turn into a 16 team league revolves entirely around the size of the expansion fee, stadium requirements and future budgetary expectations. Kelowna entering the chat as a serious possibility would tend to point towards a league with a larger geographical footprint and significantly lower budgets than something like the CFL as the ultimate end game.

That is of course if this isn't simply being used in a pay no attention to that man behind the curtain sort of way where FCE is concerned...

Edited November 13, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[EnigMattic1]

9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

In a recent podcast interview Mark Noonan mentioned that there are eight active expansion discussions at the moment. Regina, Barrie, Peterborough, Quebec City and even the Toronto Blizzard have all been mentioned in reasonably recent times in addition to the four highlighted above so that is definitely credible.

How likely that is to turn into a 16 team league revolves entirely around the size of the expansion fee, stadium requirements and future budgetary expectations. Kelowna entering the chat as a serious possibility would tend to point towards a league with a larger geographical footprint and significantly lower budgets than something like the CFL as the ultimate end game.

That is of course if this isn't simply being used in a pay no attention to that man behind the curtain sort of way where FCE is concerned...

There was mention of Toronto Blizzard joining the CPL in the announcement of the link between them and FC Bayern a few months back. That is their goal I believe.

Totally agree with the comment about the expansion fee though. I mean, the larger the MLS got, the higher the expansion fee became. I seem to remember reading something about the potential Las Vegas expansion (owned by Aston Villa's owners) and their expansion fee being at least 3x more than Atlanta's expansion fee.

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by EnigMattic1

[EnigMattic1]

9 hours ago, K Edgar said:

Yes, if:

1. all the expansion franchises work out (and the timeframe for some expansion teams is not clear)

2. none of the existing teams fold

3. another expansion (Montreal?, Quebec City?) does not happen prior to the ones listed

I get the impression that the CPL are keen to get an expansion team somewhere in Quebec and Quebec City seems likely. I still feel that a 16 team league is their end goal. To be fair, getting more teams into the league is all well and good, but you can't ignore the teams that are already there. Part of me feels that the Kelowna team will only serve to replace FC Edmonton and 2023 will be Edmonton's last season for a few years before they resurface with new owners.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

If they are talking in official league brochures about pairing up Kelowna and Saskatoon for 2024 they would probably be aiming for an even number of teams at that point. Join the dots from there...

[toontownman]

35 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

If they are talking in official league brochures about pairing up Kelowna and Saskatoon for 2024 they would probably be aiming for an even number of teams at that point. Join the dots from there...

Quebec for 2023?

[ATM]

2 hours ago, EnigMattic1 said:

There was mention of Toronto Blizzard joining the CPL in the announcement of the link between them and FC Bayern a few months back. That is their goal I believe.

Totally agree with the comment about the expansion fee though. I mean, the larger the MLS got, the higher the expansion fee became. I seem to remember reading something about the potential Las Vegas expansion (owned by Aston Villa's owners) and their expansion fee being at least 3x more than Atlanta's expansion fee.

 

I think if the Toronto Blizzard do happen, York United will need to relocate. Once again I would suggest relocate to Niagara Falls Region.

The Blizzard can play in a Hopefully renovated Lampton Stadium.