CPL new teams speculation

[Ivan]

In Part 3 of his interview with John Molinaro of TFC Republic, Julian DeGuzman says he would like to see his Simcoe County Rovers in CPL in 5 years.

[BuzzAndSting]

2 hours ago, Ivan said:

In Part 3 of his interview with John Molinaro of TFC Republic, Julian DeGuzman says he would like to see his Simcoe County Rovers in CPL in 5 years.

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[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Cblake]

Is there a realistic chance for CPL expansion in 2022 by even just one team?

[Ftduck]

1 hour ago, Cblake said:

Is there a realistic chance for CPL expansion in 2022 by even just one team?

Quebec has to get one. If not for Covid I think they already would have. Next time CPL expand I could see two teams being announced to keep the schedule balanced. This is based on nothing but my thoughts though. 

[Big_M]

many cities could have a team...two big issues or questions are stadium that meet requirements and investor...if an exemption could be provided for a couple years concerning the stadium maybe quebec could have a team next year because it doesnt seem like they currently have a stadium that meets requirements (permanent football lines....)

[Watchmen]

5 hours ago, Cblake said:

Is there a realistic chance for CPL expansion in 2022 by even just one team?

I would think they would not rush one for next year.  I think they'll want to keep the schedule balanced, so they'd rather look to time another team with Saskatoon.  And unless I've missed something, that seems more realistic for 2023.

[Cblake]

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I would think they would not rush one for next year.  I think they'll want to keep the schedule balanced, so they'd rather look to time another team with Saskatoon.  And unless I've missed something, that seems more realistic for 2023.

I agree especially with the pandemic that we have been living in, no one was going to rush into things. I think 2023 makes far more sense, hopefully the can get something in Saskatoon and in Quebec, 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

We'd probably be hearing more from David Clanachan and seeing rumours about the cities in question being visited by him and others if expansion announcements were imminent. If there's going to be a team in the province of Quebec next season the only viable option I can think of in stadium terms in terms of seat capacity and no gridiron is the Complexe Sportif Claude-Robillard in Montreal. If they were going to use that I suspect it would already have happened by now though a bit like Swangard in Vancouver.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Kent]

If I remember correctly, the Saskatchewan announcement (which to be fair, wasn't much of an announcement since we still don't have a start year or confirmed stadium or confirmed city) came without much warning. Same with Ottawa, and that was very close to the start of the season as well.

But yeah, I'd prefer a more patient approach, and if teams can come in 2's that would be ideal for scheduling. Maybe a team or two gets announced next year so they can have ticket drives during the World Cup.

[Dominic94]

I believe the rumour is 2 for next year, one in QC and one out west.

[Watchmen]

9 hours ago, Kent said:

If I remember correctly, the Saskatchewan announcement (which to be fair, wasn't much of an announcement since we still don't have a start year or confirmed stadium or confirmed city) came without much warning. Same with Ottawa, and that was very close to the start of the season as well.

But yeah, I'd prefer a more patient approach, and if teams can come in 2's that would be ideal for scheduling. Maybe a team or two gets announced next year so they can have ticket drives during the World Cup.

I thought they confirmed Saskatoon even at that time?  And the stadium location was announced, it was just a matter of ironing out the details.  The start year was a bit vague though - I think they said something like "optimistically 2022 but more realistically 2023". 

But I think that announcement is more likely what we're going to see moving forward - teams announced and given a bit of lead time, not just less than 6 months.  

[Watchmen]

4 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

I believe the rumour is 2 for next year, one in QC and one out west.

We're in November.  The season will likely start again in April (with pre-season then being earlier than that).  It was one thing to rush Ottawa in - most of their infrastructure was already in place.  But if they try to do it with 2 more teams, I think it would come off as a bit Mickey Mouse/minor league.   Get everything in order and give people (the new team, the city, the fans) time to properly prepare.

[CDNFootballer]

Any clubs coming in for next year will have been working behind the scenes for months or longer no doubt. Depending on the location, it is doable for clubs in an area like the Fraser Valley for a Metro Vancouver club to possibly come in next year as has been rumoured for a long time. The Langley Events Center has a newer field, parking and some infrastructure (grandstand base) already and just needs seating added ala Westhills/Starlight mainly for the stadium.

[Watchmen]

3 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

Any clubs coming in for next year will have been working behind the scenes for months or longer no doubt. Depending on the location, it is doable for clubs in an area like the Fraser Valley for a Metro Vancouver club to possibly come in next year as has been rumoured for a long time. The Langley Events Center has a newer field, parking and some infrastructure (grandstand base) already and just needs seating added ala Westhills/Starlight mainly for the stadium.

Any team planning to be an expansion city is working behind the scenes. And I didn't say it wasn't possible to get it done - I just think it would be done half-assed and rushed. And at this stage, I don't think that's a good look for either the new team or the league.  And if they wanted to play at the Langley Events center, they could have announced it ages ago. Langley has seemed more than willing to accommodate that. I think it's clear that's not the location a potential team wants.

[CDNFootballer]

So a potential club at the LEC wouldn't be half-assed and rushed was the point, as they have been rumoured to be apparently working behind the scenes for quite a long time, years possibly if it comes to fruition. We'll see.

[Watchmen]

14 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

So a potential club at the LEC wouldn't be half-assed and rushed was the point, as they have been rumoured to be apparently working behind the scenes for quite a long time, years possibly if it comes to fruition. We'll see.

Sure, but I think my point is - if it was the LEC you could have announced well before now.  There's no reason to have held off on the announcement.

[Kent]

3 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I thought they confirmed Saskatoon even at that time?  And the stadium location was announced, it was just a matter of ironing out the details.  The start year was a bit vague though - I think they said something like "optimistically 2022 but more realistically 2023". 

But I think that announcement is more likely what we're going to see moving forward - teams announced and given a bit of lead time, not just less than 6 months.  

"Confirmed" is a bit too strong, but it wasn't exactly how I remembered it either.

https://canpl.ca/article/canadian-premier-league-announces-expansion-in-saskatchewan

That article is the official announcement and it says "The launch of an expansion club is contingent upon LSSE delivering a soccer-specific stadium to League standards, and to that end, LSSE has identified Prairieland Park in Saskatoon as a preferred site for a stadium."

Then 4 months later there were articles like this. https://globalnews.ca/news/8030908/professional-soccer-saskatoon-regina-cpl-saskatchewan/

In there it says "Obviously, we’d like to see Saskatoon get up and running but, at the end of the day, if things don’t come together in Saskatoon and we can’t get a stadium financed and built then maybe Regina becomes the next logical place to look."

The whole announcement just kind of reminded me of the original Miami MLS announcement way back in February 2014. That team became official in January 2018 (almost 4 years later) and played it's first season in 2020, 6 years after the original announcement.

[grasshopper1917]

To me this talk of 'expansion' is crazy. There are 3 teams in the entire league drawing over 3000 fans in the league and 2 clubs that are clearly in no way viable. I mean it would make more sense to move slow and figure out if fans will actually come to the games in these markets. Also would make sense to sure up support in clubs that exist. It is clear Edmonton and York have to be moved. Both teams draw less the a high school 5 pin bowling tournament. 

[toontownman]

Nothing confirmed in Saskatoon. Awaiting the final renderings which is another classic CPL 30-60, 60-90, 90-120 days. Was due to be announced last month but postponed again "due to covid gathering restrictions". 

CPL happening in Saskatoon. It's the plan, the hope. Prairieland want it there, LSSE want it there. They have to take it to Saskatoon council and get both basic approval (more from double check zoning is in line) but more potentially problematic then getting city money toward the stadium costs. Then they need to do the same successfully with the provincial government.

Seems a no brainer to me for what the project potentially brings to the city and province. Stadium costs were reportedly around the 21m mark with PL and LSSE contributing a "significant amount". I'd imagine they are looking at 5-8m contribution from each Saskatoon/province. Possible that has risen with modifications since the original renderings etc. Still it's nothing compared to the roughriders stadium at $278m or even the new library down town at $154m. 

Like I said it's a no brainer from my perspective. I think Prairieland have modeled their entire future around it. If it doesn't happen there and this time there will NEVER be a team in Saskatoon, in my life time at least. This set up is too perfect, the cost is good and people want this. Whether the right people get that to approve it, who knows. If not, Regina will likely have the team. 

 

[ted]

2 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

To me this talk of 'expansion' is crazy. There are 3 teams in the entire league drawing over 3000 fans in the league and 2 clubs that are clearly in no way viable.

I think the solution is to expand the league in order to make it more relevant nationally. The longer the league stays small (and in particular has no presence in Quebec) the more it will be seen as "bush league". I think steady and reasonable expansion gives a boost to the whole league.

As for the attendance figures, COVID decimated the numbers for 2020 and 2021, and anyone expecting averages to be anywhere near 5,000 per game across the league before 2023 is delusional. As a matter of fact back in 2019 I'm pretty sure I suggested that meeting that milestone before 2022 was an unreasonable expectation and any ownership group needed to base their income projections on that reality.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

5 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

To me this talk of 'expansion' is crazy. There are 3 teams in the entire league drawing over 3000 fans in the league and 2 clubs that are clearly in no way viable...

They could always adjust the business model to make an average of 2500 readily sustainable and ease up on stadium requirements so 3000 seats or so in a pop-up at an ethnic social club or high school is fine.

Attempting to emulate the CFL on optics in a way that requires larger crowds than that before the interest level is there to sustain it has been one of the factors that has sunk past national league attempts.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

2 hours ago, ted said:

...COVID decimated the numbers for 2020 and 2021...

Halifax is drawing 6000+ again, so the idea that's holding things back in a big way elsewhere is wishful thinking IMO.

[grasshopper1917]

8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

They could always adjust the business model to make an average of 2500 readily sustainable and ease up on stadium requirements so 3000 seats or so in a pop-up at an ethnic social club or high school is fine.

Attempting to emulate the CFL on optics in a way that requires larger crowds than that before the interest level is there to sustain it has been one of the factors that has sunk past national league attempts.

By my estimation 2500 paying fans over 15 home dates would give the team about 1million in ticket revenue. Can you have a fully professional National sports league with teams only pulling in one million in ticket revenue? Some CFL teams pull this ticket revenue in for one home date.

For me you need to have an average of 4000 - 5000 to have a fully professional quality league. That or a tv deal... however I think they go hand and hand. If you get exposure of mainstream TV it will help attendance. Even in Halifax about half the delivery drivers I mention to the Wanderers to say 'What we have a soccer team in Halifax??'   

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

But what do you do if most markets are nowhere near 4000-5000 paid? Let the whole thing fold and wait another generation until people have started to forget why it didn't work the last time?

The key to having a lower budget pro league that actually lasts in North America is sticking to regional bus travel as much as possible and having full access to gameday revenue streams at venues you control.

The league the CSA has always aspired to having has been a replica of the CFL primarily in the larger cities with lots of air travel and with the clubs involved renting somebody else's large non-soccer specific stadium to appear big-time and major league.