CPL new teams speculation

[to70]

9 minutes ago, red card said:

It can be a good decision if it spurs development around the stadium. But as Rossi noted, it didn't happen with the hockey arena other than for a facility housing 2-3 football pitches & basketball court. Surrounded by highways, it was built assuming Mississauga people would drive 20-30 minutes to the eastern edge of the city. Maybe for one-off events but not regularly. All the various failed iterations of hockey & basketball teams through the years have had a hard time filling it.

The stadium will be at the western edge of the city surrounded by highways, undeveloped land, golf course and lowly populated streets of mostly new townhomes. 

Not near any of Mississauga's 4-5 major bus transit centres, 8 GO stations and soon to be built LRT line. It would be just as easy to go to BMO for those living in the east and south parts of Mississauga.

One of the councillor says in the article that the stadium is intended for all of the Peel region since Brampton is building a cricket stadium. In this regard, it is more easier for Milton and western Brampton residents to get to it - along with half of Oakville.

It is pretty close to Lisgar GO station and probably only about 5-10 minutes from Meadowale Go. The homes in that area go for 1.5m to 2m. Most of the undeveloped land in that area is already owned by Mattamy homes.

[red card]

36 minutes ago, to70 said:

It is pretty close to Lisgar GO station and probably only about 5-10 minutes from Meadowale Go. The homes in that area go for 1.5m to 2m. Most of the undeveloped land in that area is already owned by Mattamy homes.

Yes, close if driving. But if you're taking the GO, you don't have a car and would want the stadium to be in <15 minutes walking distance. Or they would need to set up shuttle buses - would get cumbersome after going to a few CPL matches.

Lisgar could be walkable if the stadium isn't too far south. But Lisgar is only suitable for Milton area people due to a narrow window for GO trains and the milk run routes of GO buses servicing Lisgar from the south.

Edited October 1, 2021 by red card

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shway]

The Sq1 location would be the most ideal imo. But I get why they would want to put it in “central” peel location. The reality is, residents from Sauga or Brampton don’t do much intra city travelling, so I can understand why Rossi wouldn’t think that location would be good for soccer.

Hershey centre is tucked away. The GTA loves the entertainment plus. People like to see a stadium mixed in with other venues (Restos, mall, bars, etc) they frequent. Reason why I believe it would automatically be successful in the SQ1 area - they just need that big money to make it happen 

[Shway]

Now would this team be a Mississauga FC squad or a Real Peel squad.

[Cblake]

2 hours ago, Shway said:

The Sq1 location would be the most ideal imo. But I get why they would want to put it in “central” peel location. The reality is, residents from Sauga or Brampton don’t do much intra city travelling, so I can understand why Rossi wouldn’t think that location would be good for soccer.

Hershey centre is tucked away. The GTA loves the entertainment plus. People like to see a stadium mixed in with other venues (Restos, mall, bars, etc) they frequent. Reason why I believe it would automatically be successful in the SQ1 area - they just need that big money to make it happen 

I agree with Dino, I just think their is a huge benefit to having it near the GO line, makes it easy to bring people in and out. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

https://www.insauga.com/mississaugas-huge-soccer-community-optimistic-city-will-get-a-pro-team/

...Ward 4 Councillor John Kovac, who along with Ward 9’s Pat Saito introduced a motion at Council in April 2018 to study the feasibility of building a major soccer stadium, said he’s cautiously optimistic about both a stadium and CPL expansion team. 

“Some momentum (for a CPL team) was lost due to the pandemic, but I’m hopeful,” said Kovac, adding he’s aware of CPL’s continued interest in Mississauga as an expansion site. “Soccer is very popular in Mississauga…and (getting a CPL team) would be a unique opportunity.” 

Ditta said Mississauga’s soccer community is excited about talk of a new stadium. That conversation has been “on-again, off-again” since the summer of 2017, he noted, adding SCC has been one of the driving forces behind the push, along with several councillors. 

“We’re very happy to see this conversation back on the docket and being discussed openly,” said Ditta, adding a multi-purpose stadium would likely be the best way to proceed given the costs involved...

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Shway]

I do wonder what the "cap number" of teams is. I hope they don't take a page out of the MLS and have mass expansion where the league becomes over-bloated and unbalanced. And they lean more to the Danish and Finish leagues of 12 teams, 22 game regular seasons. So that they can allow the period to grow/connect to the D3 leagues by establishing a "Canadian National League" (D2).

With Champions league expansion, Voyageurs cup expansion, and the potential for a future league cup. It will still be possible for teams to play a minimum of 25 games which i think is ideal considering our weather circumstance. Late March/April to October/Early November finish.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Being in the Leagues Cup would have been better than a Champions League entry in late February when many/most CanPL players are out of contract. Think people are making too much of that as a factor. Halifax doing so well and a few of the others being not so drastically far off where they would need to be long term is enough to provide some reasons to believe. 

My understanding is that they do have a pop-up stadium site ready to go on a relatively short timeline at the Langley Events Centre but it's a less than ideal location, which is probably why the trigger hasn't been pulled on lower mainland BC so far and Langford was preferred for the launch. The Port City name being actively registered hints at Surrey still being the desired locale in Fraser Valley terms rather than somewhere further inland like Langley.

I doubt they want to go back to an odd number of teams again so if, and it's a big if, anything is imminent the likely scenarios are either this is about being the other new team that comes in at the same time as Saskatoon if the Prairieland stadium happens or the guy from Halifax who talks about relocating one of the weak links on attendance may be about to get what he wants.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Aird25]

3 hours ago, Shway said:

I do wonder what the "cap number" of teams is. I hope they don't take a page out of the MLS and have mass expansion where the league becomes over-bloated and unbalanced. And they lean more to the Danish and Finish leagues of 12 teams, 22 game regular seasons. So that they can allow the period to grow/connect to the D3 leagues by establishing a "Canadian National League" (D2).

With Champions league expansion, Voyageurs cup expansion, and the potential for a future league cup. It will still be possible for teams to play a minimum of 25 games which i think is ideal considering our weather circumstance. Late March/April to October/Early November finish.

The GTA has a bigger population than Denmark or Finland so I imagine we could support more teams than those countries. I hope we land on the appropriate number of teams to allow for a proper balanced schedule within the summer playing window that we have. That'll still be far fewer than MLS has though. 

[Shway]

4 hours ago, Aird25 said:

The GTA has a bigger population than Denmark or Finland so I imagine we could support more teams than those countries. I hope we land on the appropriate number of teams to allow for a proper balanced schedule within the summer playing window that we have. That'll still be far fewer than MLS has though. 

While I do understand the population thing, it’s not really an apples to apples comparison considering many things.  

Popularity for one. Soccer is battling for the 3rd most popular sport in the GTA, where as a place like Denmark it’s their number 1. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Shway

[Aird25]

17 hours ago, Shway said:

While I do understand the population thing, it’s not really an apples to apples comparison considering many things.  

Popularity for one. Soccer is battling for the 3rd most popular sport in the GTA, where as a place like Denmark it’s their number 1. 

I get it, and I'm not suggesting 12 teams in the GTA. I just feel like we can afford to be a bit more ambitious. We already have teams 9 and 10 rumoured, and we're not even in Quebec yet

[Shway]

9 hours ago, Aird25 said:

I get it, and I'm not suggesting 12 teams in the GTA. I just feel like we can afford to be a bit more ambitious. We already have teams 9 and 10 rumoured, and we're not even in Quebec yet

I hear ya man. I'm just more bent on the infrastructure and setup of these new clubs being ideal vs "bad" clubs for the sake of expansion. I want to see more clubs in "perfect" stadia/setups vs what we are seeing with some in the cavernous stadiums/make shift like York United.

The perception of the professional product can't leave room for interpretation, and I think thats York Uniteds challenge. 

For example, Forge FC would look a lot better in a smaller intimate stadium (think rejuvenated Brian TImms Stadium) that has the potential to grow. While having the ability to use a larger stadium (Tim Hortons Field) for bigger events (think Forge FC vs Club America).

So if it means we got 12 teams in D1, and it allows there to be 12 teams in D2, and then 40+ teams in the Regional Leagues.

Ultimately I don't want the never ending expansion route to sustain a closed league ala MLS. If we do....we might as well start advocating for TFC, CFMTL, and VFWC to come home.

[Ftduck]

I miss Brian Timmis stadium. Hamilton Thunder season tickets were $80! Hamilton Croatia you just brought your own beer. Good times. Really hope new teams mimic Halifax's footprint for a SSS. Tim Hortons Field has good sight lines no matter were you sit but it's not a soccer stadium. Better than nothing though. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

From what I remember it took the Steelers one season to figure out that Ivor Wynne and gridiron lines wasn't a good fit for them and move to Brian Timmis which definitely had a good vibe to it even with 1500 there plus most importantly grass. 

Not so easy to do something like that when it's the Ticats running the show and there's a pro soccer commitment from Pan Am Games stadium funding to address unfortunately. At least the gridiron isn't permanently marked this time so I guess there has been some progress.

Think they should ease up a bit on the stadium requirements to facilitate expansion given crowds are not generally in the 6000-8000 range they were initially projecting.

Better to have a mostly filled 3500 seat Brian Timmis type setup with a great vibe and natural grass as the starting point than the Clarke Stadium in Edmonton scenario just to be able to tick a box on number of seats. Then scaleup organically from there if/when fan interest justifies it. Something something Canada's D1 something something optics though.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Trois Reds]

Of course, if MLS took your idea and eased up on their requirements in 2007, then TFC and the Sounders, for instance, wouldn't have built soccer stadiums and we would still have 10-12 MLS teams with 3000 fans per game in 12 Rose Bowl stadiums. Or a new version of the NASL, which went the way of the dodo.

Before this league started there was talk about 4000 fans per game being a break-even point for the clubs, which is why the CPL wants stadiums with a 5000+ capacity. Building a 3500 cap. stadium is economically unfeasible unless you expect, every game, a full stadium of people paying $40 a ticket.

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Trois Reds
cleaning up

[Bison44]

And I think we should ease up on the financials.  Initially they wanted guys with deepish pockets who were prepared to soak up some multi year losses, now I think they should open it it to owners that will fold the team after 1-2 poor seasons, you know to facilitate expansion.  

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

10 hours ago, Trois Reds said:

Of course, if MLS took your idea and eased up on their requirements in 2007, ....

MLS didn't start in 2007. It had plenty of cavernous NFL and college gridiron stadia at the outset in 1996. An alternative bid for D1 status called League One America had advocated the SSS approach but the USSF rejected it. Something something D1 something something optics basically.

The example provided by the surpringly good game day revenue streams that went with the smaller soccer specific Columbus Crew Stadium that Lamar Hunt moved the Crew to in 1998 arguably helped to save MLS when it came very close to folding in 2001. That was what helped inspire future expansion and made Richard Peddie of MLSE a believer in it working in Toronto after initially passing on the concept of having a team at launch in the Skydome in his previous job.

The relatively low budget popup in Halifax is what is actually working for CanPL. In a similar vein, soccer only Atco Field with grass and startlingly high ticket prices for the (larger than it needs to be right now) main stand is working out a lot better for CanPL in Alberta than Clarke Stadium despite the latter being in the city itself on an LRT route. You find a way to make things work by adapting to circumstances rather than ploughing on relentlessly with an initial plan.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

...The club has a firm belief that it can find success in homegrown supporters, with the Halifax Wanderers being a prime example: the east coast side routinely fills up its smaller-scale stadium, and more locally Peterborough has proven to a sports-loving city with the Peterboroug Petes and the Peterborough Lakers drawing between 2,500 to 3,000 fans on gamedays, which is a number higher than some Canadian Premier League clubs recorded in 2019.

If all goes to plan, the club hopes to be one of the first League1 Ontario teams to rise up to the Canadian Premier League level, though there’s no set timeline on those aspirations...

[Trois Reds]

8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The relatively low budget popup in Halifax is what is actually working for CanPL. In a similar vein, soccer only Atco Field with grass and startlingly high ticket prices for the (larger than it needs to be right now) main stand is working out a lot better for CanPL in Alberta than Clarke Stadium despite the latter being in the city itself on an LRT route. You find a way to make things work by adapting to circumstances rather than ploughing on relentlessly with an initial plan.

We are sort of agreeing on the first point, in a roundabout way. In regards to the smaller stadiums in Canada: CPL needs 4000 fans to break even, so building or using a 3500 person stadium doesn't do it. If you are losing money even when you sell out, your business model isn't working.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Trois Reds
Clean up wording

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

The cold hard reality is that they probably do still need to change the business model a bit to survive, but the more positive way of looking at things is that enough is going right in most of the markets for that not to be as farfetched as it was for the CSL by year three. Top of my list on saving money would be scaling back on the low quality imports through the agency. How many fans does having Tobias Warschewski on board add to a crowd in Edmonton? After that having more teams through easing up on stadium requirements could help keep things more regional in conferences and doable by long distance bus travel in a WHL sort of way.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

https://www.insauga.com/mississauga-mayor-says-50-million-soccer-stadium-shouldnt-be-built-if-it-will-jeopardize-other-projects/

...Crombie said while she knows “there’s a lot of excitement about a soccer stadium,” she doesn’t want such a facility built at the expense of current infrastructure plans, such as development of a new Port Credit Marina.

“I just don’t want to saddle my city with debt, because these big stadiums end up being white elephants,” she said, before somewhat softening her position. “(But) I know it would be a great venue to have, as long as it was funded.”  

Directed several weeks ago by councillors to once again study the feasibility of a major soccer stadium they say could host large national tournaments and would be a potential sports tourism gold mine, City of Mississauga staff said this week the undertaking would cost about $50 million...

 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Rumors were floating around two years ago that CEO Mohamad Fakih of Paramount Fine Foods was expressing interest in bringing a CPL team to Mississauga by 2020? You need to know that Covid-19 disrupted the process in Mississauga, which also included the stadium's funding. I don't know if he's still in the running, but a soccer podcaster reported that Fakih was speaking directly to the CPL. This is all I know, from what I remembered.

^^^This guy has what could politely be described as a mixed track record on inside info but think he did leak the info about Spruce Meadows being the location for the Calgary team on here much to the chagrin of certain other people.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

https://dailyhive.com/toronto/brampton-cricket-soccer-stadium

... Although the City Council documents focus almost entirely on cricket, Brampton Mayor Patrick Brown spoke to the other planned uses during his weekly press conference on Wednesday.

“The proposal from staff is for a multi-purpose facility,” Brown said. “I know some of the headlines said ‘cricket stadium’ but the instruction from Council is a multi-purposed facility, so it would be cricket, field hockey, and soccer.” ...

Sheffield United's ground in England was also a cricket stadium up to the 1970s so sharing between the sports isn't unheard of. Think Northampton Town was another example.