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CPL new teams speculation

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48 minutes ago, Ansem said:

We’re second-class citizens’: why MLS in Canada benefits everyone except Canada

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/13/mls-canada-american-citizens

"Montagliani warns that unless a critical issue is addressed – that Canadian players are treated as equal to Americans under MLS rules – Soccer Canada may take sweeping and dramatic action to block Toronto FC, Montreal Impact and Vancouver Whitecaps from continuing to play in the league."

US Labour Laws are the issue here with its America first approach. That is how its has been and always will be. There are huge differences in how Canada approaches foreign labour compared to the US, is a must easier to get a visa here and that is why MLS was able to allow the Canadian teams to count Americans as domestics as evident by the CFL quota where they for the most part have 22 of the 46 players on the roster are American. 

Minor league sports are different too as they play under an H-2B. For instances in baseball, each MLB team is allowed 20 visas a year to be used on players in their minor league system. So of the 150 or so in their minor league system each year 20 are internationals. 

We talk about TFC as team American but of the 26 players currently on the team there are 10 Canadians, 10 American, 6 internationals and two foreign born who count as domestics, one through Canada and one on a US green card. Thing is when MLS decided to count Americans as domestics for Canadian teams why did the CSA not challenge it, I assume they could have as they oversea the game in this country. We saw no lawsuits either as I am sure we would if the same was done in the US. 

Truth be told any player that signs an MLS contract qualifies for a P-1 Visa in the US, but its the labour laws that get in the way of them actually signing one. Now if MLS had no international limit and put all players on equal ground that would be a different story. In that case you are officially not limiting Americans from the opportunity, it all comes down to their talent not their nationality. It all comes down to not having anything official on the books that can be perceived as limiting opportunities for Americans and that is what allowing Canadians to be counted as domestic players would most likely do. 

 

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

We’re second-class citizens’: why MLS in Canada benefits everyone except Canada

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/13/mls-canada-american-citizens

"Montagliani warns that unless a critical issue is addressed – that Canadian players are treated as equal to Americans under MLS rules – Soccer Canada may take sweeping and dramatic action to block Toronto FC, Montreal Impact and Vancouver Whitecaps from continuing to play in the league."

 

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3 minutes ago, Cblake said:

US Labour Laws are the issue here with its America first approach. That is how its has been and always will be. There are huge differences in how Canada approaches foreign labour compared to the US, is a must easier to get a visa here and that is why MLS was able to allow the Canadian teams to count Americans as domestics as evident by the CFL quota where they for the most part have 22 of the 46 players on the roster are American. 

Minor league sports are different too as they play under an H-2B. For instances in baseball, each MLB team is allowed 20 visas a year to be used on players in their minor league system. So of the 150 or so in their minor league system each year 20 are internationals. 

 

Out of curiosity, how did/does the USL get around that issue, seeing as Canadians have been treated as domestics there, until next year at least.

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9 minutes ago, Initial B said:

Speaking of, apparently at the noon event someone asked the Atletico guys in spanish what the salary cap was and they said $750,000 in spanish....

We've known that for a while with near certainty, but good to have it confirmed.

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4 minutes ago, Cblake said:

US Labour Laws are the issue here with its America first approach. That is how its has been and always will be. There are huge differences in how Canada approaches foreign labour compared to the US, is a must easier to get a visa here and that is why MLS was able to allow the Canadian teams to count Americans as domestics as evident by the CFL quota where they for the most part have 22 of the 46 players on the roster are American. 

Minor league sports are different too as they play under an H-2B. For instances in baseball, each MLB team is allowed 20 visas a year to be used on players in their minor league system. So of the 150 or so in their minor league system each year 20 are internationals. 

We talk about TFC as team American but of the 26 players currently on the team there are 10 Canadians, 10 American, 6 internationals and two foreign born who count as domestics, one through Canada and one on a US green card. Thing is when MLS decided to count Americans as domestics for Canadian teams why did the CSA not challenge it, I assume they could have as they oversea the game in this country. We saw no lawsuits either as I am sure we would if the same was done in the US. 

Truth be told any player that signs an MLS contract qualifies for a P-1 Visa in the US, but its the labour laws that get in the way of them actually signing one. Now if MLS had no international limit and put all players on equal ground that would be a different story. In that case you are officially not limiting Americans from the opportunity, it all comes down to their talent not their nationality. It all comes down to not having anything official on the books that can be perceived as limiting opportunities for Americans and that is what allowing Canadians to be counted as domestic players would most likely do.

Can you provide specifics about the labour laws because they don't seem to stop NHL teams from fielding a whole roster of Canadian  internationals.

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1 minute ago, dyslexic nam said:

Can you provide specifics about the labour laws because they don't seem to stop NHL teams from fielding a whole roster of Canadian  internationals.

Because there are not quotas, in most north america major league sports a player is a player regardless of nationality. You are truly earning your spot based on talent, at least that is how its meant to be. When you introduce a quota of any sort you have to tread lightly. Even more so MLS teams do not have to sign eight international players if they do not want to, they can even trade the spot if they so choose. 

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I’d like to see this league get to 14 teams. Another in BC, Saskatchewan, western Ontario, 2 in Quebec and another in the maritimes. The momentum is there, I saw it yesterday with the Ottawa announcement and then with 2026 coming up. I also read on Twitter it was mentioned that the league would like to have a market in every current CHL city. That would be spectacular, then have 3 leagues with pro/rel that’s the dream for me.

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1 minute ago, Cblake said:

Because there are not quotas, in most north america major league sports a player is a player regardless of nationality. You are truly earning your spot based on talent, at least that is how its meant to be. When you introduce a quota of any sort you have to tread lightly. Even more so MLS teams do not have to sign eight international players if they do not want to, they can even trade the spot if they so choose. 

So can you provide info about the labour laws that make this so?  Like specific info.

Edited by dyslexic nam

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3 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

So can you provide info about the labour laws that make this so?  Like specific info.

There is no Labour law that makes this so.

If there was they wouldn't be able to get away with their convoluted rule that allows Homegrown players to count as domestics.

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6 minutes ago, narduch said:

There is no Labour law that makes this so.

If there was they wouldn't be able to get away with their convoluted rule that allows Homegrown players to count as domestics.

Plus discrimination laws come into play too. 

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31 minutes ago, Alex said:

I’d like to see this league get to 14 teams. Another in BC, Saskatchewan, western Ontario, 2 in Quebec and another in the maritimes. The momentum is there, I saw it yesterday with the Ottawa announcement and then with 2026 coming up. I also read on Twitter it was mentioned that the league would like to have a market in every current CHL city. That would be spectacular, then have 3 leagues with pro/rel that’s the dream for me.

3 leagues with pro/rel would be the dream for me too but unfortunately I feel it will only stay as a dream unless soccer becomes by far the #1 sport in the country. I'm hoping we see an increase in the attendance this year. 

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30 minutes ago, TFC2017 said:

3 leagues with pro/rel would be the dream for me too but unfortunately I feel it will only stay as a dream unless soccer becomes by far the #1 sport in the country. I'm hoping we see an increase in the attendance this year. 

Doesn't have to be #1 overall, just #1 in the summer. If CPL ever get to CFL level for merchandise sale, TV viewership and attendance...watch out!

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New clubs are exciting, but I think we should pump the brakes here a bit. Including the MLS clubs, we are in every market that has ever attempted D1 football in Canada (all due respect to Kitchener Spirit & London Lasers). 8 clubs is a great number from a scheduling point of view, which should lead to an attendance bump as I assume most matches will be on the weekend. If we stay at 8 for awhile, it should also mean that the schedule can come out much sooner, which I think is crucial for better attendance.

If there are major foreign and domestic investors champing at the bit to get in, Pacific, FCE, and HFX are all poorly capitalized. Let's help them first. Each club already has at least one question mark: Pacific (bad location, poorly capitalized, plastic pitch), FCE (horrible stadium, poorly capitalized, plastic pitch), Cavalry (bad location), Valour (not enough fans relative to stadium size, plastic pitch), York (identity crisis, stadium issues), Forge (not enough fans relative to stadium size, plastic pitch), AO (no fans, plastic pitch) and HFX (poorly capitalized, permanency of the stadium). We don't seem to have nearly enough sponsors overall.

I would fix these issues first, and you naturally move closer to the CFL cap of $5m. We already have so many clubs playing high level D3 or US D4. Let's bring these together at the $750k cap with all the supposed investors in London, Kitchener, Fraser Valley, Saskatoon, Quebec City etc. and focus our EXPANSION energy on building a West and East D2 of 8 clubs each. A 16 club D2 will provide all the CanCon we need, without delaying the growth of D1.

Edited by youllneverwalkalone

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1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Doesn't have to be #1 overall, just #1 in the summer. If CPL ever get to CFL level for merchandise sale, TV viewership and attendance...watch out!

It doesn't even have to be the whole league either. Once a few clubs get to those kinds of numbers, when Forge and Valour start filling out their respective stadiums for example, the battle will be won. 

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11 minutes ago, TFC2017 said:

Adding Ottawa was huge. Quebec City should be the next big market addition. I feel a Quebec City team would have great support. 

 

I think it’s important for this league to establish teams in Quebec not only for the francophone representation but for the development of soccer. It’s crazy that with the level of talent in Que there’s not already two teams

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On 2/10/2020 at 10:47 PM, shamrock said:

And then let go all the potential profits in the future? (it's this promise MLS is built on). 

 

OK, you are really not understanding business here.

The decision on playing in the CanPL is primarily sporting. There is NO requirement that the CanPL income and budgets come close to MLS levels. The only requirement from a business perspective, is that the league is viable.

They can sell the franchise to another ownership group and make $$$.

They can remain invested in MLS, and move the team and make $$$.

There is no way that they lose $$$ if they lose their exemption to play in Canada.

 

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1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Doesn't have to be #1 overall, just #1 in the summer. If CPL ever get to CFL level for merchandise sale, TV viewership and attendance...watch out!

Attendance to rise will need bigger stadiums in this country outside of those that play in CFL ones. I really do not see an appetite for a stadium boom in this country. Its evident by the push back with the proposed stadium plan in Halifax right now. I am not convinced it is going to be build. Would it have been better to have gone the traditional tv route, was that opportunity actually there. I think a combined tv and streaming deal would have made sense for exposure. Even the Toronto Arrows of Major League Rugby have a broadcast deal with TSN. I think their is opportunity for growth but how much we shall see. 

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1 hour ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

New clubs are exciting, but I think we should pump the brakes here a bit....

When there are no teams in Quebec or lower mainland BC, and Halifax has shown that smaller markets can actually work better than many of the larger ones? Seriously doubt that's what is on the league's agenda.

8 club leagues can quickly get very stale and boring when teams can easily be playing against each other 6 or 7 times per season. They've done the right thing by keeping the budgets low enough that 12 or 14 is very much credible if stadiums get sorted out in markets like Kitchener, London and Quebec City. At that point there's plenty of variety throughout the season.

The $1.5 million salary cap that many people wanted on here would have been a recipe for loads of red ink, but $0.75 million means running one of these teams isn't mission impossible in break even terms and year one showed there are plenty of players to be signed domestically that can provide a reasonable level of watchable pro soccer once provided with the opportunity to train full-time, so there's no need to fixate over being bigger budget than the USL or whatever.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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52 minutes ago, Cblake said:

Would it have been better to have gone the traditional tv route, was that opportunity actually there. I think a combined tv and streaming deal would have made sense for exposure. Even the Toronto Arrows of Major League Rugby have a broadcast deal with TSN. I think their is opportunity for growth but how much we shall see. 

Lot of sports can get shown on tv but the question is for how much. The Arrows are not receiving $200 million or even $20 million.

I watched parts of Sunday's Arrows game - not sure of the source of the feed used by TSN but the quality was like local tv station covering their local team. A bit clueless sideline reporter asked a Toronto player about playing for the coach - except name mentioned was of the Austin coach. Game was on TSN2 which isn't offered in most basic or basic+ packages.

So far, there is not much difference to the Game tv production of the games last year. And way below the standard of Sky Sports coverage of the Wolfpack games.

Vs the CPL, the CPL production is on par with national cable sports tv, provide pre & post shows and all matches are available. And in part helped by Mediapro, AM now owns a club in the league.

 

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29 minutes ago, red card said:

Lot of sports can get shown on tv but the question is for how much. The Arrows are not receiving $200 million or even $20 million.

I watched parts of Sunday's Arrows game - not sure of the source of the feed used by TSN but the quality was like local tv station covering their local team. A bit clueless sideline reporter asked a Toronto player about playing for the coach - except name mentioned was of the Austin coach. Game was on TSN2 which isn't offered in most basic or basic+ packages.

So far, there is not much difference to the Game tv production of the games last year. And way below the standard of Sky Sports coverage of the Wolfpack games.

Vs the CPL, the CPL production is on par with national cable sports tv, provide pre & post shows and all matches are available. And in part helped by Mediapro, AM now owns a club in the league.

 

I guess the question is, the upfront cash vs a bigger media foot print, whats more important , I guess its a question of short term vs long term gains. I think can all agree that more exposure for the league would have been achieved by being on TSN Sportsnet etc vs. One Soccer, more eyes would have seen them. Leagues can have more than one broadcast partner, wonder how much thought would have been given to doing a lesser deal with media pro, say for 12-15 million a season and holding back some games to be sold to a traditional tv broadcaster. I know we ended up with 10 games on CBC. 

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