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CPL new teams speculation

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18 hours ago, Cblake said:

I see the sanction renewal being a good thing in the CSAs eyes, as having as the the MLS teams are currently a step up from the CPL. Canadian players currently have a place to play in Canada in both the CPL and MLS depending on where they are as players.

You'd be right if MLS treated Canadians the same USL did. Otherwise, having no Canadian clubs in MLS doesn't prevent Canadians from playing in MLS. If they are good enough, higher leagues will buy them, MLS or else.

As for the CSA being happy with status quo, I dont know Reid but Montagliani was willing to pull out over roster rules and also, years of putting all our chips in MLS got us no World Cup qualifications, no Hex participation no U20 world cup. 

18 hours ago, Cblake said:

. TFC has its academy and players are being signed out of it every year to first teams deals with TFCII being a stepping stone.

TFC...you mean Team America?

18 hours ago, Cblake said:

Victor having been a part of the CSA knows first hand what role MLS has played in the advancement of player development in the country has played.

Which he threatened to pull from because status quo was pointless unless the roster rules were fair.

18 hours ago, Cblake said:

As long as the US MLS teams count Canadians as internationals having the three MLS teams is big for Canadian soccer.

Vancouver and Montreal got better but TFC are "team America" for a reason. (That's even American fans saying that). It's still amusing that during the Canadian Championship they like to stick to the bear minimum of 3 most of the time and will sub most/all of them at some point.

18 hours ago, Cblake said:

Now if the salaries in the CPL rise etc and the type of player they sign improves then things may change. I can see some give and take on this issue like maybe the VCup rules being instituted for league play, who knows.

No one's talking short term, post 2026 World cup makes more sense where the league will most likely be bigger than now. (MLS started with salaries around 12-13k, and it grew overtime...this can't happen here why exactly?)

18 hours ago, Cblake said:

We have seen the battle going on with the NHL and the IIHF, just do not see anyone wanting something like that in football. 

You really can't compare North American leagues to FIFA. Where leagues are giants in comparison to their international bodies, FIFA is the giant in the room. MLS is significantly smaller in scope and power. If FIFA wants something, it gets it.

Heck even the IOC, UEFA super clubs and Brazil (alcohol laws were changed) can't due anything when FIFA decides something, this belief that MLS somehow would make them shake is truly incomprehensible 

Edited by Ansem

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6 hours ago, nfitz said:

There's no way that CONCACAF and CSA would go that direction when there is such a massive difference in quality between the two leagues. Nor has there been any suggestion from them that they would.

There's a massive difference between top teams and bottom tier teams in most leagues around the world. Forced parity is the exception, not the norm. Unlikely that "quality" would be a factor here. Otherwise, we should start dismantling most leagues.

That's football 

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10 hours ago, Ansem said:

They can't force the 3 MLS teams into CPL. I dont know what's so hard to understand about that.

They can approve or deny the sanction renewal which is very likely to be denied next time around 

This notion of FIFA being scared of MLS is truly baffling and shows a misunderstanding of what FIFA is. 

Likely based on what? LMAO

If CPL and Soccer Canada go after the 3 MLS teams, **** em all...

I personally want a North American Superleague to be created. 4 divisions split between Canada (1), Mexico (1) and the USA (2). The divisions can have promotion and relegation to a closed 2nd tier.

Only way I personally would like to see the 3 MLS teams join the "CanPL".

Until that day, CanPL should just focus on developing Canadian youth and not on taking away the highest level of competition we have in this country.

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14 minutes ago, zen said:

Likely based on what? LMAO

If CPL and Soccer Canada go after the 3 MLS teams, **** em all...

I personally want a North American Superleague to be created. 4 divisions split between Canada (1), Mexico (1) and the USA (2). The divisions can have promotion and relegation to a closed 2nd tier.

Only way I personally would like to see the 3 MLS teams join the "CanPL".

Until that day, CanPL should just focus on developing Canadian youth and not on taking away the highest level of competition we have in this country.

“Super league...” ugh, no thanks!

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I hope that in the end if the three Canadian MLS teams join the CPL it’s voluntary not forced. It might be for the fact that attendance starts to go down and economically with the low attendance it just makes sense to play in the CPL and save money. Moreover, maybe they join because the level in the CPL is almost the same and attendance have picked up where most CPL teams are getting more or the same as most CFL teams. Like I mentioned in an earlier post I’ll know that it may be time for the Canadian MLS teams to join the CPL when I can go to a game in Winnipeg or Hamilton and the stadium is just as full as it is for a CFL game in the same stadiums . I don’t want them to join if you are still going to a Forge or a Valour game and see  stadiums that are 80 percent empty .

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I’m content for now with the MLS teams in separate leagues.  I would like the MLS teams to follow 50% CanCon rules for the V Cup but for now that’s it.

The revised MLS roster rules are not terrible anymore and at the moment there’s about 40 Canadian MLS players which is not bad in terms of opportunity and about the CanCon would be for all 3 MLS teams if they were in CanPL.

 

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Has anyone run numbers on how many CPL players have spent time with Canadian MLS teams? How many that have been on the first team? Second team? Academy system? I know Montreal and Vancouver don’t have second teams anymore, but it would still be interesting to see those numbers. I think it would illustrate that despite the flaws with MLS and their teams, there is still a benefit to having them. If a TFC for example left MLS for CPL, yes they would give more first team minutes to Canadians, but they might scale back or completely drop TFC II and the academy as well.

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My hope is that if the Canadian MLS teams don't migrate to the CPL, then there will be CPL teams in MLS markets. The challenge, and talent is there for it to be a legit alternative, but it would require big money backings. 

Toronto at Lamport, Vancouver at Swangward, Montreal at CSCR would be ideal. 

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5 hours ago, Ansem said:

You'd be right if MLS treated Canadians the same USL did. Otherwise, having no Canadian clubs in MLS doesn't prevent Canadians from playing in MLS. If they are good enough, higher leagues will buy them, MLS or else.

As for the CSA being happy with status quo, I dont know Reid but Montagliani was willing to pull out over roster rules and also, years of putting all our chips in MLS got us no World Cup qualifications, no Hex participation no U20 world cup. 

TFC...you mean Team America?

Which he threatened to pull from because status quo was pointless unless the roster rules were fair.

Vancouver and Montreal got better but TFC are "team America" for a reason. (That's even American fans saying that). It's still amusing that during the Canadian Championship they like to stick to the bear minimum of 3 most of the time and will sub most/all of them at some point.

No one's talking short term, post 2020 World cup makes more sense where the league will most likely be bigger than now. (MLS started with salaries around 12-13k, and it grew overtime...this can't happen here why exactly?)

You really can't compare North American leagues to FIFA. Where leagues are giants in comparison to their international bodies, FIFA is the giant in the room. MLS is significantly smaller in scope and power. If FIFA wants something, it gets it.

Heck even the IOC, UEFA super clubs and Brazil (alcohol laws were changed) can't due anything when FIFA decides something, this belief that MLS somehow would make them shake is truly incomprehensible 

When did Victor threaten to pull out of MLS and where was he expecting the three teams to play. Having been a TFC season ticket holder for years and followed them I have never read anywhere of such a situation, so where is this exactly coming from?

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5 hours ago, Cblake said:

When did Victor threaten to pull out of MLS and where was he expecting the three teams to play. Having been a TFC season ticket holder for years and followed them I have never read anywhere of such a situation, so where is this exactly coming from?

We’re second-class citizens’: why MLS in Canada benefits everyone except Canada

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/13/mls-canada-american-citizens

"Montagliani warns that unless a critical issue is addressed – that Canadian players are treated as equal to Americans under MLS rules – Soccer Canada may take sweeping and dramatic action to block Toronto FC, Montreal Impact and Vancouver Whitecaps from continuing to play in the league."

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Back to the subject matter. This guy has a good track record:

Hope that's accurate. I feel much better about the league now with this foreign investor angle happening. Less fear of a rerun of the CSL now because Atletico Ottawa is something very different from the Intrepid or Pioneers and they definitely do appear to have learned a lot from MLS even if they are not being fully transparent about it.

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5 hours ago, shamrock said:

Funny how Team America is providing players for the Canadian Premier League though...

Because they aren't playing them in MLS. How come so little of the guys they develop makes 1st team? That's a whole different debate.

Playing more Americans than Canadians most of the time shouldn't be a thing to celebrate but to question. Heck they play more Americans than Canadians in the Canadian Championship of all places.

US front office, management & coach...I get it though.

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5 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Back to the subject matter. This guy has a good track record:

Hope that's accurate. I feel much better about the league now with this foreign investor angle happening. Less fear of a rerun of the CSL now because Atletico Ottawa is something very different from the Intrepid or Pioneers and they definitely do appear to have learned a lot from MLS even if they are not being fully transparent about it.

If players gets their union, they'll have to be transparent on salaries, obviously, they dont have too at this point.

Glad you're coming around 

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If I had to guess on markets for 2021 expansion and one in the east and one in the west, I'd go for Fraser valley and K/W with the Langley Events Centre hosting a foreign club looking to tap into lower mainland BC in academy terms, and K/W being the next in the east due to being the first to sort out a viable stadium solution. Olympique Lyon losing interest is not a good sign for Quebec City. Rumours also suggest original investors hold the territorial rights for Fraser valley and K/W which may help keep expansion costs reasonable.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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31 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

If I had to guess on markets for 2021 expansion and one in the east and one in the west, I'd go for Fraser valley and K/W with the Langley Events Centre hosting a foreign club looking to tap into lower mainland BC in academy terms, and K/W being the next in the east due to being the first to sort out a viable stadium solution. Olympique Lyon losing interest is not a good sign for Quebec City. Rumours also suggest original investors hold the territorial rights for Fraser valley and K/W which may help keep expansion costs reasonable.

I don't think there's any evidence OL has lost interest, in fact there is no hard evidence of them really being interested. 

The best suggestion of a certain will is them buying Reign in Seattle, but if course that is probably the best women's club in the world buying into a top market for women's talent. 

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50 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Because they aren't playing them in MLS. How come so little of the guys they develop makes 1st team? That's a whole different debate.

Playing more Americans than Canadians most of the time shouldn't be a thing to celebrate but to question. Heck they play more Americans than Canadians in the Canadian Championship of all places.

US front office, management & coach...I get it though.

TFC is one of the best producers of Homegrowns with Dallas and Redbulls. Not all of hem succeed, but they sure are producing large numbers of Professional Footballers so that others can use them.

I don't have any problems with them having US managers. If they'd suck yeah ok. 

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1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Because they aren't playing them in MLS. How come so little of the guys they develop makes 1st team? That's a whole different debate.

Playing more Americans than Canadians most of the time shouldn't be a thing to celebrate but to question. Heck they play more Americans than Canadians in the Canadian Championship of all places.

US front office, management & coach...I get it though.

Its time for the CSA to grow a backbone and threaten to make all American players count as Internationals on Canadian MLS clubs. Unless MLS/USSF finally offer us back true reciprocity.

Now is the time to do it, with Montreal and Vancouver carrying so few Americans.

As for the actual topic. My prediction for the next 2 expansion teams are Fraser Valley and Quebec City.

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1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Back to the subject matter. This guy has a good track record:

Hope that's accurate. I feel much better about the league now with this foreign investor angle happening. Less fear of a rerun of the CSL now because Atletico Ottawa is something very different from the Intrepid or Pioneers and they definitely do appear to have learned a lot from MLS even if they are not being fully transparent about it.

Thanks Ozzie for this post. Very important post should it be true.

My prediction for the two teams would be Saskatoon/Regina and Québec City. I know a few people on here think Fraser Valley, but Clanachan himself has mentioned how there are a lot of people pressuring him for a CPL club in Saskatchewan. I don't think it would be wise to keep them waiting any longer 😁

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23 minutes ago, dnina10 said:

 

Thanks Ozzie for this post. Very important post should it be true.

My prediction for the two teams would be Saskatoon/Regina and Québec City. I know a few people on here think Fraser Valley, but Clanachan himself has mentioned how there are a lot of people pressuring him for a CPL club in Saskatchewan. I don't think it would be wise to keep them waiting any longer 😁

All reports are that Joe Belan and the Saskatoon bid doesn't have the capital necessary.

Edited by BuzzAndSting

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55 minutes ago, narduch said:

Its time for the CSA to grow a backbone and threaten to make all American players count as Internationals on Canadian MLS clubs. Unless MLS/USSF finally offer us back true reciprocity.

Now is the time to do it, with Montreal and Vancouver carrying so few Americans.

As for the actual topic. My prediction for the next 2 expansion teams are Fraser Valley and Quebec City.

I actually think now is the least likely time that the CSA would do that, they'd probably rather have the MLS-level Canadians who cannot find jobs because they count as internationals playing in the CPL as opposed to being second string on American MLS sides. Indeed, the fewer Canadians there are in MLS, the better the level of Canadians in the CPL would be *for now*. In a few years, as the CPL expands and improves, things may change, but right now I don't think there's any impetus to fight for that MLS rule change.

But I agree with your expansion prediction. The league clearly knows they need a team in Quebec about as much as they needed a team in Ottawa so will be fighting hard to make it happen. Now whether they announce it as happening the following season or the one after (i.e. if they announce it in July 2020, are they saying they'll start in 2021 or 2022?) is another question.

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1 hour ago, Ansem said:

If players gets their union, they'll have to be transparent on salaries, obviously, they dont have too at this point.

Speaking of, apparently at the noon event someone asked the Atletico guys in spanish what the salary cap was and they said $750,000 in spanish. When asked the same question, the league hemmed and hawed around without giving a definitive answer. :D

I went to the evening event and got to ask a couple of questions (the possibility of a Div 2 and why Mista as coach) and I got a couple of scarves (CanPL and a black scarf with an AO patch quickly sewn on) and I got free food for dinner. A profitable expedition!

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1 minute ago, Initial B said:

I went to the evening event and got to ask a couple of questions (the possibility of a Div 2 and why Mista as coach) and I got a couple of scarves (CanPL and a black scarf with an AO patch quickly sewn on) and I got free food for dinner. A profitable expedition!

I know this isn't what happened, in part because I also went to the evening event and got a scarf, but I love the idea of us showing up at the pub to find them furiously sewing on the AO patches, trying to get it done as fast as they can before the event starts.

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