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CPL new teams speculation

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8 hours ago, ted said:

excuse me wtf GIF by Married At First Sight Australia

Give your head a shake. FIFA is the most powerful sporting organization on the planet. The IOC bows before them. Nations bribe them to host events and suspend laws to favour them.

 

1) I'm going to keep coming back to it: FIFA is utterly corrupt, and they will bend the knee to whoever has the most money.  If a group of billionaire owners decides that they want a breakaway super league and are willing to fund it, FIFA will 100% cave to them.

2) Nations have bribed the IOC before to host events and willingly suspended laws to favour them.

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18 hours ago, Ansem said:

I really dont get how you make the leap that this ruling somehow guarantees that FIFA will back extending the waivers. CONCACAF certainly hasn't indicate that it's leaning that way at all.

-The clubs' case cited a sub-section of FIFA statutes stating "a club's entitlement to take part in a domestic league championship shall depend principally on sporting merit." The FIFA article also notes participation "may be subject to other criteria."

That's the little bit that got Silva's claim thrown out as FIFA decided to use this to justify not enforcing this rule. His claim was flawed anyhow as he was trying to force his way into MLS which started as a closed league, not a pro/rel league that broke away to closed itself. That's the huge difference here.

If you look at what happened in lower US division, nothing prevents USL to get their standards upgraded and apply for a D1 status just like they did when applying for a D2 status when the NASL was still around. Meeting all the USSF criteria for D1 and still being denied could have gave him an antitrust case against MLS/SUM/USSF. But hey, I get it, it costs way more and is way more complicated than hoping FIFA does the bidding for you, which didn't happen.

This has nothing to do with Article 73 which FIFA has been enforcing consistently AND in Canada/US aka Ottawa Fury. We can't even qualify to CCL via the league contrarily to Monaco and the Welsh clubs...what does that tell you? How "integrated" are we really with MLS/USSF if the whole deal is possible thanks to waivers? Canadians aren't even domestics across the board but you're arguing we should get the "North American league exception" when our roster rules are not the same like the NA other leagues.

This is where that "argument" doesn't hold for me. We're "glorified guests" in that league, nowhere near fully integrated like the Welsh Clubs, Monaco or Canadian teams in North American leagues.

 

How about Wellington Phoenix?  Can that meet your argument?  New Zealand has it's own league.  Wellington can't qualify for any continental competitions via the A-League.  Like the MLS teams, I'm willing to bet they keep getting exemptions.

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50 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

How about Wellington Phoenix?  Can that meet your argument?  New Zealand has it's own league.  Wellington can't qualify for any continental competitions via the A-League

Well Wellington can't qualify for AFC Champions league because they are members of OFC.

52 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Like the MLS teams, I'm willing to bet they keep getting exemptions.

Again, different set of circumstances 

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4 hours ago, Watchmen said:

How about Wellington Phoenix?  Can that meet your argument?  New Zealand has it's own league.  Wellington can't qualify for any continental competitions via the A-League.  Like the MLS teams, I'm willing to bet they keep getting exemptions.

The NZ Premier league was founded after Wellington joined the A-league. My guess is when (if) the NZPL grows in importance Phoenix will get out of the A-league voluntarily. It's not that they own a share in the league itself as a cash train like the Canadian teams in MLS. 

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On 2/8/2020 at 8:56 PM, Watchmen said:

1) I'm going to keep coming back to it: FIFA is utterly corrupt, and they will bend the knee to whoever has the most money. 

What does that have to do with your statement that, "Fifa's "rules" matter as much as others do"?

Of course they are corrupt and have made decisions that are based on money. That's the not the point you made nor the one I am challenging.

Regardless of how the rules are constructed, once FIFA has made them, they matter very much.  When they choose to enforce them, no league or national FA can stand in their way. 

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1 hour ago, ted said:

Regardless of how the rules are constructed, once FIFA has made them, they matter very much.  When they choose to enforce them, no league or national FA can stand in their way. 

With Montagliani in charge of CONCACAF, he must be have a countdown clock on his desk on when the waiver expires. 😂

I think it's inevitable that CPL will be in Toronto, Montreal & Vancouver, one way or another. At least with not renewing the exemption, the 3 MLS owners could try to hold on to their city monopoly.

If somehow the 3 MLS teams are to stay, CPL will enter the cities by opening up expansion to an ownership or partition the cities by "area" or "borough" for D2 expansions. I was listening to Premier Podcast and he's right on one point as I know Montreal. Someone could make the d--k move of putting a team downtown or Molson stadium and that team would get immediate attention.

 

But anyways, I think that CPL is just waiting the waiver out and will decide what to do next based on CONCACAF action or inaction

Edited by Ansem

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Canadian MLS teams have invested heavily in MLS not just their teams in but in the league itself. No way they are voluntarily giving that up. Best case scenario they could sell their stake in MLS but again, who's going to compensate them?

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3 minutes ago, shamrock said:

Canadian MLS teams have invested heavily in MLS not just their teams in but in the league itself. No way they are voluntarily giving that up. Best case scenario they could sell their stake in MLS but again, who's going to compensate them?

They entered MLS with $10M-$35M-$40M respectively. Selling their franchise would get them back several times that initiate value.  (TFC is now valued at close to $250M with an initial $10M entry fee.)

They most likely wouldn't walk away wounded one bit.

 

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5 hours ago, shamrock said:

Canadian MLS teams have invested heavily in MLS not just their teams in but in the league itself. No way they are voluntarily giving that up. Best case scenario they could sell their stake in MLS but again, who's going to compensate them?

When you, "sell" your stake you get, "compensated " with this thing we call money. LOL

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10 hours ago, ted said:

What does that have to do with your statement that, "Fifa's "rules" matter as much as others do"?

Of course they are corrupt and have made decisions that are based on money. That's the not the point you made nor the one I am challenging.

Regardless of how the rules are constructed, once FIFA has made them, they matter very much.  When they choose to enforce them, no league or national FA can stand in their way. 

"When they chose to enforce them".  That's the key. And that's where their corruption sets in.  Their rules are very much subject to their own corruption.  That's my point.

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9 hours ago, Ansem said:

But anyways, I think that CPL is just waiting the waiver out and will decide what to do next based on CONCACAF action or inaction

Oh ffs.  So you're willing to admit that it's entirely possible that CONCACAF will do nothing?  That's all I've been arguing.  That this whole "as soon as the waiver expires the MLS teams will have to join CPL" is utter bullsh!t because it doesn't mean that at all.

Edit: Admittedly, that's not all I've been arguing.  But that's been the crux of my point. :P 

Edited by Watchmen

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1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

Oh ffs.  So you're willing to admit that it's entirely possible that CONCACAF will do nothing?  That's all I've been arguing.  That this whole "as soon as the waiver expires the MLS teams will have to join CPL" is utter bullsh!t because it doesn't mean that at all.

Edit: Admittedly, that's not all I've been arguing.  But that's been the crux of my point. :P 

Who's in charge? Montagliani 

CONCACAF doing nothing is slim to none une Victor 

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6 hours ago, ted said:

When you, "sell" your stake you get, "compensated " with this thing we call money. LOL

And then let go all the potential profits in the future? (it's this promise MLS is built on). 

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3 hours ago, Ansem said:

Who's in charge? Montagliani 

CONCACAF doing nothing is slim to none une Victor 

I think forcing the 3 Canadian teams into the CPL is a totally different kettle of fish from doing that to the Fury.  You pick your battles and I don’t see CONCACAF picking a fight with MLS.

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One thing to keep in mind about TFC is a sale of the team, even if it were to be for $250mm, wouldn't be the windfall it appears. I don't recall specific numbers but am sure TFC has lost money every year on an operating basis. Let's just say it's a loss of $5mm a year (I'm sure it's far more) that would reduce the gain from $240mm down to $140mm. Then you need to consider the $$ sunk into BMO Field, their training centre, etc. I expect it would still end up being a sizable profit but not quite the amount it would seem on the surface.

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6 hours ago, JamboAl said:

I think forcing the 3 Canadian teams into the CPL is a totally different kettle of fish from doing that to the Fury.  You pick your battles and I don’t see CONCACAF picking a fight with MLS.

They can't force the 3 MLS teams into CPL. I dont know what's so hard to understand about that.

They can approve or deny the sanction renewal which is very likely to be denied next time around 

This notion of FIFA being scared of MLS is truly baffling and shows a misunderstanding of what FIFA is. 

Edited by Ansem

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3 hours ago, Ansem said:

They can't force the 3 MLS teams into CPL. I dont know what's so hard to understand about that.

They can approve or deny the sanction renewal which is very likely to be denied next time around 

This notion of FIFA being scared of MLS is truly baffling and shows a misunderstanding of what FIFA is. 

I see the sanction renewal being a good thing in the CSAs eyes, as having as the the MLS teams are currently a step up from the CPL. Canadian players currently have a place to play in Canada in both the CPL and MLS depending on where they are as players. TFC has its academy and players are being signed out of it every year to first teams deals with TFCII being a stepping stone. Victor having been a part of the CSA knows first hand what role MLS has played in the advancement of player development in the country has played. As long as the US MLS teams count Canadians as internationals having the three MLS teams is big for Canadian soccer. Now if the salaries in the CPL rise etc and the type of player they sign improves then things may change. I can see some give and take on this issue like maybe the VCup rules being instituted for league play, who knows. We have seen the battle going on with the NHL and the IIHF, just do not see anyone wanting something like that in football. 

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3 hours ago, Ansem said:

They can approve or deny the sanction renewal which is very likely to be denied next time around 

In your opinion.

I think you are 100% wrong. There's no way that CONCACAF and CSA would go that direction when there is such a massive difference in quality between the two leagues. Nor has there been any suggestion from them that they would.

Maybe in a few decades time.

Edited by nfitz

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23 minutes ago, nfitz said:


Maybe in a few decades time.

“few” = never (imho).

I keep coming back here for CPL New Team Speculation, but I might as well waddle into this conversation. 

Lots of examples have been used here, from Swansea to NZ to Monaco, to validate / counter the Cdn MLS teams. They are all different and special in their own way, but one thing they all have in common is money/budget relative to their host league.

When CPL clubs reach player budgets within ~60% of MLS clubs, we can talk. Until then, I don’t see FIFA upsetting anything. That actually applies to every other example provided on this thread, I think.

Edited by IAmPappy

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1 hour ago, IAmPappy said:

“few” = never (imho).

I keep coming back here for CPL New Team Speculation, but I might as well waddle into this conversation. 

Lots of examples have been used here, from Swansea to NZ to Monaco, to validate / counter the Cdn MLS teams. They are all different and special in their own way, but one thing they all have in common is money/budget relative to their host league.

When CPL clubs reach player budgets within ~60% of MLS clubs, we can talk. Until then, I don’t see FIFA upsetting anything. That actually applies to every other example provided on this thread, I think.

I can see what you are saying (and agree) but I would point out that there is one major difference.  Let's take the Wellington Phoenix example, as it's closest related to our situation (i.e. no pro/rel, relatively new league etc.).  If there were 3 A-League teams in NZ, would they be allowed to join the A-League?  Or would the three be forced into the NZ league?

There is no doubt that this is most akin to our situation so it is a valid question.  I have to think that with 3 teams they would then play in the NZ league, no?  Also keep in mind that the gap between CPL and MLS is comparable to that between the NZ league and A league.  

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