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CPL new teams speculation

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3 hours ago, TFC2017 said:

What would you guys consider the CPL's first major breakthrough as a major league in the continent? 

I'd say it already came with Forge beating international competition in the CL and Cavalry beating Vancouver over two legs.  However, the big one will come later this year when Y9 beats Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver to lift the V Cup.

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41 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

...Although they do seem to care about results, which is better seen in Germany or Austria than in MLS...

RBNY have a very strong academy and USL 2 team after bringing in a former Scotland manager and UEFA techical director called Andy Roxburgh to build that side of things up. Would be good to see an academy system starting in Ottawa through the Atletico Madrdid angle because the rest of CanPL seems to be shying away from doing that for fear of upsetting youth clubs.

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2 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I don't understand the need by some on this board to be so sensitive about their beloved MLS. If it was so great, I wouldn't see the need to be so defensive.

Yes, it’s really hard to understand why I’d say the CPL doesn’t need sycophants to **** on another league in order to be successful.

Let me be clearer: CPL is no more humble than MLS for choosing Atletico as a team owner. The insinuation is idiotic at best and pandering at worst.

On the surface, Atletico Ottawa looks like it’ll be a positive for CPL, fans in Ottawa, and the game as a whole in Canada. Ultimately it’ll be judged by how much of impact it has on the local and national soccer scene over the course of decades, just like any other professional club. 

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49 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

Atletico has owners that are, I think, respected leaders. I don't see any reason not to be associated with their brand. I feel like they have things to teach us. What could City teach you. Be a rich **** and buy everything? This sounds like the MLS take away.

Lyon has a similar story. I don't know the who the Chinese interests are that own 20%. Frankly, it concerns me a bit, but I don't know what I don't know here. 

Atlético does not have an impollute history. The current majority shareholder's father, Jesús Gil y Gil, was corrupt, and sentenced for it, he was a real crook in business and a small city mayor on the Costa Brava with very shady dealings, apart from being a neo-fascist. He was rather disgusting in pretty well every way (speaking, appearance, attitude9, and the team did not do well under him. They even undid their youth structure because they were living off commissions from dubious transfers. They have the 3rd biggest fan base, potentially, in the country (maybe Betís and Athletic Bilbao rival), the third highest budget, and should be where they are now. 

It seems that the team has really cleaned up under the current situation, which actually surprises me, since there is a long history of kids of corrupt business people doing the same or worse in Spain. Miguel Ángel Gil Marin has 51%, ten there is something like 20% for Enrique Cerezo who is a media producer (I imagine his close relationship with Roures of Mediapro might come from here), he is a rather cultured fellow. And then an Israeli bought in for the rest maybe a year and a half ago, Idan Ofer, picking up the shares of Wanda (who still have naming rights on the new stadium). So not entirely eliminating the Chinese connection. Ofer's company, Plus 500, has been the shirt sponsor for longer. So it is controlled from home now, and it appears to be more centred and serious than ever. This clearly shows in their results on the field, and their constancy (Simeone must be the longest employed coach of a major club in the world right now).

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24 minutes ago, RS said:

Yes, it’s really hard to understand why I’d say the CPL doesn’t need sycophants to **** on another league in order to be successful.

Let me be clearer: CPL is no more humble than MLS for choosing Atletico as a team owner. The insinuation is idiotic at best and pandering at worst.

On the surface, Atletico Ottawa looks like it’ll be a positive for CPL, fans in Ottawa, and the game as a whole in Canada. Ultimately it’ll be judged by how much of impact it has on the local and national soccer scene over the course of decades, just like any other professional club. 

I'd agree but take it one step further... we don't even have a surface to judge yet.  We literally have a rumour of a club.  For all we know the CPL will bend the rules and allow them to bring their entire academy over with 3 Canadian journeymen sprinkled in...  

Now obviously that won't happen but it's important to balance a worst-case scenario with the best-case scenarios that seem to be dancing around our optimistic heads.  I'm hopeful that this team can be more original than NYCFC but we really don't know.  If MLS looked back now would they still have brought in City Group?  I have a tough time saying "yes" to that... they now have two "less than ideal" teams in their biggest market with very limited growth potential.  Putting these feeder clubs in major markets was an unbelievably big error on MLS part.. luckily they were able to correct the Chivas USA fiasco and now have a big club with LAFC in it's place.  New York they likely won't be able to fix anytime soon.

I think we have a much more risk-averse scenario with a team coming into Ottawa, as opposed to one of the big cities.  That's about all I really can say confidently on the surface without knowing anything else.    

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9 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I'd agree but take it one step further... we don't even have a surface to judge yet.  We literally have a rumour of a club.  For all we know the CPL will bend the rules and allow them to bring their entire academy over with 3 Canadian journeymen sprinkled in...  

Now obviously that won't happen but it's important to balance a worst-case scenario with the best-case scenarios that seem to be dancing around our optimistic heads.  I'm hopeful that this team can be more original than NYCFC but we really don't know.  If MLS looked back now would they still have brought in City Group?  I have a tough time saying "yes" to that... they now have two "less than ideal" teams in their biggest market with very limited growth potential.  Putting these feeder clubs in major markets was an unbelievably big error on MLS part.. luckily they were able to correct the Chivas USA fiasco and now have a big club with LAFC in it's place.  New York they likely won't be able to fix anytime soon.

I think we have a much more risk-averse scenario with a team coming into Ottawa, as opposed to one of the big cities.  That's about all I really can say confidently on the surface without knowing anything else.    

It's true that we're all taking reports as fact, but I think there's enough smoke now to reasonably declare a fire.

Your concerns are valid, and I will say that one thing @youllneverwalkalone got right is that CPL has the advantage of seeing what MLS got right and what it got wrong, specifically in the cases of foreign teams coming in and building feeder clubs. We can only hope that CPL brass is smart enough to use those lessons for the betterment of the professional game here, and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

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12 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I'd agree but take it one step further... we don't even have a surface to judge yet.  We literally have a rumour of a club.  For all we know the CPL will bend the rules and allow them to bring their entire academy over with 3 Canadian journeymen sprinkled in...  

Now obviously that won't happen but it's important to balance a worst-case scenario with the best-case scenarios that seem to be dancing around our optimistic heads.  I'm hopeful that this team can be more original than NYCFC but we really don't know.  If MLS looked back now would they still have brought in City Group?  I have a tough time saying "yes" to that... they now have two "less than ideal" teams in their biggest market with very limited growth potential.  Putting these feeder clubs in major markets was an unbelievably big error on MLS part.. luckily they were able to correct the Chivas USA fiasco and now have a big club with LAFC in it's place.  New York they likely won't be able to fix anytime soon.

I think we have a much more risk-averse scenario with a team coming into Ottawa, as opposed to one of the big cities.  That's about all I really can say confidently on the surface without knowing anything else.    

First, they would never send over B team players as there is not a comparable level. Their B team is in Spanish 2B, which is a higher level than CPL. As I see it, CPL is like a strong Spanish fourth tier or some of the modest level of 2B. Apart from that, they tend to loan out players who need minutes to teams closer to home, like to Spanish 2nd division, just to keep an eye on them. And then, if you wanted a step down, you have the team in Mexico--CPL offers very little to Atlético in terms of player development coming this way. It is just the opposite--I could see them pick up on a talented teen at Ottawa and take him to their academy in Madrid. If it happens every so often, that'd be fine.

The other real risk is about length of committment. I think that as we stand, the Mediapro deal establishes the span. Or at least most of it. So does the World Cup in Canada, as a reference point a bit close. It is hard to come into CPL short term when you have mid to longer term guarantees, it is misthinking the investment. 

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4 hours ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

 

And what are Valour doing that you object to  ?  Valour averaged over 5000 fans per game and I guarantee had the biggest merch sales in the league.

 

He won’t answer you. I have noticed that almost without exception, the last sentence in every paragraph in every post that he writes is a veiled backhand at something CPL related. Seriously, spot check a few of his posts! Sometimes, the front of the paragraph is even interesting or informative, but I always know that the gut punch is coming with the last sentence. When challenged, he either ignores it or tell us to go get some manners. 

I looked in the settings for “Filter the last sentence in every paragraph from a specific sender”, but that’s not a feature. 

Edited by IAmPappy

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37 minutes ago, IAmPappy said:

He won’t answer you. I have noticed that almost without exception, the last sentence in every paragraph in every post that he writes is a veiled backhand at something CPL related. Seriously, spot check a few of his posts! Sometimes, the front of the paragraph is even interesting or informative, but I always know that the gut punch is coming with the last sentence. When challenged, he either ignores it or tell us to go get some manners. 

I looked in the setting for “Filter the last sentence in every paragraph from a specific sender”, but that’s not a feature. 

"Would be good to see an academy system starting in Ottawa through the Atletico Madrdid angle because the rest of CanPL seems to be shying away from doing that for fear of upsetting youth clubs."

"This should really be all about building up the quality of the soccer as quickly as possible rather than being a make work project for second rate players and coaches that can't get hired anywhere else."

Lol

 

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So nobody spotted Clanachan in Madrid? No countdown on the canpl.ca website? No media telling us when there is going to be an exciting announcement about soccer in Ottawa? I think last week the word was that we would get a reveal on Monday or Tuesday. It didn't happen Monday, and doesn't look like it will happen on Tuesday :(

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3 minutes ago, Kent said:

So nobody spotted Clanachan in Madrid? No countdown on the canpl.ca website? No media telling us when there is going to be an exciting announcement about soccer in Ottawa? I think last week the word was that we would get a reveal on Monday or Tuesday. It didn't happen Monday, and doesn't look like it will happen on Tuesday :(

Silence everywhere. It's a quiet day so far.

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34 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

As we have learned in Ottawa with the Light Rail Transit, better an announcement when things are actually really ready to go than bowing to public pressure and saying that something works when it actually doesn't. 

Ottawa CPL club to be announced after they win their first championship!

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On 1/25/2020 at 9:49 PM, Lofty said:

Questions for you Al:

1. If you thought that the presence of MLS franchises in the 3 biggest Canadian markets would reduce the chances of CPL survival, would you still be in favour of keeping those MLS franchises?

2. If it were apparent that the presence of those 3 MLS franchises would be fatal to CPL, which would you choose: CPL and no MLS franchises in Canada; or no CPL and 3 MLS franchises in Canada? 

Sorry Doug, only saw this now - wasn’t avoiding your questions.

1. At first thought, yes.  For the CPL to be successful, it needs to stand on its own.  Forcing the MLS teams to join the CPL would kill off a large percentage of their fans and revenue for the short term and I’m not sure if it benefits soccer in this country in the long term either.

2. If given the hard choice, CPL to survive - and that’s more heart than head.  But I don’t see this as an “either or” question.  

EDIT: just re-read my response; there may be an inconsistency between answers.  As you can tell, I’m not so quick to dismiss MLS.

Edited by JamboAl

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Pretty clear that timeline previous to christmas and the fixture list have been held back because this is going on. That doesnt bother me. Sometimes I think the CPL needs to learn to not make the promises though. 

Its widespread that this is happening. They are just closing the details. Just because we are day after some journalists predicted it will be announced doesn't mean the sky is falling down. I mean it could be but there are probably not a whole load of journalist sitting on news it's not happening, not wanting to be the person that ruins everyone's week.

If there was a whiff of this not happening journalists would have been all over it. Nothing sells or gets out quicker than negative news. 

More likely the CPL has told people to wait (30-60 minimum), journalists included.

I think sometimes we forget and certainly arent privy to the amount of work going on behind the scenes. The CPL arent just working on this season but have plates spinning and markers likely for at least the next 5-10 years. It's not like any other league. They are doing an incredible job all things considered. I dont mind cutting them some slack on a few things like this. 

Just chill. It happen. Just not as instantly gratifying as we all want!

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3 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Sorry Doug, only saw this now - wasn’t avoiding your questions.

1. At first thought, yes.  For the CPL to be successful, it needs to stand on its own.  Forcing the MLS teams to join the CPL would kill off a large percentage of their fans and revenue for the short term and I’m not sure if it benefits soccer in this country in the long term either.

2. If given the hard choice, CPL to survive - and that’s more heart than head.  But I don’t see this as an “either or” question.  

EDIT: just re-read my response; there may be an inconsistency between answers.  As you can tell, I’m not so quick to dismiss MLS.

No worries Al, I'm sure you can see my point: having Canada's three biggest markets taken away from CPL inevitably weakens it.

I am not suggesting that anybody should be forced to do anything but I'm not sure that the CMNT would be weakened if the MLS franchises currently located in Canada left. CPL would certainly be stronger in all respects, including level of play, and Canadians who are too good for it would still be wanted by clubs at a higher level, whether MLS or somewhere else.

So, with the advent of CPL, I see MLS franchises in Canada as a net negative for Canadian football. 

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