Jump to content

CPL new teams speculation


Recommended Posts

34 minutes ago, Initial B said:

It seems like a no-brainer that Ligue 1 teams would want teams in Quebec. French Language and foot in the North American Market should make it very attractive to them. That said, I think it's a little hypocritical to not allow the Canadian MLS clubs to do the same thing.

Not really.. these clubs are massively bigger than any MLS club and offer a window to a much higher level.  I'm sure CPL wouldn't be as open to a club like Eibar or Nantes operating a team.  But even then I think clubs like Eibar or Nantes would offer a ton more than TFC/Vancouver/Montreal, while also not indirectly competing.  These European sides won't care how big/good their side gets here ... a MLS run team would quickly put an end to any momentum that saw them compete with their first team.

It's a big difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Will be interesting to see if they lighten up on having teams that are affiliated to MLS franchises eventually as opposed to outright reserve teams. Problem has been that people don't seem to grasp that there can be a difference.

And you don't seem to grasp that they aren't interested in affiliations, they want to dump reserve teams in the league

Stop being so f'n stupid with your posts

Edited by Ansem
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is such a straw man argument.  Van dropped their team (they say) because it lost millions and there was no big benefit.  Plenty on this board ridiculed montreal's team as a "dumpster fire" and they were the first to close shop.  TFC dropped its team down to lower level USL-1.  But the same old crew seem to think the 3 MLS clubs are pining away for teams in the CPL.  How many MLS/CPL loans were there last year??  How many this year??  If they were desperate for a place for the fringe roster guys to play they would be loaning them out as opposed to getting back into the reserve team business they just got out of.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

  If they were desperate for a place for the fringe roster guys to play they would be loaning them out as opposed to getting back into the reserve team business they just got out of.  

I think they actually did want to loan out players to the CPL, but the CPL was terrified of looking like a reserve league in year 1.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Initial B said:

It seems like a no-brainer that Ligue 1 teams would want teams in Quebec. French Language and foot in the North American Market should make it very attractive to them. That said, I think it's a little hypocritical to not allow the Canadian MLS clubs to do the same thing.

I posted this in the Ottawa CPL thread a week or two ago (in relation to the rumoured Atletico Madrid connection) but it seems like much of it equally applicable here.  Rather than type it out again it is a copy and paste because my thinking hasn't changed.

---------------------------------------

I think there is a massive difference between being seen as a developmental D2 for MLS, and being seen as a lower tier league with a relationship to one of the best leagues in the world.

MLS is, at best, in the 3rd tier of world footy.  I consider 1st tier to be Spain, England, Germany, Italy.  France, Netherlands, Belgium and one or two more are what I consider tier 2.  Lots of tier 3 clubs.  Leagues like Portugal and Scotland with a couple of huge teams and the rest as makeweights tend to straddle  my somewhat arbitrary taxonomy.

I mention this because there is a huge difference in terms of the perception with respect to the leagues you openly declare yourself subordinate to.  For CPL, being openly 2nd class when it comes to la Liga is really no surprise to anyone.  Being a development league for MLS is something entirely different.  And I know that MLS is a stronger league top to bottom.  But openly declaring  yourself as an inferior feeder league to what is, ultimately, not a very strong league would be detrimental to what CPL is trying to achieve.  Part of CPL's success will depend on diverting national attention from the 3 MLS clubs.  That is hard to do if you have embedded subordination into the very DNA of your league structure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I don't think player loans are an issue.  As pointed out, they occurred, so the idea that the league was "terrified" seems to be significantly overstating it.

How many actually occurred? I didn't follow that aspect closely enough to know for sure. David Norman Jr when the season was nearly over is the only one that springs to mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When TFC loaned the 3 out to Fury, Iassco was influential into getting Telfer to Y9,  instead of Fury.  So any kind of idea that TFC wanted to send them there and Y9/CPL didnt want them (or at least some) is baloney.  Both montreal and TFC had plenty of loanees out.  Maybe not knowing the level of play in year one CPL made them leary of sending kids here.  But I dont think anyone or any league is going to be spooked by 1-2 guys per squad. 

https://northerntribune.ca/isacco-toronto-fc-loan-players/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Bison44 said:

When TFC loaned the 3 out to Fury, Iassco was influential into getting Telfer to Y9,  instead of Fury.  So any kind of idea that TFC wanted to send them there and Y9/CPL didnt want them (or at least some) is baloney.  Both montreal and TFC had plenty of loanees out.  Maybe not knowing the level of play in year one CPL made them leary of sending kids here.  But I dont think anyone or any league is going to be spooked by 1-2 guys per squad. 

https://northerntribune.ca/isacco-toronto-fc-loan-players/

Ok, so they loaned out 3 but only 1 to the CPL? And Montreal's loans went to Ottawa in the USL. That's sort of proving my point.

Agreed that no league should be spooked by 1 or 2 guys per squad. But its looking like it was 4 guys total, one of whom was a very late season loan.

Edited by Watchmen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Cblake said:

How are loans handled in the CPL. can the league block them? I wonder what would happen if a CPL team all of sudden went down to the path of pursuing cheap labour by getting players on loan from MLS teams?

There was a rumour that no CPL club can have more than 2 loans from the same team so as not to appear as a farm/reserve team or minor league affiliate. Hopefully this is true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Cblake said:

How are loans handled in the CPL. can the league block them? I wonder what would happen if a CPL team all of sudden went down to the path of pursuing cheap labour by getting players on loan from MLS teams?

Not sure if there is a hard limit, but I suspect the CPL brass would be fine with a reasonable number of loans spread across the league (I.e. not indicative of a single team having some special subordinate relationship).  
 

In terms of the broader question, being seen as subordinate to a major European league is categorically different than being explicitly viewed as inferior to MLS.  MLS diehards may not like it, but the success of CPL will depend, in part, on its ability to draw fans away from the big three.  This is especially true outside the 3 big urban centres where attracting fans to more local markets will be key.  That task becomes significantly harder if CPL self-identifies as a second class minor league affiliate of MLS.   That kind of counterproductive identity is not established by simple player loans (which happen in leagues around the world) but it would be clearly established if MLS B teams were allowed in.   

It may be unfair, but I honestly think anyone who rejects this line of thinking (or pretends to) is not looking at the issue objectively.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Not sure if there is a hard limit, but I suspect the CPL brass would be fine with a reasonable number of loans spread across the league (I.e. not indicative of a single team having some special subordinate relationship).  
 

In terms of the broader question, being seen as subordinate to a major European league is categorically different than being explicitly viewed as inferior to MLS.  MLS diehards may not like it, but the success of CPL will depend, in part, on its ability to draw fans away from the big three.  This is especially true outside the 3 big urban centres where attracting fans to more local markets will be key.  That task becomes significantly harder if CPL self-identifies as a second class minor league affiliate of MLS.   That kind of counterproductive identity is not established by simple player loans (which happen in leagues around the world) but it would be clearly established if MLS B teams were allowed in.   

It may be unfair, but I honestly think anyone who rejects this line of thinking (or pretends to) is not looking at the issue objectively.  

I am not sure if that is the case because to really have a shot a drawing fans away from the big 3 will mean having teams directly in those markets. Soccer for most in this country is an in stadium experience thus going to games. MLS has not typically done well on tv in this country and the CPL growth is limited by the fact that they are on a paid streaming service. I do not see some big head to head thing going on between the two leagues. The levels are quite different but there is nothing wrong with that considering the economic differences and objectives. Even considering all this, I am 110% sure someone will think they can find success with a Toronto proper CPL team playing out of Lamport or something like that. Who knows if that can be successful, that is a question for a different day. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me there are two keys to ownership from another club.

1. You can't compete in the same structure, for example, the Canadian Championship. If TFC because licenced under the USSF similar to Cardiff/Swansea than it may work.

2. The club must have intentions to be a separate entity. This doesn't mean they can't loan players or have a working relationship, but that can't be the intention of the club. Athletico don't need a Canpl club to delevop their players. They are a world class club, they loan their players out where they are best suited just like any other club.

Athletico's intensions are likely #1 branding, #2 growing the business (diversification, long term growth, etc...), and maybe #3 a way to get their feet on the ground in Canada to scout talent. Realistically, soccer talent is the last of their worries, a club like Athletico is not looking at Ottawa to generate first team players. It is a business investment, and the Ottawa club managers (hunt) will be looking more for developing talent to sell on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

Ok, so they loaned out 3 but only 1 to the CPL? And Montreal's loans went to Ottawa in the USL. That's sort of proving my point.

Agreed that no league should be spooked by 1 or 2 guys per squad. But its looking like it was 4 guys total, one of whom was a very late season loan.

How many went to Ottawa? 3? So that would be 4 of 7 or more than 50%. Doesn’t really seem like there’s an issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Cblake said:

How are loans handled in the CPL. can the league block them? I wonder what would happen if a CPL team all of sudden went down to the path of pursuing cheap labour by getting players on loan from MLS teams?

Don't think it needs to be overly complicated creating terms which discourage a large number of loans occuring, especially from MLS sides.  Require the loan to be until the end of the CPL season and require the player's actual salary to count against the teams salary cap.

The 1st discourages the appearance of CPL being used as a reserve league, the 2nd mitigates the advantages of player subsidies coming down from above as it were, creating that parent/dependent dynamic.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Cblake said:

I am not sure if that is the case because to really have a shot a drawing fans away from the big 3 will mean having teams directly in those markets. Soccer for most in this country is an in stadium experience thus going to games. MLS has not typically done well on tv in this country and the CPL growth is limited by the fact that they are on a paid streaming service. I do not see some big head to head thing going on between the two leagues. The levels are quite different but there is nothing wrong with that considering the economic differences and objectives. Even considering all this, I am 110% sure someone will think they can find success with a Toronto proper CPL team playing out of Lamport or something like that. Who knows if that can be successful, that is a question for a different day. 

Not exactly. I’m not in an MLS market but I bought gear for every Canadian team, watched almost all of their games and travelled for live matches. I didn’t do any of that last season and instead spent all of my money and effort on CPL related stuff. It’s not much but I’m sure there’s a lot of people like me out there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...