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CPL new teams speculation


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2 hours ago, Mikmacdo said:

The government just have both Waterloo and Laurier 2.5 mill each for stadium upgrades. 

They were also looking for Canadian Infrastructure bank funding. I don't think there was any confirmation for that.

So the stadium upgrades are still up in the air.

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11 hours ago, Mikmacdo said:

The government just have both Waterloo and Laurier 2.5 mill each for stadium upgrades. 

That's out of a total projected cost of $50 million apparently:

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/9658296-waterloo-commits-5-million-to-university-rec-facilities/

...Wilfrid Laurier University will receive $2.5 million for its more than $50-million upgrade to University Stadium.

Both projects will be submitted to the Investing in Canada Infrastructure Program, a cost-shared infrastructure funding program between the federal government, provinces, territories, municipalities and other applicants.

The universities will take the lead on the applications, which are due by Nov. 12...

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot
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On 12/13/2019 at 10:44 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

...and the text quoted above provides no firm assurance where 2021 is concerned, so maybe he has learned his lesson to a certain extent. Ottawa under OSEG would have been the easy one to do to reach eight and was probably the domino they were expecting to fall, but OSEG appear to have reached the conclusion that soccer is a money losing proposition at Landsdowne Park and not worth the aggravation. If there really is a $9 million expansion fee involved over and above the expense of putting in pop-up stadiums at venues like the Langley Events Centre or Prairieland in Saskatoon things could take a while and all the rhetoric about pro/rel by 2026 probably shouldn't be taken too seriously. Nice if it happens but don't hold your breath.

Based on everything I’ve heard CPL and CONCACAF screwed up the Ottawa situation. Had they sat tight for another year it would have happened, Fury to the CPL. No need to rehash that, what’s done is done. But what concerns me is if another group wants to come into Ottawa, Landsdowne is the best venue. Will it make sense to pay rent to OSEG 15 times a year?  Will a new group be able to pay the $8-$9 million dollar start up fee and run a business that can make money?

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7 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

Based on everything I’ve heard CPL and CONCACAF screwed up the Ottawa situation. Had they sat tight for another year it would have happened, Fury to the CPL. No need to rehash that...

The why bring up this bullshit about everything you've "heard"?

fall over waynes world GIF

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4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

To be fair to the guy, the second part of his post, is very much in the now. It remains to be seen if the numbers will ever make sense at Lansdowne for any group other than OSEG.

That’s what any potential ownership has to weigh. If the Fury were losing money on the team and receiving salary help from MLS squads plus not paying rent it will make it tough for someone to make money going in there. I understand salaries are lower in the CPL. But looking for a team to plunk down over $8 million is prohibitive. CPL will have to lower their asking price. 

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4 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

That’s what any potential ownership has to weigh. If the Fury were losing money on the team and receiving salary help from MLS squads plus not paying rent it will make it tough for someone to make money going in there. I understand salaries are lower in the CPL. But looking for a team to plunk down over $8 million is prohibitive. CPL will have to lower their asking price. 

The Fury weren't paying rent? Do you know this or are you speculating? Considering the partnerships are not the same across all OSEG ventures I would suspect one limited partnership was paying another limited partnership.

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32 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

The Fury weren't paying rent? Do you know this or are you speculating? Considering the partnerships are not the same across all OSEG ventures I would suspect one limited partnership was paying another limited partnership.

Well obviously one entity was paying the other. In the end it was moving it from one hand to another. I have no idea what the number is, if it is high rent or a lower number. Either way it’s one less revenue stream for a new CPL team. 

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@Ottawafan does have a legitimate point about not just an expansion team in Ottawa but any team wanting to come in now and that's the income statement especially if the entrance fee is somewhere north of $5 M (there is speculation that it could be higher).  How much would you have to book into revenues each year not to lose a significant wad of cash - and I'm still a bit hesitant about the long term viability of the One Soccer deal.  Not to be negative but I'm an accountant by profession.

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On 1/2/2020 at 9:37 AM, JamboAl said:

@Ottawafan does have a legitimate point about not just an expansion team in Ottawa but any team wanting to come in now and that's the income statement especially if the entrance fee is somewhere north of $5 M (there is speculation that it could be higher).  How much would you have to book into revenues each year not to lose a significant wad of cash - and I'm still a bit hesitant about the long term viability of the One Soccer deal.  Not to be negative but I'm an accountant by profession.

OSEG is looking to attract more people to Landsdowne. With Fury gone, that’s roughly 15 events they need to make up. For arguments sake say they need to replace 75,000 fans. Basketball and rugby start up in 2020 and 2021. Throw in a few extra concerts and they can easily replace those 75,000 people. 
If a soccer team comes back to Ottawa within the next year or two, then they will probably double the 75,000 number. Not sure if a CPL team will draw more than the Fury, but it’s possible. 
From an OSEG perspective they like this scenario. But from an owner of a CPL team, will it make sense financially for them, paying rent and losing out on a percentage of the concessions?

 

Edited by Ottawafan
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The league has been constructed in such a way as it's not gate dependent for now. I obviously don't know how much rent is involved, but you'd think those extra 15 days of concessions would be attractive enough to the operator to keep their demands reasonable.

I think the CPL played their cards well are definitely set-up to drop a club in Ottawa in 2021. I wouldn't necessarily want to see Red Bull Ottawa given their MLS presence, but Atletico might be an interesting option. Whatever, if they go foreign, I hope it's a strategic partner that can help grow the league's profile.

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Like I said OSEG will be able replace the amount of people coming to Landsdowne with rugby, basketball and concerts. That won’t be a problem. Adding soccer dates would be a bonus. 
If the league isn’t as dependent on gates to support their teams that’s good. Haven’t payed any attention to the CPL so I can’t say what type of fans they get to their games. 

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1 hour ago, Ottawafan said:

Adding soccer dates would be a bonus. 

Keep telling yourself that 

Lansdowne Park deal under 'strategic review' with lacklustre financial returns

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/lansdowne-park-deal-under-strategic-review-with-lacklustre-financial-returns/amp

Spin this all you want but OSEG getting extra soccer games isn't a "bonus" but a "necessity".

OSEG wants a soccer team at TD Place, just not managed by them.

Edited by Ansem
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39 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Keep telling yourself that 

Lansdowne Park deal under 'strategic review' with lacklustre financial returns

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/lansdowne-park-deal-under-strategic-review-with-lacklustre-financial-returns/amp

Spin this all you want but OSEG getting extra soccer games isn't a "bonus" but a "necessity".

OSEG wants a soccer team at TD Place, just not managed by them.

They want people at Landsdowne. With basketball and rugby on its way, they are replacing the Fury. Not sure why you’re so offended by the fact soccer would be a bonus if they can find someone to pay the $9M expansion fee. OSEG are businessmen; they’ll take rent money from a CPL team if the league finds someone to pay that. 

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35 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

They want people at Landsdowne. With basketball and rugby on its way, they are replacing the Fury. Not sure why you’re so offended by the fact soccer would be a bonus if they can find someone to pay the $9M expansion fee. OSEG are businessmen; they’ll take rent money from a CPL team if the league finds someone to pay that. 

You sound negative about another group but OSEG having a club there.

I'm not offended, I'm just puzzled at the over glorification of OSEG as good managers when evidence shows they are either just ok or mediocre 

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4 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

Not negative about pro soccer in Ottawa. More realistic about the situation; the financial hurdles in front of a new owner could be an impediment. I get many here are anti OSEG/Fury but the past is the past, let it go. Try focusing on the future and the betterment of soccer in this country. 

We are and we are optimistic about Ottawa but your beating a dead horse with your financial hurdles theories. If an ownership is that worried about possible difficulties, the league will most likely be looking for someone else.

We just had a season without Ottawa and it didn't broke the league. The league can afford to wait for the right ownership with the right plan

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4 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

Not negative about pro soccer in Ottawa. More realistic about the situation; the financial hurdles in front of a new owner could be an impediment. I get many here are anti OSEG/Fury...

Some on here used to post about Eugene Melnyk building a soccer stadium at Lebreton Flats for CanPL even though there was zero evidence to support it. They are not going to be swayed by rational arguments because they have a faith based approach to this.

They want an Ottawa expansion team for 2021 and need it to keep their set of beliefs about the league intact so they will dream up a set of reasons as to why something like Red Bull Ottawa is about to happen. The rest of us who view things more skeptically than that will be viewed as heretics and agents of Satan/MLS or whatever for expressing doubt rather than faith...

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5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Some on here used to post about Eugene Melnyk building a soccer stadium at Lebreton Flats for CanPL even though there was zero evidence to support it. They are not going to be swayed by rational arguments because they have a faith based approach to this.

They want an Ottawa expansion team for 2021 and need it to keep their set of beliefs about the league intact so they will dream up a set of reasons as to why something like Red Bull Ottawa is about to happen. The rest of us who view things more skeptically than that will be viewed as heretics and agents of Satan/MLS or whatever for expressing doubt rather than faith...

Holy smokes do people actually think Melnyk was going to be involved with a CPL team?  First off never going to happen. Second of all even if he did somehow con someone else into building and paying the $9M expansion fee, he is one of the last humans you would want around your team or league. 
Its somewhat comical but sad at the same time to see people who were so gung ho about being anti Fury and hoping they fold. And now when you bring up a potential roadblock but not an insurmountable one, it’s like I’m attacking them. You see the same mentality from the MAGA types. 
I will say this, there is a foreign club doing their due on an expansion team in Ottawa. They have done more than just kick the tires. Haven’t heard Red Bulls name attached to this. 

Edited by Ottawafan
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5 hours ago, Ansem said:

We are and we are optimistic about Ottawa but your beating a dead horse with your financial hurdles theories. If an ownership is that worried about possible difficulties, the league will most likely be looking for someone else.

We just had a season without Ottawa and it didn't broke the league. The league can afford to wait for the right ownership with the right plan

It’s not about beating a dead horse. In a league that charged a million or so to be a part of, they will need to justify a $9M expansion fee one year later. See anyone joining this year?  Anyone at this point on track for 2021?
I’m glad the league didn’t go broke in its first year. I’ve been involved in this game a long time and want opportunities for young Canadians to play and develop here. I have always been about what’s best for the development of the game in Canada. I don’t feel the need to tear down others who are willing to put their time and money on the line to advance the game. But your mentality of our way or the highway is what is wrong with soccer in Canada. 

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2 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

Holy smokes do people actually think Melnyk was going to be involved with a CPL team?  First off never going to happen. Second of all even if he did somehow con someone else into building and paying the $9M expansion fee, he is one of the last humans you would want around your team or league. 
Its somewhat comical but sad at the same time to see people who were so gung ho about being anti Fury and hoping they fold. And now when you bring up a potential roadblock but not an insurmountable one, it’s like I’m attacking them. You see the same mentality from the MAGA types. 
I will say this, there is a foreign club doing their due on an expansion team in Ottawa. They have done more than just kick the tires. Haven’t heard Red Bulls name attached to this. 

I would take Ozzie's posts with a huge grain of salt. 

He continuously rails against the imaginary boogeyman on this site. 

Most people here were hoping that the Fury would make the jump to CPL. 

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2 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

In a league that charged a million or so to be a part of, they will need to justify a $9M expansion fee one year later.

You seem fixated on the $9M price tag. I’m curious about your rationale/method for valuation of a new club, other than “it was only $1M last year”.

Based on my back-of-the-envelope assumptions, I would be much more concerned if the fee was anything under $3M. 

Edited by IAmPappy
Valuation, not validating.
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