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CPL new teams speculation

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17 hours ago, JamboAl said:

The last thing this country needs is the tribalism of an English vs French derby in Montreal.  If I were the CSA, I wouldn’t sanction any club based on this identity and neither should the CPL.  

Personal opinion: I would quit supporting club football in Canada if that were to happen.  There’s too much of that crap in places around the world.

I get your point, I don't disagree, I was just saying that if we want derbys, we need a point of distinction. I don't say we should do it, just that it would build some rivalries

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2 minutes ago, mtlsab said:

I get your point, I don't disagree, I was just saying that if we want derbys, we need a point of distinction. I don't say we should do it, just that it would build some rivalries

Perfect.  The comment wasn't directed at you specifically (quoted you unfairly), but just a general point.  I've been to many a European derby in my lifetime.  All had amazing atmospheres but some of them brought religion/sectarianism or identity politics into it.  Just saying to keep that stuff over there; this country doesn't need that poison.    

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2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Perfect.  The comment wasn't directed at you specifically (quoted you unfairly), but just a general point.  I've been to many a European derby in my lifetime.  All had amazing atmospheres but some of them brought religion/sectarianism or identity politics into it.  Just saying to keep that stuff over there; this country doesn't need that poison.    

 

11 minutes ago, mtlsab said:

A lot of pro clubs around the world are built over an ethnicity, religion, social class or polical view. This type of things enhance the rivalry. But on the other hand, it can lead to some dangerous situation where someone can't even wear his jersey on the other side of the city!

 

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19 hours ago, JamboAl said:

The last thing this country needs is the tribalism ...

You do understand that the foundation of football the world over, what makes it the most popular sport on the planet, is largely due to the tribalism built into the game? Without tribalism spectator sport would not exist. There has to be some form of "us versus them" to sustain interest.

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6 minutes ago, ted said:

You do understand that the foundation of football the world over, what makes it the most popular sport on the planet, is largely due to the tribalism built into the game? Without tribalism spectator sport would not exist. There has to be some form of "us versus them" to sustain interest.

I'm all for passion and even a bit of hostility (I still have this Honduran issue built up over years).  All traditional clubs have a history - I get that completely because at the time, it was meant to accomplish an identity...my club has its own and I am proud of it.  But I don't want a CPL team, for example, in the Saguenay that will only be for "pure laine Quebecois(ness)" or a club in Red Deer that is set up as a symbol of Western separatism.  It's very unlikely, but this is what I'm talking about.

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1 minute ago, The Real Marc said:

Yup. Might as well go back to having ethnic clubs. And that will look nice and lower league.

Yup, it is a balance and the line has to be drawn somewhere. I simply had to make it clear that the statement totally dismissing tribalism is ignoring reality.

In the specific case of Montreal, I don't see an "English" and a "French" team crossing that line but then I don't see those as ethnicities in this context. My perception of Montreal (limited I admit since I last visited as a teenager over 30 years ago) is that both language "tribes", like the city as a whole, are fairly cosmopolitan.

Now, if the "English" team actually went all "England 4 Evah!", Union-Jack-waving, etc, that would be an issue I suppose but I think you can be the team of English-speakers without being that. Likewise the "French" team.

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5 hours ago, JamboAl said:

I'm all for passion and even a bit of hostility (I still have this Honduran issue built up over years).  All traditional clubs have a history - I get that completely because at the time, it was meant to accomplish an identity...my club has its own and I am proud of it.  But I don't want a CPL team, for example, in the Saguenay that will only be for "pure laine Quebecois(ness)" or a club in Red Deer that is set up as a symbol of Western separatism.  It's very unlikely, but this is what I'm talking about.

More importantly what will become of Cavalry and the Eddies after Wexit?

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4 hours ago, ted said:

Yup, it is a balance and the line has to be drawn somewhere. I simply had to make it clear that the statement totally dismissing tribalism is ignoring reality.

In the specific case of Montreal, I don't see an "English" and a "French" team crossing that line but then I don't see those as ethnicities in this context. My perception of Montreal (limited I admit since I last visited as a teenager over 30 years ago) is that both language "tribes", like the city as a whole, are fairly cosmopolitan.

Now, if the "English" team actually went all "England 4 Evah!", Union-Jack-waving, etc, that would be an issue I suppose but I think you can be the team of English-speakers without being that. Likewise the "French" team.

It could very quickly spiral out of control. Maybe eventually it also becomes separatists vs whatever the opposite of separatist is, and who knows what else. I've had a brush with the old firm in Scotland and heard of many others, and we definitely don't need that kind of extra baggage that a rivalry like that one brings. Even in Scotland there are lots of people that want that baggage put to rest.

In my mind the only (loose) divisions should be geographical.

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2 minutes ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

Which cities will get the three rumoured expansion clubs in 2021 ?  My picks:

Fraser Valley

Kitchener-Waterloo

Quebec City

I hope QC gets one for sure. I think that it’s a good sized city that doesn’t have another pro team of any sort that I’m aware of. It seems like a great place for a club. 

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52 minutes ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

Which cities will get the three rumoured expansion clubs in 2021 ?  My picks:

Fraser Valley

Kitchener-Waterloo

Quebec City

Somewhere in Quebec. I don’t know if it will be Bunbury’s team but Quebec needs to be In that group if 3 clubs are announced. 

I hope Saskatchewan gets off the ground for 2021. 

Lastly, Ottawa! 

Having those 3 kicking off in 2021 would cover the major gaps without a CPL footprint. 

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1 hour ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

Which cities will get the three rumoured expansion clubs in 2021 ?  My picks:

Fraser Valley

Kitchener-Waterloo

Quebec City

Thanks for this.  This is my thinking as well. 

Remember the clue is they seem to have stadiums lined up. 

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How many CPL clubs can Canada handle? Is the player pool of talented Canadians large enough to support (insert number here) teams? Ideally, I would like to see some east-west balance to reduce travel costs and to create rivalries. Quebec City, Ottawa, Saskatoon, Fraser Valley, and ????? would make for a 12 team league. Should that be the target and by when? How high should an expansion fee be? It needs to be enough to reward the original seven teams, but not so high that it discourages or handicaps new clubs. Cheers!

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6 hours ago, Ian Kennett said:

How many CPL clubs can Canada handle? Is the player pool of talented Canadians large enough to support (insert number here) teams? Ideally, I would like to see some east-west balance to reduce travel costs and to create rivalries. Quebec City, Ottawa, Saskatoon, Fraser Valley, and ????? would make for a 12 team league. Should that be the target and by when? How high should an expansion fee be? It needs to be enough to reward the original seven teams, but not so high that it discourages or handicaps new clubs. Cheers!

I think 3 MLS and 12 CPL just might be the sweet spot for Canadian soccer for the medium term. If 15 full-time professional clubs were supported by 4 semi-pro leagues (PLSQ with added Maritime teams, L1O, Prairie, BC), we'd be very well-placed to be a CONCACAF force consistently.

MLS - TFC, Impact, Whitecaps

CPL - HFX, QC, Metro Mtl, Ottawa, Y9, Forge, Valour, Sask, Cavalry, FCEd, Fraser Valley, Pacific

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10 hours ago, Ams1984 said:

I hope QC gets one for sure. I think that it’s a good sized city that doesn’t have another pro team of any sort that I’m aware of. It seems like a great place for a club. 

Only if there is a viable stadium solution on the first bit that somebody is willing to pay for and that could also be the main stumbling block in K/W, if the stadium upgrade by Laurier is going to have a sewn in gridiron and is not being done with a pro soccer tenant in mind. Even York 9 could have issues if/when York Lions stadium gets renovated. Life was easier in the original CSL era when U-Sports gridiron teams still played on grass.

If Montreal/Laval and Fraser Valley were going to happen with the existing stadium possibilities, it's difficult to see why they wouldn't have been launched or at least been announced by now. If they are not, it could take a while. 

On the surface Saskatoon is the obvious one, but there have been rumours on Reddit that Joe Belan had a major falling out with the CanPL investors and that would explain why the SkSSS was pretty much ignored by the league in social media terms.

I'd be very surprised if an eighth team doesn't emerge for 2021, because the optics of not having one by then would definitely not be good for the league, but on the flip side I suspect they will take their time to try to find close to optimal stadium solutions so they can have more Halifax type scenarios unfolding. 

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12 hours ago, Ian Kennett said:

How many CPL clubs can Canada handle? Is the player pool of talented Canadians large enough to support (insert number here) teams?

Canada has a giant pool of players.  One this this CPL season has shown is how many people slip through the cracks.  
 

Because we’re adding teams over time it allows the player pool to adjust to a certain extent.

I suspect that we can get to 10-12 teams no problem without diluting the product.  I think more than say 14 or 15 and we will be digging pretty deep.

Lets see how many people the BC League 1 develop and maybe a Alberta League 1 as well.  

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Yes, Cavalry proves this point. Plenty of former Foothills players playing at the amateur level that are clearly good enough for pro. What the hell was Carducci doing at the PDL level?

Not to mention that PDL has had other Canadian  teams perform well, KW United and Thunder Bay Chill. CPL was sorely needed. Plenty of promising players were falling through the cracks.

15 teams seems to be the maximum to me. But who knows. With more pro teams, more and more youth players will consider staying in soccer rather then choosing other sports.

You can now dream of Canada becoming a real soccer nation.

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7 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Only if there is a viable stadium solution on the first bit that somebody is willing to pay for and that could also be the main stumbling block in K/W, if the stadium upgrade by Laurier is going to have a sewn in gridiron and is not being done with a pro soccer tenant in mind. Even York 9 could have issues if/when York Lions stadium gets renovated. Life was easier in the original CSL era when U-Sports gridiron teams still played on grass.

If Montreal/Laval and Fraser Valley were going to happen with the existing stadium possibilities, it's difficult to see why they wouldn't have been launched or at least been announced by now. If they are not, it could take a while. 

On the surface Saskatoon is the obvious one, but there have been rumours on Reddit that Joe Belan had a major falling out with the CanPL investors and that would explain why the SkSSS was pretty much ignored by the league in social media terms.

I'd be very surprised if an eighth team doesn't emerge for 2021, because the optics of not having one by then would definitely not be good for the league, but on the flip side I suspect they will take their time to try to find close to optimal stadium solutions so they can have more Halifax type scenarios unfolding. 

Where do you see this Saskatoon rumour. I don't see it on reddit?

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