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CPL new teams speculation

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And that attitude line, above, is why the guy from the Quebec soccer associated called CanPL very "anglophone". Disrespect doesn't just occur when it is intended.

I would certainly feel disrespected if I was approached by a "national" organization representing a "national" league wanting my participation, and not an iota of that content was presented in my language, which is one of the national languages. It screams "we'll care about you ... once you buy into what we're doing." Yeah, I'd be suspicious too.

We can rationalize it away with costs and figures. We can dismiss it by lining it up with ideology. But either way, honestly, it was an amateur move.

And with the MediaPro money, there is zero excuse.

Edited by The Real Marc

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The difference from a corporation on this is that CanPL has been sanctioned by the CSA as the D1 league covering all of Canada and that moves it into the realm of being a national institution. The official languages of Canada are French and English. To not have French given equal status in league branding and on trophies etc is a step beyond what's reasonable from a business practicality standpoint into what is likely to start being interpreted in some quarters as a deliberate and calculated snub.

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2 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

And that attitude line, above, is why the guy from the Quebec soccer associated called CanPL very "anglophone".

I would certainly feel disrespected if I was approached by a "national" organization representing a "national" league wanting my participation, and not an iota of that content was presented in my language, which is one of the national languages.

We can rationalize it away with costs and figures. We can dismiss it by lining it up with ideology. But either way, honestly, it's was an amateur move and does not look good or professional on the league.

And with the MediaPro money, there is zero excuse.

An easily avoidable growing pain.

So, should Chinese Canadians feel disrespected because CPL does not provide Chinese content? Or do they have to wait for a government decree that Chinese is an "official" language before they feel disrespected?

As a matter of practicality, Vancouver International airport displays departures and arrivals in Chinese, so there is certainly a significant Chinese population in B.C.

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For some context here.. there is an actual debate happening in Vancouver because there are people who think it is fine to just display Mandarin(Chinese) language on signs, buildings whatever. There was a guy who had to sue his strata because they refused to hold meetings in English. Often people point to Quebec as a reason why people don't have to speak English or display english communication. People in BC are very ignorant towards Quebec. They really don't understand the situation or the laws. French is a recognized official language in Canada along with English. French should be on the trophy even though for someone in BC that may seem to open a huge can of worms

Edited by SpursFlu

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I think most reasonable people would not expect the CPL to have absolutely every piece of content in French, or allow every single employee to work in the language of their choice (you know, Federal Govt. level stuff). It's recognized that it's a start up that needs to allocate their money in a judicious way. There is low hanging fruit however. If you have a Championship trophy with no French, or if you go to the web page and choose 'French' and are still faced with titles in English and a bizarre mix of Franglais, then it just makes them look amateur and it feels like they don't care. It doesn't seem like it should be so hard.

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13 minutes ago, Lofty said:

So, should Chinese Canadians feel disrespected because CPL does not provide Chinese content? Or do they have to wait for a government decree that Chinese is an "official" language before they feel disrespected?

As a matter of practicality, Vancouver International airport displays departures and arrivals in Chinese, so there is certainly a significant Chinese population in B.C.

Well it is up to anyone to decide whether, when and where to feel disrespected, of course.

But to equate the lack of French in our national soccer league to a lack of Chinese sort of proves that guy's point about anglophonism, no? French and Mandarin are not equivalent in Canada.

I would certainly encourage the league to consider whether and how broadcasting in other languages could increase viewership and attendance, though I doubt it would help at this point in time.

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17 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

Well it is up to anyone to decide whether, when and where to feel disrespected, of course.

But to equate the lack of French in our national soccer league to a lack of Chinese sort of proves that guy's point about anglophonism, no? French and Mandarin are not equivalent in Canada.

I would certainly encourage the league to consider whether and how broadcasting in other languages could increase viewership and attendance, though I doubt it would help at this point in time.

I'm not disputing his point about the CPL being Anglophone. I am questioning whether it should be relevant and saying it will change once French teams join CPL.

I agree that French and Chinese are not equivalent in Canada, but neither are French and English! No matter what the Government says!

I guess the main point here is that Francophones are taking offence where none is intended. I'll just leave it there.

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1 hour ago, Lofty said:

So, should Chinese Canadians feel disrespected because CPL does not provide Chinese content? Or do they have to wait for a government decree that Chinese is an "official" language before they feel disrespected?

As a matter of practicality, Vancouver International airport displays departures and arrivals in Chinese, so there is certainly a significant Chinese population in B.C.

I think there’s a difference between a prevalent foreign language, and an official language of this country. 

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1 hour ago, Lofty said:

I'm not disputing his point about the CPL being Anglophone. I am questioning whether it should be relevant and saying it will change once French teams join CPL.

I agree that French and Chinese are not equivalent in Canada, but neither are French and English! No matter what the Government says!

I guess the main point here is that Francophones are taking offence where none is intended. I'll just leave it there.

The last paragraph makes sense to me, but unfortunately that’s part of our increasingly strained national dynamic. I think that as a general point, in society people need to stop being so bloody sensitive. 

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2 hours ago, deschamp86 said:

This whole percentage of Chinese vs. French is a ridiculous argument. Canada's national languages are English and French. Canada's national league should be English and French as well

You have missed my point entirely.

It was about feeling disrespected because your language is not used by CPL, not whether CPL should actually use it. Big difference. But an excellent example of a strawman!

CPL can and wil use other languages when it makes business sense, which I hope will be soon. And that could at some point include Chinese, of whatever dialect. In the meantime, should the Chinese feel disrespected? Or is that reserved for speakers of an "official" language?

Edited by Lofty

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2 hours ago, Lofty said:

... I agree that French and Chinese are not equivalent in Canada, but neither are French and English! ...

Have you ever been to Quebec? There are parts of the country where French is every bit as dominant as English is in Winnipeg and where a lot of people can only speak French with any level of fluency. If you make a bit of an effort to speak their language when you are in their part of the country, you are made to feel very welcome in my experience and people who can will tend to switch to English if they can hear you are struggling with half-remembered high school level French. If you don't...

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1 hour ago, Lofty said:

You have missed my point entirely.

It was about feeling disrespected because your language is not used by CPL, not whether CPL should actually use it. Big difference. But an excellent example of a strawman!

CPL can and wil use other languages when it makes business sense, which I hope will be soon. And that could at some point include Chinese, of whatever dialect. In the meantime, should the Chinese feel disrespected? Or is that reserved for speakers of an "official" language?

For the record, I have a French last name but I can't speak French fluently, so I don't feel my language is being disrespected by the CPL.

I understand that the CPL is probably understaffed and hiring a bunch of french writers to create 50/50 language content is unreasonable given that without any teams in Quebec a lot of those articles would like go unnoticed. I think it would even be unreasonable to do so with one or two Quebec teams in the league since the league will always be predominantly an English speaking league.

However there are certain things that aren't nearly as expensive to do, such as having the league name in both official names on the league "trophy". I don't think its reasonable to start putting a bunch of different languages on the trophy. I don't think that its necessary to have the league website in a bunch of different languages.

I do think specific clubs will make use of different languages. A club based in a city that has a high Asian population would probably find having some advertising in Mandarin or whichever language advantageous. The league as a whole, no.

I'm trying to go through everything you say now because of this strawman thing, but really I don't think you understand where this side is coming from at all yourself.

At the end of the day, I'm not going to change your mind clearly, and you aren't going to change mine, so the conversation has run its course

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29 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

However there are certain things that aren't nearly as expensive to do, such as having the league name in both official names on the league "trophy". I don't think its reasonable to start putting a bunch of different languages on the trophy. I don't think that its necessary to have the league website in a bunch of different languages.

I do think specific clubs will make use of different languages. A club based in a city that has a high Asian population would probably find having some advertising in Mandarin or whichever language advantageous. The league as a whole, no.

I'm trying to go through everything you say now because of this strawman thing, but really I don't think you understand where this side is coming from at all yourself.

At the end of the day, I'm not going to change your mind clearly, and you aren't going to change mine, so the conversation has run its course

I think I understand the "other" side very well. You summarized it perfectly above: "French is an official language therefore CPL should use it". But also: "and I am offended if CPL doesn't use it".

My argument against the first part is purely financial. My comparison with Chinese was to illustrate that I see no need to be offended, but you seemed to imply that I was using it to argue against the first part: hence a strawman.

It is funny this has gone back and forth so much because I think we mostly agree! For example, I certainly think the trophy should be engraved in both languages.

Edited by Lofty

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11 minutes ago, Lofty said:

But also: "and I am offended if CPL doesn't use it".

Didn't bother reading after this. No point in discussing if you aren't going to read other people's responses

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7 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

Didn't bother reading after this. No point in discussing if you aren't going to read other people's responses

I read your response. I was not referring to you personally. I saw that you said you were not personally offended.

To restate: Part of the "other" side's argument is: "We, the Francophone population, are offended if CPL doesn't use French". (And just to be clear, I am well aware that this generalization clearly does not apply to all Francophones!)

Edited by Lofty

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(Apologies to all for the thread hijack. I'm sure there was a topic created for this and I searched for "French" and "Language" but could not find it.

Unfortunately this sub-forum is now so cluttered with match threads that paging through to look for it is not an option.)

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