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CPL new teams speculation

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24 minutes ago, Shway said:

Lamport could definitely work(if there isn't any MLSE and City OF Toronto deals) , it just needs an investment worth talking about.

Lamport is owned by the City of Toronto and operated by MLSE, so there would have to be deals struck with those entities.

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18 minutes ago, RS said:

Lamport is owned by the City of Toronto and operated by MLSE, so there would have to be deals struck with those entities.

Last time I heard I don't think this is true anymore. I think its operated by the CoT. I could be wrong though. 

I went on MLSE website, and found this

MLSE owns or operates all of the venues its teams play and train in, including Scotiabank Arena, BMO Field, Coca-Cola Coliseum, MasterCard Centre for Hockey Excellence, BMO Training Ground and the Toronto Raptors Training Centre. 

Edited by Shway

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14 minutes ago, Shway said:

Last time I heard I don't think this is true anymore. I think its operated by the CoT. I could be wrong though. 

I went on MLSE website, and found this

MLSE owns or operates all of the venues its teams play and train in, including Scotiabank Arena, BMO Field, Coca-Cola Coliseum, MasterCard Centre for Hockey Excellence, BMO Training Ground and the Toronto Raptors Training Centre. 

Ah yeah, it looks like MLSE got out of the management game (for facilities that aren't directly connected to their teams) a few years ago. Lamport and the Oshawa arena were under their umbrella at one point.

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Varsity isn't up to CPL stadium standards with the lined turf.

Camera Booth to aim at the grandstand would have to be built as well since the bleachers are on one side only, and hopefully real seats put in the center few sections of the grandstand as well.

It can be done if the group has and is willing to spend the $ for those items and the University agrees but don't see this happening for years imo.

Varsity%20Stadium.jpg

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Credit to Actualité Soccer Canadien (follow him, he's doing a great job)

Regarding Quebec City:

-There's a serious ownership group working on the team, and that a stadium deal have been made but doubtful for 2020

-Soccer Quebec wants to work with CPL but marketing-wise he's more on the fence...calls CPL "very anglophone"

-There may be a PLSQ opportunity for Sherbrooke but a CPL team is doubtful in his opinion

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9 hours ago, Ansem said:

-Soccer Quebec wants to work with CPL but marketing-wise he's more on the fence...calls CPL "very anglophone"

So is the rest of Canada for the most part. And TBH I would have done the same thing if I was launching a league (with respect to not bringing on French immediately). There is no team in the province of Quebec yet and there are a million things a startup has to do. It wasn't a high priority thing. Now with one, potentially two, teams in Quebec over the next couple of years plus working with the PLSQ that will definitely change.

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16 minutes ago, T_Bison said:

So is the rest of Canada for the most part. And TBH I would have done the same thing if I was launching a league (with respect to not bringing on French immediately). There is no team in the province of Quebec yet and there are a million things a startup has to do. It wasn't a high priority thing. Now with one, potentially two, teams in Quebec over the next couple of years plus working with the PLSQ that will definitely change.

There's a large francophone presence in both Ontario and Manitoba...so I'll disagree on that. Team or no team in Quebec, Quebecers & former Impact academy players are in the league

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That’s a pretty exciting article.  A 2 team Quebec expansion in Laval and Quebec City at the same time would be pretty great.  What better way to go into that market could you have than establishing an instant built in rivalry like that.  

I think a lot of people are hoping for Saskatoon in 2021 which I think would be also a very good timeframe and location.

I’m still holding out hope for Ottawa next year to take us to 8 teams.

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50 minutes ago, T_Bison said:

So is the rest of Canada for the most part. And TBH I would have done the same thing if I was launching a league (with respect to not bringing on French immediately). There is no team in the province of Quebec yet and there are a million things a startup has to do. It wasn't a high priority thing. Now with one, potentially two, teams in Quebec over the next couple of years plus working with the PLSQ that will definitely change.

I cannot agree with such logic. As Ansel had correctly pointed out, there is a fairly significant francophone presence in both Manitoba and Ontario, as well as in New Brunswick. The other point I will make here is that this is a bilingual country. I know people seem to argue against it, but it is a fact. Therefore, I think it is poor that the CPL did not go bilingual from the get go. Finally, just by the fact that there wasn't a French presence in most of the news articles and live broadcasts, that is going to make it difficult for the francophone community (especially those whose English is not strong) to get engaged with the CPL, or even want a francophone club to join the league. 

That being said, I hope there are some Québécois clubs in the CPL soon. That would make things more interesting. I'm just still keeping hope for one more team in next season's CPL

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5 hours ago, Ansem said:

There's a large francophone presence in both Ontario and Manitoba...so I'll disagree on that. Team or no team in Quebec, Quebecers & former Impact academy players are in the league

I can't speak to NB, but the francophone situation between Quebec and MB is very different.  For 99% of people in MB listed as francophone, they are all bilingual and generally english is their first language.  

You could walk the streets of Winnipeg for months without hearing a french conversation.

My kids are in hardcore french immersion school and still all the kids speak english outside of class.

Outside of Winnipeg in some small french rural areas,  is the only place in MB you may hear predominantly french spoken. 

Yes it would be nice if CPL was fully bilingual off the hop, but I have to side with T_Bison on this one.  The clubs are currently operating in english cities and as the league has a chance to catch it's breath and/or introduce french cities into the league, I think they have bigger priorities for year one.  Once we have a Quebec/NB team, I have no doubt CPL will be fully bilingual, as it should.

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I see it as a bit of a chicken/egg thing.  Do you bake bilingualism into the league form the outset in the hope that Francophones will embrace the league (with no presence in predominantly francophone markets), or do you build it with them when they sign on?  It looks like the league is using the latter approach, and I am not sure they were wrong.   

 

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One Soccer's website is pretty amusing in its bilingualism. You set it to French and you still get random words, phrases and titles in English, occasionally whole pages. I think they might have hired a summer student to do it. On the other hand, they did put more effort into it than the people that sourced the trophy.

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10 hours ago, T_Bison said:

So is the rest of Canada for the most part. And TBH I would have done the same thing if I was launching a league (with respect to not bringing on French immediately). There is no team in the province of Quebec yet and there are a million things a startup has to do. It wasn't a high priority thing. Now with one, potentially two, teams in Quebec over the next couple of years plus working with the PLSQ that will definitely change.

The the only reason you'd need French in an officially bilingual country is if we have a team in Quebec?  Perhaps St. Boniface isn't as francophone as it once was, but I find the 'Quebec is French and the rest of the country is English' way of thinking baffling.  Even if that vision of language distribution in Canada were true, it's certainly not the best way to entice teams from Quebec (or New Brunswick) to join, or to get other francophone fans even.  Just as M Marchand pointed out, the league is very anglophone.  If I were him, it wouldn't be a very alluring aspect.

Imagine the shoe being on the other foot?  How closely would anglos be following this league, and how many anglo investors would be interested in forking over wads of cash if the league had started off in Quebec, New Brunswick and franco-Ontario and had almost no English content?

Edited by vancanman

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9 hours ago, dnina10 said:

I cannot agree with such logic. As Ansel had correctly pointed out, there is a fairly significant francophone presence in both Manitoba and Ontario, as well as in New Brunswick. The other point I will make here is that this is a bilingual country. I know people seem to argue against it, but it is a fact. Therefore, I think it is poor that the CPL did not go bilingual from the get go. Finally, just by the fact that there wasn't a French presence in most of the news articles and live broadcasts, that is going to make it difficult for the francophone community (especially those whose English is not strong) to get engaged with the CPL, or even want a francophone club to join the league. 

That being said, I hope there are some Québécois clubs in the CPL soon. That would make things more interesting. I'm just still keeping hope for one more team in next season's CPL

Manitoba (3.8%) and Ontario (4.4%) have a miniscule french speaking population. New Brunswick on the other hand has 31% roughly and 230k+.

The vast majority are in Quebec (8.2 million) however at about 93%. So yeah, the rest of Canada is mostly non french speaking and there's nothing wrong with that and with no clubs in Quebec the CPL is "very anglophone" maybe but again, nothing wrong with that.

Yes, Pierre Trudeau decided to make the country bilingual but most Canadians outside of Quebec don't speak the language.

Hopefully a Quebec club or 2 is in CPL in the near future, would love to see one in Quebec City.

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Just to put it in perspective, what league do Quebec investors/owners want to to join that isnt very anglo??  There is a provincial 3rd teir PLSQ league, if you want bigger  you are going to have to deal with anglos, whether they be canadian or american.   Considering they are starting from scratch, CPL should get a pass on not being up to snuff on french content.

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1 hour ago, CDNFootballer said:

...Yes, Pierre Trudeau decided to make the country bilingual but most Canadians outside of Quebec don't speak the language...

Canada would almost certainly not exist any more in its current form if French had not been accorded that status. It wasn't something that was done on a whim by a single politician but was something that was absolutely necessary from a national unity standpoint. It is fundamental to what Canada is as a state that French should always be respected as being equal to English in status on a national level.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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14 hours ago, Lofty said:

The French language thing is a business decision. When French is needed, it will be provided.

No offence @Lofty, but this is fundamentally the problem. For most Anglos, whether or not services are offered in French is viewed as a financial decision. If the money's there/if there's an obvious return on investment, then sure; if not, too bad (see Doug Ford and his French-language fiasco last year). For Francos, it's viewed as a matter of respect and equality. In a bilingual country where the two official languages have equal status, anything truly national in scope should offer its services in both languages. Anything less is just insulting - and I wholeheartedly agree. 

For a new league to repeatedly say that it's national in scope, wants teams across the country and that Quebec is a top priority, they have to demonstrate that by offering content in both languages. Articles, videos, podcasts, Tweets, you name it. Otherwise, you're just paying lip-service. "Sure, we want you to be involved . . . but we're just not going to put in any real effort until we need to." That doesn't sell. 

A lot of people on this forum have been commenting on the need for better publicity/market penetration for the league to build support and interest. Absolutely no one questions the need to get the league more TV and web/sports news exposure, the importance of improving One Soccer's quality and availability to the Canadian population, or the need to embrace grassroots supporters and send the message that this league is for them (and all Canadians). Think of how frustrating it is to see where the league is on these fronts compared to where they could be. And now, think of how infuriating/insulting it is to so many people that the league hasn't even gone a tenth that far with Francophones. How is it that we can be so obsessed with visibility and media exposure when people accept that ignoring over one fifth of the country is somehow alright? 

The final thing I would say is this: offering services/content in both languages does not incur the insanely prohibitive cost people seem to think it does. I work in government for God's sake, and I'm very much aware of the costs incurred. Considering the number of online content contributors/back-room staff they already have at the CPL, they can easily afford to hire an extra staff member/translator to make sure they're getting the message out in both languages. Hell, just look at Canada Soccer. The translation quality isn't always the best, but all of their content, products and communications are *always* available in both languages. Canada Soccer, a not-for-profit organization, has figured out how to make this work. A Goddam business is should be more than capable of doing the same.  If the CPL is able to fly all of the head coaches plus the Commissioner to Italy just to look at jerseys, then they damn well better prioritize more important things like engaging with all Canadians. 

The league needs to get its ass in gear and proactively improve its French-language content. It's already made a bad first impression with a lot of Francophones (especially Francophone media); they *need* to fix this *now*. 

P.S. 

Also, for the record, it's better to look at hard numbers of Francos in Canada rather than percentages in order to get the full picture. A small percentage of people in Ontario still translates into a lot of people. 

QC - 6,400,000

NB - 240,000

ON - 570,000

BC - 87,000

AB - 72,000

MB - 46,000

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6 minutes ago, m-g-williams said:

Also, for the record, it's better to look at hard numbers of Francos in Canada rather than percentages in order to get the full picture. A small percentage of people in Ontario still translates into a lot of people. 

QC - 6,400,000

NB - 240,000

ON - 570,000

BC - 87,000

AB - 72,000

MB - 46,000

So taking Quebec out of the calculations, that is about 1 million people out of around 30 million.  How large is the french speaking population in the markets they are in?  Very, very small.  The lack of French language coverage has zero effect on the number of tickets sold to Forge or Y9 games.  Would IG Field have 20,000 more people if Valour was fully bilingual?  No, they would not. 

If there was no team in Quebec but more French coverage of the league how many of the 6.4 million people in Quebec would be following the CPL in year one and have One Soccer subscriptions? 

When the demand is there for French language coverage (when there is a team that is in Quebec), it will be there.

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1 hour ago, m-g-williams said:

No offence @Lofty, but this is fundamentally the problem. For most Anglos, whether or not services are offered in French is viewed as a financial decision. If the money's there/if there's an obvious return on investment, then sure; if not, too bad (see Doug Ford and his French-language fiasco last year). For Francos, it's viewed as a matter of respect and equality. In a bilingual country where the two official languages have equal status, anything truly national in scope should offer its services in both languages. Anything less is just insulting - and I wholeheartedly agree. 

For a new league to repeatedly say that it's national in scope, wants teams across the country and that Quebec is a top priority, they have to demonstrate that by offering content in both languages. Articles, videos, podcasts, Tweets, you name it. Otherwise, you're just paying lip-service. "Sure, we want you to be involved . . . but we're just not going to put in any real effort until we need to." That doesn't sell. 

No offence taken! And none intended with this reply.

I certainly agree with your perspective on the differing attitudes towards French language content: for Anglos such as me it is a practical consideration whereas for the French it is ideological.

Canada is only bilingual because the government says so and has unlimited taxpayer funds to provide everything in both "official" languages. But in practice, as has been pointed out above, it is not bilingual. Manitoba would seem like a foreign country if you only spoke French; you would have trouble communicating.

Businesses do not have unlimited taxpayer funds to duplicate everything. And I find it revealing that while you want French to be provided as as a matter of "respect", the majority of your argument is financial. Anglophones do not mean any disrespect when they don't feel the need to translate everything into French just because the government says Canada is bilingual. Any more than they would feel disrespected by French companies not providing everything in English.

Edited by Lofty

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