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One Soccer's website is pretty amusing in its bilingualism. You set it to French and you still get random words, phrases and titles in English, occasionally whole pages. I think they might have hired a summer student to do it. On the other hand, they did put more effort into it than the people that sourced the trophy.

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I'm in an MLS market, but dropped the Caps for Pacific and let them know several times as they tried to bring me back that Caps to CPL would do be the only thing to do it. I realize that I'm being a z

That would suck if at the end of the transaction you're left with a combination of $250,000,000 of GAM and TAM -which you can only spend in the MLS store.

Thanks for all the info on the NBA, various other basketball entities and NZ football clubs. How far back do I have to scroll to find CPL new teams speculation??

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10 hours ago, T_Bison said:

So is the rest of Canada for the most part. And TBH I would have done the same thing if I was launching a league (with respect to not bringing on French immediately). There is no team in the province of Quebec yet and there are a million things a startup has to do. It wasn't a high priority thing. Now with one, potentially two, teams in Quebec over the next couple of years plus working with the PLSQ that will definitely change.

The the only reason you'd need French in an officially bilingual country is if we have a team in Quebec?  Perhaps St. Boniface isn't as francophone as it once was, but I find the 'Quebec is French and the rest of the country is English' way of thinking baffling.  Even if that vision of language distribution in Canada were true, it's certainly not the best way to entice teams from Quebec (or New Brunswick) to join, or to get other francophone fans even.  Just as M Marchand pointed out, the league is very anglophone.  If I were him, it wouldn't be a very alluring aspect.

Imagine the shoe being on the other foot?  How closely would anglos be following this league, and how many anglo investors would be interested in forking over wads of cash if the league had started off in Quebec, New Brunswick and franco-Ontario and had almost no English content?

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9 hours ago, dnina10 said:

I cannot agree with such logic. As Ansel had correctly pointed out, there is a fairly significant francophone presence in both Manitoba and Ontario, as well as in New Brunswick. The other point I will make here is that this is a bilingual country. I know people seem to argue against it, but it is a fact. Therefore, I think it is poor that the CPL did not go bilingual from the get go. Finally, just by the fact that there wasn't a French presence in most of the news articles and live broadcasts, that is going to make it difficult for the francophone community (especially those whose English is not strong) to get engaged with the CPL, or even want a francophone club to join the league. 

That being said, I hope there are some Québécois clubs in the CPL soon. That would make things more interesting. I'm just still keeping hope for one more team in next season's CPL

Manitoba (3.8%) and Ontario (4.4%) have a miniscule french speaking population. New Brunswick on the other hand has 31% roughly and 230k+.

The vast majority are in Quebec (8.2 million) however at about 93%. So yeah, the rest of Canada is mostly non french speaking and there's nothing wrong with that and with no clubs in Quebec the CPL is "very anglophone" maybe but again, nothing wrong with that.

Yes, Pierre Trudeau decided to make the country bilingual but most Canadians outside of Quebec don't speak the language.

Hopefully a Quebec club or 2 is in CPL in the near future, would love to see one in Quebec City.

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Just to put it in perspective, what league do Quebec investors/owners want to to join that isnt very anglo??  There is a provincial 3rd teir PLSQ league, if you want bigger  you are going to have to deal with anglos, whether they be canadian or american.   Considering they are starting from scratch, CPL should get a pass on not being up to snuff on french content.

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1 hour ago, CDNFootballer said:

...Yes, Pierre Trudeau decided to make the country bilingual but most Canadians outside of Quebec don't speak the language...

Canada would almost certainly not exist any more in its current form if French had not been accorded that status. It wasn't something that was done on a whim by a single politician but was something that was absolutely necessary from a national unity standpoint. It is fundamental to what Canada is as a state that French should always be respected as being equal to English in status on a national level.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot
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14 hours ago, Lofty said:

The French language thing is a business decision. When French is needed, it will be provided.

No offence @Lofty, but this is fundamentally the problem. For most Anglos, whether or not services are offered in French is viewed as a financial decision. If the money's there/if there's an obvious return on investment, then sure; if not, too bad (see Doug Ford and his French-language fiasco last year). For Francos, it's viewed as a matter of respect and equality. In a bilingual country where the two official languages have equal status, anything truly national in scope should offer its services in both languages. Anything less is just insulting - and I wholeheartedly agree. 

For a new league to repeatedly say that it's national in scope, wants teams across the country and that Quebec is a top priority, they have to demonstrate that by offering content in both languages. Articles, videos, podcasts, Tweets, you name it. Otherwise, you're just paying lip-service. "Sure, we want you to be involved . . . but we're just not going to put in any real effort until we need to." That doesn't sell. 

A lot of people on this forum have been commenting on the need for better publicity/market penetration for the league to build support and interest. Absolutely no one questions the need to get the league more TV and web/sports news exposure, the importance of improving One Soccer's quality and availability to the Canadian population, or the need to embrace grassroots supporters and send the message that this league is for them (and all Canadians). Think of how frustrating it is to see where the league is on these fronts compared to where they could be. And now, think of how infuriating/insulting it is to so many people that the league hasn't even gone a tenth that far with Francophones. How is it that we can be so obsessed with visibility and media exposure when people accept that ignoring over one fifth of the country is somehow alright? 

The final thing I would say is this: offering services/content in both languages does not incur the insanely prohibitive cost people seem to think it does. I work in government for God's sake, and I'm very much aware of the costs incurred. Considering the number of online content contributors/back-room staff they already have at the CPL, they can easily afford to hire an extra staff member/translator to make sure they're getting the message out in both languages. Hell, just look at Canada Soccer. The translation quality isn't always the best, but all of their content, products and communications are *always* available in both languages. Canada Soccer, a not-for-profit organization, has figured out how to make this work. A Goddam business is should be more than capable of doing the same.  If the CPL is able to fly all of the head coaches plus the Commissioner to Italy just to look at jerseys, then they damn well better prioritize more important things like engaging with all Canadians. 

The league needs to get its ass in gear and proactively improve its French-language content. It's already made a bad first impression with a lot of Francophones (especially Francophone media); they *need* to fix this *now*. 

P.S. 

Also, for the record, it's better to look at hard numbers of Francos in Canada rather than percentages in order to get the full picture. A small percentage of people in Ontario still translates into a lot of people. 

QC - 6,400,000

NB - 240,000

ON - 570,000

BC - 87,000

AB - 72,000

MB - 46,000

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6 minutes ago, m-g-williams said:

Also, for the record, it's better to look at hard numbers of Francos in Canada rather than percentages in order to get the full picture. A small percentage of people in Ontario still translates into a lot of people. 

QC - 6,400,000

NB - 240,000

ON - 570,000

BC - 87,000

AB - 72,000

MB - 46,000

So taking Quebec out of the calculations, that is about 1 million people out of around 30 million.  How large is the french speaking population in the markets they are in?  Very, very small.  The lack of French language coverage has zero effect on the number of tickets sold to Forge or Y9 games.  Would IG Field have 20,000 more people if Valour was fully bilingual?  No, they would not. 

If there was no team in Quebec but more French coverage of the league how many of the 6.4 million people in Quebec would be following the CPL in year one and have One Soccer subscriptions? 

When the demand is there for French language coverage (when there is a team that is in Quebec), it will be there.

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And that attitude line, above, is why the guy from the Quebec soccer associated called CanPL very "anglophone". Disrespect doesn't just occur when it is intended.

I would certainly feel disrespected if I was approached by a "national" organization representing a "national" league wanting my participation, and not an iota of that content was presented in my language, which is one of the national languages. It screams "we'll care about you ... once you buy into what we're doing." Yeah, I'd be suspicious too.

We can rationalize it away with costs and figures. We can dismiss it by lining it up with ideology. But either way, honestly, it was an amateur move.

And with the MediaPro money, there is zero excuse.

Edited by The Real Marc
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The difference from a corporation on this is that CanPL has been sanctioned by the CSA as the D1 league covering all of Canada and that moves it into the realm of being a national institution. The official languages of Canada are French and English. To not have French given equal status in league branding and on trophies etc is a step beyond what's reasonable from a business practicality standpoint into what is likely to start being interpreted in some quarters as a deliberate and calculated snub.

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For some context here.. there is an actual debate happening in Vancouver because there are people who think it is fine to just display Mandarin(Chinese) language on signs, buildings whatever. There was a guy who had to sue his strata because they refused to hold meetings in English. Often people point to Quebec as a reason why people don't have to speak English or display english communication. People in BC are very ignorant towards Quebec. They really don't understand the situation or the laws. French is a recognized official language in Canada along with English. French should be on the trophy even though for someone in BC that may seem to open a huge can of worms

Edited by SpursFlu
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I think most reasonable people would not expect the CPL to have absolutely every piece of content in French, or allow every single employee to work in the language of their choice (you know, Federal Govt. level stuff). It's recognized that it's a start up that needs to allocate their money in a judicious way. There is low hanging fruit however. If you have a Championship trophy with no French, or if you go to the web page and choose 'French' and are still faced with titles in English and a bizarre mix of Franglais, then it just makes them look amateur and it feels like they don't care. It doesn't seem like it should be so hard.

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13 minutes ago, Lofty said:

So, should Chinese Canadians feel disrespected because CPL does not provide Chinese content? Or do they have to wait for a government decree that Chinese is an "official" language before they feel disrespected?

As a matter of practicality, Vancouver International airport displays departures and arrivals in Chinese, so there is certainly a significant Chinese population in B.C.

Well it is up to anyone to decide whether, when and where to feel disrespected, of course.

But to equate the lack of French in our national soccer league to a lack of Chinese sort of proves that guy's point about anglophonism, no? French and Mandarin are not equivalent in Canada.

I would certainly encourage the league to consider whether and how broadcasting in other languages could increase viewership and attendance, though I doubt it would help at this point in time.

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1 hour ago, Lofty said:

So, should Chinese Canadians feel disrespected because CPL does not provide Chinese content? Or do they have to wait for a government decree that Chinese is an "official" language before they feel disrespected?

As a matter of practicality, Vancouver International airport displays departures and arrivals in Chinese, so there is certainly a significant Chinese population in B.C.

I think there’s a difference between a prevalent foreign language, and an official language of this country. 

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1 hour ago, Lofty said:

I'm not disputing his point about the CPL being Anglophone. I am questioning whether it should be relevant and saying it will change once French teams join CPL.

I agree that French and Chinese are not equivalent in Canada, but neither are French and English! No matter what the Government says!

I guess the main point here is that Francophones are taking offence where none is intended. I'll just leave it there.

The last paragraph makes sense to me, but unfortunately that’s part of our increasingly strained national dynamic. I think that as a general point, in society people need to stop being so bloody sensitive. 

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2 hours ago, Lofty said:

... I agree that French and Chinese are not equivalent in Canada, but neither are French and English! ...

Have you ever been to Quebec? There are parts of the country where French is every bit as dominant as English is in Winnipeg and where a lot of people can only speak French with any level of fluency. If you make a bit of an effort to speak their language when you are in their part of the country, you are made to feel very welcome in my experience and people who can will tend to switch to English if they can hear you are struggling with half-remembered high school level French. If you don't...

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1 hour ago, Lofty said:

You have missed my point entirely.

It was about feeling disrespected because your language is not used by CPL, not whether CPL should actually use it. Big difference. But an excellent example of a strawman!

CPL can and wil use other languages when it makes business sense, which I hope will be soon. And that could at some point include Chinese, of whatever dialect. In the meantime, should the Chinese feel disrespected? Or is that reserved for speakers of an "official" language?

For the record, I have a French last name but I can't speak French fluently, so I don't feel my language is being disrespected by the CPL.

I understand that the CPL is probably understaffed and hiring a bunch of french writers to create 50/50 language content is unreasonable given that without any teams in Quebec a lot of those articles would like go unnoticed. I think it would even be unreasonable to do so with one or two Quebec teams in the league since the league will always be predominantly an English speaking league.

However there are certain things that aren't nearly as expensive to do, such as having the league name in both official names on the league "trophy". I don't think its reasonable to start putting a bunch of different languages on the trophy. I don't think that its necessary to have the league website in a bunch of different languages.

I do think specific clubs will make use of different languages. A club based in a city that has a high Asian population would probably find having some advertising in Mandarin or whichever language advantageous. The league as a whole, no.

I'm trying to go through everything you say now because of this strawman thing, but really I don't think you understand where this side is coming from at all yourself.

At the end of the day, I'm not going to change your mind clearly, and you aren't going to change mine, so the conversation has run its course

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