Constructive CPL thread

[dyslexic nam]

With the demise of the vast CPL thread, I thought I would start a new general thread for constructive CPL discussion.

Rather than seperate threads for every single topic re CPL, I think there is a lot of value in a single place where folks can discuss the range of miscellaneous issues related to CPL as it evolves.  Constructive thoughts and positive contributions are strongly encouraged.

Admins - feel free to delete if this kind of thread exists elsewhere or there is a different plan for general CPL discussion.

[BuzzAndSting]

So this is different from the "Rational CPL Thread?"

[Alex D]

2 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

So this is different from the "Rational CPL Thread?"

I started that one in the now lost private CPL forum. It's served it's course, it's probably time to start fresh. It would be nice to stick to actual news and facts. 

 

[BuzzAndSting]

Just now, Alex D said:

I started that one in the now lost private CPL forum. It's served it's course, it's probably time to start fresh. It would be nice to stick to actual news and facts. 

 

Ahhh. Didn't know that. Apologies to all!

[Alex D]

To get things off on the right foot, Mr. Beirne stated on the sportsnet soccer podcast that they are evaluating 10 business plans to join the league, plus he has received 3 more very serious inquiries since the announcement. 

Its coming folks, if you are lucky, to a town near you. 

[Nello]

Long live the threads!

[Ansem]

I think we should wait for socceronly to make a CPL thread...we obviously need a time out

[dyslexic nam]

Just now, Ansem said:

I think we should wait for socceronly to make a CPL thread...we obviously need a time out

Thus my last sentence - it is totally his prerogative to remove this one.  But I am hoping that if we all behave and engage in constructive discussion of CPL, there may be no need to prohibit general discussion of the league until something more permanent is put in place.  

[Alex D]

It's hard to discuss the league when there is no central thread for it. Instead it gets fragmented into team based threads. 

I do feel that this one needs to be better behaved and strictly moderated. 

[Ansem]

indeed

[matty]

4 minutes ago, Alex D said:

It's hard to discuss the league when there is no central thread for it. Instead it gets fragmented into team based threads. 

I do feel that this one needs to be better behaved and strictly moderated. 

I think we should make a second thread that can be used for shitposts and fantasy posts

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

I can be a mod

No only they who is neutral can mod

[Ansem]

Just now, matty said:

No only they who is neutral can mod

no one's neutral but I can show restrain

[Rheo]

Didn't see this anywhere and not sure where to post but Mr Beirne was on Sportnet pod talking CPL http://sprtsnt.ca/2qYNRB8

i haven't listened but saw some tweets and sounds like some interesting nuggets 

[Symp_Res]

Not sure if this is the proper thread. Please feel free to move this post if needed.  I'll start a little off topic but I promise I'll tie it in.

When Octavio Zambrano was first introduced as the CNMT coach and director of player development from the U-15s and up, I noticed two things in particular about his press conferences...

1. He talked about finding a Canadian identity in how we play the game.  He noted that we need to walk into a game believing that we can win.  That other countries need to respect our National Team and players, and;
2. He took great care to call the game 'Soccer'.  I don't think that he has made a single reference to 'football'.

Now that the Canadian Premier League is a reality, my hope is that we all embrace the 'Canadian' part of that term. I think that teams should have names that reflect the local community and can draw in local support. nameofcity FC/FC nameofcity, nameofcity "City"...United...etc. sounds so pretentious to non-fans.  I believe that we need to embrace the Canadian and North American convention of naming teams.  nameofcity-nickname.  That's it. If you must add something at the end, at least be "SC"-"Soccer Club". This bring me to point 2.

We need to stop trying to be British (or Italian or Croatian or Spanish or German or Brazilian...etc).  Growing up in Saskatoon 40 years ago, the local coach was Scottish, the Provincial coach was Welsh. The whole Association was run by British.  The tactics we learned were 20 years outdated.  That has to change. 

Hockey is so big in this country, and they would never stand for the attitude that we have for soccer.  Some of the best players that I played with were guys that used soccer during the summer to keep in shape for winter hockey because they new how to use the space on the field to create offence, and they knew where to be defensively to prevent scoring chances against. 

We have to find a way to connect to Canadians that look at the Game as foreign.  Immigrants can only take it so far.  I think for CanPL to strive, we need to find a way to make everyone in our community a part of the experience. That means calling it "Soccer", and embracing our diversity and making every single game an experience.

...Just my opinion

 

 

[dyslexic nam]

8 hours ago, Symp_Res said:

Not sure if this is the proper thread. Please feel free to move this post if needed.  I'll start a little off topic but I promise I'll tie it in.

When Octavio Zambrano was first introduced as the CNMT coach and director of player development from the U-15s and up, I noticed two things in particular about his press conferences...

1. He talked about finding a Canadian identity in how we play the game.  He noted that we need to walk into a game believing that we can win.  That other countries need to respect our National Team and players, and;
2. He took great care to call the game 'Soccer'.  I don't think that he has made a single reference to 'football'.

Now that the Canadian Premier League is a reality, my hope is that we all embrace the 'Canadian' part of that term. I think that teams should have names that reflect the local community and can draw in local support. nameofcity FC/FC nameofcity, nameofcity "City"...United...etc. sounds so pretentious to non-fans.  I believe that we need to embrace the Canadian and North American convention of naming teams.  nameofcity-nickname.  That's it. If you must add something at the end, at least be "SC"-"Soccer Club". This bring me to point 2.

We need to stop trying to be British (or Italian or Croatian or Spanish or German or Brazilian...etc).  Growing up in Saskatoon 40 years ago, the local coach was Scottish, the Provincial coach was Welsh. The whole Association was run by British.  The tactics we learned were 20 years outdated.  That has to change. 

Hockey is so big in this country, and they would never stand for the attitude that we have for soccer.  Some of the best players that I played with were guys that used soccer during the summer to keep in shape for winter hockey because they new how to use the space on the field to create offence, and they knew where to be defensively to prevent scoring chances against. 

We have to find a way to connect to Canadians that look at the Game as foreign.  Immigrants can only take it so far.  I think for CanPL to strive, we need to find a way to make everyone in our community a part of the experience. That means calling it "Soccer", and embracing our diversity and making every single game an experience.

...Just my opinion

 

Not sure I agree on all counts, but the overall sentiment of engagement is true (and was suggested by socceronly as the big thing we need to do to make CPL work).  I am not sure how prevalent the soccer-as-foreign mentality is now however - especially among the younger cohort that will likely be the fanbase that drives CPL forward.  Maybe it is just a product of my own narrow experience since I have been playing soccer for years (leading to a pretty biased sample pool) but the attitude that soccer is some Euro activity seems like it is quickly receding into the past. 

I still see a lot of hockey die-hards who will roll their eyes and mock the game when they see the unfortunate ankle grabbing and dramatic dives, but that is more about the way people choose to play the game rather than any foreign bias (IMO).  Maybe if we can encourage CPL players to play a more Canadian brand of soccer (get up, brush yourself off and keep playing hard to the whistle - "rub some dirt on it and get out there!") we can change that perception, since even seasoned fans of the sport recognize that it is a turn-off for many neutrals.

[rob.notenboom]

I was very interested to hear Paul Beirne's comments on 'Expressions of Interest' from teams wanting to enter the league. He did not come right out and say it, but he strongly implied that an EoI is not a one-pager that you quickly type up and send to the league to say 'Hey we're interested' but more an outline of your case for being in the league. It would include a lot of detail including who was involved from an investor and admin standpoint, your economic case that you can be successful, etc. 

So if I've followed Paul's comments along the right trajectory, it means that there are ten teams that are at this point, and that is very encouraging. It also would mean that there have been 10 teams doing a fair amount of pre-preparation work and the 60-90 days mentioned would be to evaluate these proposals and say 'Yes you are ready' or 'No this and this and this still need work'.

Could many of the proposals be underwhelming or insufficient? I suppose they could, but it would be terrible business practice to solicit EoI from people and then not describe what you wanted to be in the EoI or consult with them throughout the process. 

[MtlMario]

One thing I found really interesting was about how important it will be to have SSS of the right size for each club.

[dyslexic nam]

15 minutes ago, rob.notenboom said:

I was very interested to hear Paul Beirne's comments on 'Expressions of Interest' from teams wanting to enter the league. He did not come right out and say it, but he strongly implied that an EoI is not a one-pager that you quickly type up and send to the league to say 'Hey we're interested' but more an outline of your case for being in the league. It would include a lot of detail including who was involved from an investor and admin standpoint, your economic case that you can be successful, etc. 

So if I've followed Paul's comments along the right trajectory, it means that there are ten teams that are at this point, and that is very encouraging. It also would mean that there have been 10 teams doing a fair amount of pre-preparation work and the 60-90 days mentioned would be to evaluate these proposals and say 'Yes you are ready' or 'No this and this and this still need work'.

Could many of the proposals be underwhelming or insufficient? I suppose they could, but it would be terrible business practice to solicit EoI from people and then not describe what you wanted to be in the EoI or consult with them throughout the process. 

I def don't want to kick off a contentious debate about where things are at based on this comment or that tweet, but for many people I think what you have outlined has always been the underlying belief given the noises coming from various people in-the-know.  A league has been announced, teams have publicly committed, owners are starting to put things in motion.  All of this implies, at least to me, that things are much further along that some vague and informal expressions of interest made casually by people who may or may not be committed to this project.  I don't think the public noises made so far would be done lightly.

[BuzzAndSting]

A post from the "shitpost" thread got me thinking, what are everyone's thoughts on jerseys and sponsors? Personally I would love it if teams could negotiate their own deals but I imagine for the sake of the league they'll have a national kit deal and either a group of national sponsors for jerseys or teams will be able to find their own sponsors. It's trivial but I find some of the teams in MLS look amateurish when they either don't have a kit sponsor or the sponsor is some small regional company no one has heard of.

[dyslexic nam]

I am curious if anyone - especially investors in smaller markets - might look into the idea of a business model where supporters own a stake in the club, or even in the league itself.  Looking around the net, I found the wikipedia page for "List of fan-owned sports teams", so it seems like a model that is at least somewhat widespread - even if it seems like there is a lot of variation in the details (and the outcomes).  Interestingly, the lone entry for Canada is the following:

Victoria Highlanders F.C. – majority owner Alex Campbell Jr. publicly announced that the purchase of season tickets will give supporters "an ownership share in the club and a voice in its direction". Season ticket holders are members of the Victoria Highlanders Supporters Society, which owns 30% of the club and holds two seats (of nine) on the club's advisory board. The club however disbanded in 2014 and when it was re-founded a year later in 2015, it did not involve fan-ownership.

 

So, a failed experiment from the sounds of things, but I wonder if CPL could ever explore such an arrangement for some markets where raising capital may be an issue, or where business owners want to share risk with a wider pool of backers.  Maybe it would be too risky in terms of complicating the business model (or maybe it is a model too evolved for where we are generally at in Canada with respect to soccer support), but at least at the cursory level, giving supporters an actual financial stake in the health of their club (as opposed to just an emotional stake) seems like the kind of thing that would enhance engagement and encourage supporters to be really active in ensuring the growth and overall positive environment within the club.

 

Really just thinking out loud about ways fans can support CPL.  I only need so many t shirts, but the chance to buy a small financial stake in a new club in a fledgling league would would both present an actual investment opportunity as well as establish a meaningful way to contribute in a tangible way.  Crowd funding the league so to speak.  

[Complete Homer]

18 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I am curious if anyone - especially investors in smaller markets - might look into the idea of a business model where supporters own a stake in the club, or even in the league itself.  Looking around the net, I found the wikipedia page for "List of fan-owned sports teams", so it seems like a model that is at least somewhat widespread - even if it seems like there is a lot of variation in the details (and the outcomes).  Interestingly, the lone entry for Canada is the following

Well, with Winnipeg in, there's already a community owned team

I'm skeptical though for new supporters funds. My reasoning is that it is very unlikely that the league will make money in the medium term. Supporters funds tend to be set up in leagues where breaking even is a legitimate possibility. While I can see enough hype to sell shares for a small supporters fund, I can't see that same fund successfully re-raising funds each year to contribute their portion of the losses. 

That said, some fashion of a supporters "fund" could help in some contexts. I imagine a Toronto franchise would have to significantly differentiate itself from TFC, maybe using something like the model Sounders (season ticket holders get to vote on certain team decisions) could help with that. 

Most of the flak I've heard from non-mls fans is either that the league is too low quality or it is too corporate. CPL won't be able to win over anyone in the first category, so if teams emerge in MLS markets this could be a way to access a group of uncaptured fans

[Rheo]

Waking The Red's CPL recap.  Figure there isn't much if anything new but putting it out there

http://www.wakingthered.com/2017/5/12/15628730/canadian-premier-league-cpl-soccer-hamilton-winnipeg-canpl

[dyslexic nam]

8 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Well, with Winnipeg in, there's already a community owned team

I'm skeptical though for new supporters funds. My reasoning is that it is very unlikely that the league will make money in the medium term. Supporters funds tend to be set up in leagues where breaking even is a legitimate possibility. While I can see enough hype to sell shares for a small supporters fund, I can't see that same fund successfully re-raising funds each year to contribute their portion of the losses. 

That said, some fashion of a supporters "fund" could help in some contexts. I imagine a Toronto franchise would have to significantly differentiate itself from TFC, maybe using something like the model Sounders (season ticket holders get to vote on certain team decisions) could help with that. 

Most of the flak I've heard from non-mls fans is either that the league is too low quality or it is too corporate. CPL won't be able to win over anyone in the first category, so if teams emerge in MLS markets this could be a way to access a group of uncaptured fans

I guess I was thinking more of a one-time injection to help with capital/start-up costs rather than an annual contribution.  All of which may display my lack of understanding in financial matters...  The one-time injection does avoid the issues of initial losses - the idea is not that it would yield an immediate return but would be a long term investment.  If you think of the MLS context, imagine the kind of investment growth that would have materialized if some league mechanism had allowed people to invest at the ground floor, given the sustained and measured growth of the league in recent years.  This kind of democratization of funding could be a powerful tool/incentive.

For some, the idea of an actual investment of $100 or $500 or $1000 could be a meaningful way to help bring all of this into fruition, while offering the potential to benefit in a tangible way over the long term.  It really is just running with the idea of assisting the league through some form of crowd-funding mechanism that isn't entirely altruistic.  Probably just daydreaming since we just got through tax season, and probably not feasible for a whole host of reasons, but interesting to consider

 

 

[Alex D]

I've always thought a simple way to connect with fans would be to give every season ticket holder a club membership. The membership then votes in a president and the president gets to sit on the board of directors. The "club president" would have no real power but would still give the fans a voice on the inside. 

[BuzzAndSting]

22 minutes ago, Alex D said:

I've always thought a simple way to connect with fans would be to give every season ticket holder a club membership. The membership then votes in a president and the president gets to sit on the board of directors. The "club president" would have no real power but would still give the fans a voice on the inside. 

That's a great idea but I don't think these teams will have a BoD. I imagine most will a managing group comprised of owners and key executives.