Victoria CPL

[Obinna]

On 5/20/2018 at 9:38 AM, Shortdutchcanuck said:

It would be awesome to have a few teams in CPL like Okanagan FC (even the name is fantastic!) but a lot of things have to come together perfectly for a team like that to work.  You need an ownership group with deep pockets willing to take the risk.  You need said ownership group and the city on board with building the stadium.  You need enough sponsorship money in that limited metropolitan area.  You need to overcome the challenge that outside that metropolitan area the population density is quite sparse.  You need to make spending money on soccer a priority in an area where a lot of the economy is seasonal and where although the population increases greatly in summer, people are also generally there to do things like boating, hunting, fishing, camping, mountain biking, rock climbing, etc.  In other words, even though there are no other major sports teams, there are still a lot of other options competing for people's money.  You need a much bigger % of neutrals (ie not hardcore soccer fans) to come on boards than in a city with twice or three times the available population.  

Going forward some of this will also depend on the level of ambition of CPL.  If it wants to exist going forward as a slightly higher quality USL type league I could see teams like this thriving.  If it wants to become a legitimate competitor with MLS going forward the level of investment and support needed will eliminate some of these smaller teams.  

Just for the sake of interest here is a list of Canadian metro areas (2017 #s, understanding these figures are not the be all and all of who might support a team, and that some of these figures just depend on where you draw the lines):

Toronto                                         6,346,088

Montreal                                       4,138,254

Vancouver                                    2,571,262

Calgary                                          1,488,841 

Edmonton                                     1,411,945

Ottawa-Gatineau                         1,377,016

Winnipeg                                          825,713

Quebec City                                     812,205

Hamilton                                          787,195

Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge   527,765

London                                             521,756

Halifax                                              431,701

St. Catharines - Niagara                 416,539

Oshawa                                             402,399

Victoria                                              377,414

Windsor                                             344,747

Saskatoon                                         323,809

Regina                                                253,220

St. John's                                           219,207

Sherbrooke                                        218,633

Barrie                                                  209,081

Kelowna                                             202,208

Abbotsford-Mission                         190,714

Kingston                                             173,862

Greater Sudbury                                165,270

 

Apologies if a list like this is already on here somewhere.  I just thought it might be interesting to note that there are still a number of options with significantly larger population bases for the early expansion phase.  And this is not even taking into account major suburbs like Surrey, Mississauga, Brampton, Laval, etc.  .  Quebec City, Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge, Saskatoon, London, Mississauga,  whichever of Victoria or Surrey is not Port City FC, and a suburb of Montreal are my 7 bets to be the 6 or so earliest additions to the league.  

I have family in Penticton so I'd be over the moon about a road trip to see Hamilton play Kelowna, but I do feel a little skeptical about everything coming together for that to happen.  On the other hand, if the league really catches fire you might see communities like Kelowna wanting to jump on board.

 

St. John's would be interesting. People already drive 4 hours to go to the one costco on the island, wouldn't rule out the same for a soccer match. The island is starved for pro sports or anything else connecting them to the outside world lol

Seriously though, if Calgar...i mean...Cavalry FC can play in 5k spruce meadows, why can't Newfoundland United play in 6.5k king george V? At least that ground has a football history...unlike spruce meadows ?

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

St. John's would be interesting. People already drive 4 hours to go to the one costco on the island, wouldn't rule out the same for a soccer match. The island is starved for pro sports or anything else connecting them to the outside world lol

Seriously though, if Calagr...i mean...Cavalry FC can play in 5k spruce meadows, why can't Newfoundland United play in 6.5k king george V? At least that ground has a football history...unlike spruce meadows ?

And green white and pink hoops would be dope. With a big ass Newfoundland dog in the logo

[Keegan]

I’d love to see teams in Quebec City and Saskatchewan by 2020.. this would make the league the one in Canada that literally connects people Coast to Coast. 

I wish I could say Niagara could host a team but I don’t see it.  I thought it would be badass if a city like Welland could rally around and support a club but really it would be Hamilton jr and detract from their base.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

30 minutes ago, Obinna said:

St. John's would be interesting. People already drive 4 hours to go to the one costco on the island, wouldn't rule out the same for a soccer match. The island is starved for pro sports or anything else connecting them to the outside world lol

Seriously though, if Calgar...i mean...Cavalry FC can play in 5k spruce meadows, why can't Newfoundland United play in 6.5k king george V? At least that ground has a football history...unlike spruce meadows ?

I know next to nothing about how well it would succeed but I'd love a team there. It would add so much to this league. 

[Ivan]

40 minutes ago, Keegan said:

 

I wish I could say Niagara could host a team but I don’t see it.  I thought it would be badass if a city like Welland could rally around and support a club but really it would be Hamilton jr and detract from their base.

A Niagara team would be awesome Keegan.  But I don't see it either.  Don't know where the financing (deep pocketed owner) would come from.  I suppose Welland could convert our white elephant baseball stadium to a soccer stadium.  I would think the new stadium proposed for Brock U. would be the better fit.

[Keegan]

2 hours ago, Ivan said:

A Niagara team would be awesome Keegan.  But I don't see it either.  Don't know where the financing (deep pocketed owner) would come from.  I suppose Welland could convert our white elephant baseball stadium to a soccer stadium.  I would think the new stadium proposed for Brock U. would be the better fit.

I was thinking the baseball stadium as well... seems that land has been empty for years and more subdivisions keep popping up around it.  I used to go to Niagara Stars baseball games there 15 years ago.. not many fans and not Sustainable unfortunately.  I get the feeling soccer could work though or even in the falls there are a lot of locations that could be viable. Not familiar with brocks new stadium that’s interesting as well and very central to niagara a population. 

[Zem]

10 hours ago, Obinna said:

St. John's would be interesting. People already drive 4 hours to go to the one costco on the island, wouldn't rule out the same for a soccer match. The island is starved for pro sports or anything else connecting them to the outside world lol

Seriously though, if Calgar...i mean...Cavalry FC can play in 5k spruce meadows, why can't Newfoundland United play in 6.5k king george V? At least that ground has a football history...unlike spruce meadows ?

We have heard rumours of the St. John's Edge ownership talking about starting a CPL club, but it was unclear if they've actually been in contact with the league or not.

There's no question that the culture is here already; the Challenge Cup is easily one of the best-supported men's amateur leagues in Canada and KGV is the oldest extant soccer-specific stadium in North America. And people go crazy for anything resembling professional sport. I think the only thing holding back a club from starting here is investment, so if the Edge ownership group decide to commit I think it'll be a great success, whether it's as one of the first 16 clubs or as part of CPL2. Halifax would be a good regional rival as well.

[C2SKI]

On 5/23/2018 at 8:35 AM, mpg_29 said:

"The CPL was a league which such promise...unfortunately they couldn't establish a foothold in the BC market which severely hurt the leagues chance to survive. 

It all started to crumble when the team couldn't get a stadium due to a telephone pole...."

The community and BC Hydro need to have some pressure put on them for this. We need some public outcry. Send your letters and tweets folks

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, SkuseisLoose said:

Are you suggesting he should allow the bitumen in at triple the amount? 

I'm suggesting he should let Westhills' capacity triple and get rid of the hydro pole, at the expense of people saying he is quick to "unblock" when he wants.

[shamrock]

Too bad the deal hangs on a stadium that's not even in a great location, as I understand. If they have to sit-out this first season, won't they be better off pursuing other options (RAP)?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

4 hours ago, shamrock said:

Too bad the deal hangs on a stadium that's not even in a great location, as I understand...

...and has permanently marked fieldturf with rugby lines, with nothing being mentioned so far about a new playing surface being installed, as far as I am aware.

[Rheo]

The longer this goes, I really think that we misinterpreted the announcement part of the Victoria story a couple of weeks ago.  In case you don't remember the exact wording

• Sources said a memorandum of understanding between the league and potential Victoria team officials is close and that an official announcement is about two weeks away.

 Given how the league has been rolling out the teams once a week and the schedule of team launch announcements that we know of for sure, I don't think that the announcement in question referenced above were for the official CPL launch.  I'd be willing the guess that it was a stadium announcement agreement from the city, let the mayor get his nice little PR moment and go from there to all the CPL issues they have to deal with the league itself, as Sandor's reported

• “They have to go through a vetting process,” Clanachan said of the Victoria interest. He said, though, as the league continues to do its due diligence on potential markets and investors, it is also getting quicker in determining if the boxes are being ticked off.

Now this is just my theory and I have tried to back it with some evidence but I really don't think that the league would rush a Victoria team launch to fit a small window in the known the launch calendar.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Rheo said:

The longer this goes, I really think that we misinterpreted the announcement part of the Victoria story a couple of weeks ago.  In case you don't remember the exact wording

• Sources said a memorandum of understanding between the league and potential Victoria team officials is close and that an official announcement is about two weeks away.

 Given how the league has been rolling out the teams once a week and the schedule of team launch announcements that we know of for sure, I don't think that the announcement in question referenced above were for the official CPL launch.  I'd be willing the guess that it was a stadium announcement agreement from the city, let the mayor get his nice little PR moment and go from there to all the CPL issues they have to deal with the league itself, as Sandor's reported

• “They have to go through a vetting process,” Clanachan said of the Victoria interest. He said, though, as the league continues to do its due diligence on potential markets and investors, it is also getting quicker in determining if the boxes are being ticked off.

Now this is just my theory and I have tried to back it with some evidence but I really don't think that the league would rush a Victoria team launch to fit a small window in the known the launch calendar.

As I've looked at Port City with more attention, and from various things said here, I would tend to agree.  Victoria seems to have said they'd like to take advantage of the initial roll-out and that it would benefit them. So they are getting into this with Langford supporting them, but are separate from the Fraser Valley initiative.

I seriously doubt Rob Friend and co would be going to a CSA meeting a month ago without anything to show for their Fraser Valley efforts. The Port City name, while most think it is just a pseudonym, would actually make sense if they went for North Surrey, Bridgeview, which they had as a possible location for a stadium. There is city land in the area. They probably need to work with the city on stadium location and do the prep to show something, not just a building but an entire set of responses to residents and other stakeholders. I am actualy quite optimistic about the Fraser Valley bid and think that they'll surprise us, if they don't I'll be very surprised. And if they end up rolling out Victoria as a last second parachute because the attempt at Surrey failed, I am not sure I would trust these people as an ownership group for anything.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Have no strong opinion either way on this one, because on the one hand I don't see why TSS Rovers or whatever they are called would block the use of Swangard if sufficient financial inducements were offered where any exclusive lease they may hold is concerned and why CanPL wouldn't want to use a stadium that worked so well in the past for the 86ers and the Whitecaps if York U is viewed as a viable interim venue in the GTA for a York Region team, but on the other side of things I have been surprised that info from posters like Xavier and nolbertoS who appear to have definitely had either first or second hand connections to the would be Fraser Valley group is so quickly discounted when they have mentioned on here recently that a stadium in Surrey isn't happening.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Have no strong opinion either way on this one, because on the one hand I don't see why TSS Rovers or whatever they are called would block the use of Swangard if sufficient financial inducements were offered where any exclusive lease they may hold is concerned and why CanPL wouldn't want to use a stadium that worked so well in the past for the 86ers and the Whitecaps if York U is viewed as a viable interim venue in the GTA for a York Region team, but on the other side of things I have been surprised that info from posters like Xavier and nolbertoS who appear to have definitely had either first or second hand connections to the would be Fraser Valley group is so quickly discounted when they have mentioned on here recently that a stadium in Surrey isn't happening.

From what I gathered, Xavier is a graphic designer who was asked to do some ideas for them, based on what someone (you) recalled about them not being allowed to use green, as two other clubs were using it.  And in those terms had some inside information. He also said he lives in Oak Bay (which is east Victoria for those who don't know) and that Victoria is not a port city, so that would suggest he is both radically ignorant of where he lives, and that the Port City bid would NOT be from Victoria: since why would they be using the name a month ago if, according to him, it was meant for a city without docks?

We have also heard that Josh Simpson, who is in Switzerland, was encouraged by Friend to get involved with a possible Victoria bid, but that it seemed clear that Simpson was not just joining Friend on the bid. He was going to play a Friend-Brennan type role for Victoria. 

In the light of what we are seeing with new bids and stadium ideas, Swangard now looks and feels outdated. It has a track, the main stand is in good shape but really set back. The City of Burnaby has been notoriously reluctant to do upgrades which would make it more amenable, often for very odd reasons. It could be given a permament configuration like at the World U-20s and have a stand on the opposite side near the pitch, extend the original Southside, even northside stand, bringing a larger proportion of fans closer to the field. As is, if you go to the Southside you will have fun, but you'll be there with 100 fans or so for TSS, while for the Caps before you maybe got to 300 on a good day. It is not enough.

[nolbertos]

3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Have no strong opinion either way on this one, because on the one hand I don't see why TSS Rovers or whatever they are called would block the use of Swangard if sufficient financial inducements were offered where any exclusive lease they may hold is concerned and why CanPL wouldn't want to use a stadium that worked so well in the past for the 86ers and the Whitecaps if York U is viewed as a viable interim venue in the GTA for a York Region team, but on the other side of things I have been surprised that info from posters like Xavier and nolbertoS who appear to have definitely had either first or second hand connections to the would be Fraser Valley group is so quickly discounted when they have mentioned on here recently that a stadium in Surrey isn't happening.

I’ll add more to this as I use to live near Swangard.  The City of Burnaby gives priorities to public institutions than private investors to use the park.  Thats another reason why WFC2 moves to Langley as the City couldn’t guarantee dates.  Moreover there has been public outcry of expanding the stadium as it is within a very popular park, thats touristy for some. So City Hall is weary of ever expanding the stadium moreso than what it is now.  Swangard is also in need of an upgrade, so wouldn’t surprise me if the City either demolished it completely someday or try to give it a facelift.  Locals around that area aren’t going to lose sleep if Swangard disappears.  With land in Burnaby just as expensive as Vancouver, City Hall could probablh get more money out of a condo development, if it wanted.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

OK, sounds like Swangard isn't as likely to be a viable option for this level of soccer as I thought it would probably still be. No new countdown so far on the CPL website suggests something is supposed to happen next week before Winnipeg on June 6th but isn't fully confirmed yet. That still appears to me to point to Victoria (OK really Langford) and its now infamous hydro pole being one of the intended series of team announcements in response to the four new CSA memberships with a view to their intended 2019 launch rather than something separate and additional. Time will tell obviously.

[Unnamed Trialist]

There is another downside to Swangard: it is actually not far from downtown Vancouver. If you live beside Swangard you can get on the Skytrain and be at BC Place in half an hour, or so, meaning it is clearly within the Whitecaps direct captation area. By opting for Swangard, a CPL team would not be making a bet on the growing demographic south of the Fraser River, it'd be going back to the old formula in terms of demographics. It would also mean expecting all those new areas, on the rise, with more ambition and greater margin to grow and invest, to pick up and head out to Vancouver again to see pro sports. 

A Fraser Valley team is a bold idea, if they can make it work, because it definitively makes a claim for a new focal point in Greater Vancouver. 

 

[Watchmen]

Surrey has been searching for a sports team for a while to call it's own, as a way to distinguish itself from Vancouver and build it's own identity.  I'm sure that's why they've been interested in a CPL team.  But I'm also sure that's why the name Port City (if it's not just a place holder) is actually a major hold up.  If they want their name out there, they want their name out there...Surrey, not "Port City".  And if the ownership group is insisting on Port City (for whatever reason), then I can see the city not bothering with the stadium funding.

[SpursFlu]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

There is another downside to Swangard: it is actually not far from downtown Vancouver. If you live beside Swangard you can get on the Skytrain and be at BC Place in half an hour, or so, meaning it is clearly within the Whitecaps direct captation area. By opting for Swangard, a CPL team would not be making a bet on the growing demographic south of the Fraser River, it'd be going back to the old formula in terms of demographics. It would also mean expecting all those new areas, on the rise, with more ambition and greater margin to grow and invest, to pick up and head out to Vancouver again to see pro sports. 

A Fraser Valley team is a bold idea, if they can make it work, because it definitively makes a claim for a new focal point in Greater Vancouver. 

 

I totally agree but even more so, Swangard to BC Place is maybe 15 minutes. And since everything runs east from dt.. It's the same place

 

For what  it' worth a few years ago I was told most Caps season ticket holders by city was.. 1) Vancouver 2) Coquitlam 3) New West 4) Burnaby 5) North Van

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The countdown is now 11 days 6 hours and that points firmly to what is already known to be happening in Winnipeg, so time may have just run out on Victoria at least where 2019 is concerned given I think (i.e. please correct me on this if it is incorrect) Paul Beirne has stated that FIFA's World Cup 2026 hosting vote in mid-June is when the participants for the first season are supposed to be known by.

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Surrey has been searching for a sports team for a while to call it's own, as a way to distinguish itself from Vancouver and build it's own identity.  I'm sure that's why they've been interested in a CPL team.  But I'm also sure that's why the name Port City (if it's not just a place holder) is actually a major hold up.  If they want their name out there, they want their name out there...Surrey, not "Port City".  And if the ownership group is insisting on Port City (for whatever reason), then I can see the city not bothering with the stadium funding.

I agree, if you are putting up the money then you should have the right to the name.

I know of teams that have done combinations of names to solve this (a team up the coast from Barcelona that did 6 promotions in 9 years to get to 2nd division Spain, Llagostera, did not have a grass field so played in a stadium 20 km away, on the Costa Brava, a big tourist destination; they are still called Llagostera-Costa Brava). 

Surrey-Port City (or reverse) though, in marketing terms is not really cool and does not roll off your tongue. The concern has to be, from the team's point of view, that if you say Surrey, you will only draw Surrey fans. But if you say Port City and are in Surrey, you won't have "symbolic" problems drawing fans from the entire Fraser Valley and even Vancouver. 

What I am wondering is if the Port City name, for a team in Surrey, is in fact the compromise. Surrey has a port authority on the Fraser, and the name reminds us of this, so actually promotes part of Surrey economy and gives the city another angle most people don't think of.

[SpursFlu]

I think the mayor of Halifax said it best. Finally Halifax will get a seat at the table with other big cities in Canada. That's probable exactly what Surrey wants. I don't care about the name so much but somewhere in the teams identity it should give the impression to people that it represents Surrey or the Fraser Valley. Not that it's just a team for the general area of Vancouver 

 

Creating that distinct identity will also galvanize the community to support. You don't want to look at a team and be like.. ah ok is that my team? Considering nobody as far as I can see who is involved with the team has any connection to the Fraser Valley. That's probably where the disconnect comes from

[Xavier]

Well this thread has become complete non sense and there is barely any discussion about Victoria.

 

Well done, V’s.

[Unnamed Trialist]

19 minutes ago, Xavier said:

Well this thread has become complete non sense and there is barely any discussion about Victoria.

 

Well done, V’s.

This is from the guy who told us Victoria does not have a port.

If that is your idea of sense, Xavier, I think our non-sense is looking pretty good.

But again, instead of taunting like an 8-year old, tell us what you know instead of being a prat.