EODSA/Soccer Ontario fiasco

[Protega]

This was discussed a bit under the Academies vs. OPDL topic, but I thought I'd start a new one because of some recent developments in the Ottawa area.  As mentioned, the 8 largest clubs are in the process of forming an unsanctioned league (OPDP) at the U9 - U12 age groups where their first teams would play.  This is being driven by the two Ottawa-area OPDL clubs, with support from six other clubs.  Their primary reason comes down to $$$ - they are trying to avoid playing against certain opposition that make them look bad on the field (to decrease the chances of kids moving to those programs) and they likely have a concern that more academies will sprout up over time like in Toronto (thereby leaving less cash for these OPDP clubs).  The OPDP clubs have actually changed their admission criteria three times because one club unexpectedly met all criteria in the first two versions.

In any case, these two clubs have been trying to fill EODSA board spots with their own people in order to take control of the district and then force its dissolution.  If the EODSA is dissolved, that would leave no Ottawa league being administered by the EODSA or Soccer Ontario, in which case they see an opportunity to operate this league without governance from above.

Soccer Ontario has been unwilling/hesitant to get involved, likely because they are desperate to keep the OPDL going.  In the past they have been very quick to shut down unsanctioned leagues, whereas they are letting this matter drag on and on.  Their excuse is that because these are EODSA members and as a result, the EODSA should deal with it, despite the board members' conflicts of interest (how an unsanctioned team/player/club can be considered a member of a district is beyond me; also, how these individuals can sit on a board and others in the eye while trying to destroy the organization is disgusting).

While these events are troubling, I'm wondering whether this might be the opportunity for academies and the clubs left out of the OPDP to form their own league.  If Soccer Ontario is unwilling to do anything about this OPDP rogue league, it would be hypocritical on their part to shut down other leagues.  In the Ottawa area, a frustrating issue is the border with Quebec and the fact that Ottawa teams aren't allowed to play in Quebec/Montreal leagues, which would provide better competition and a reasonable travel schedule - maybe this is an opportunity for Ottawa academies and clubs to join with Quebec academies and form their own league.  Maybe this opens the door for similar arrangements in other border cities and even the rest of the province. 

[Saviola7]

I did notice that opdp.ca is down, so I still hope for a quick resolution.

I still don't understand it really though. I haven't done much research, but scanning tournament/Ontario Cup results and provincial (even national) team selections, it doesn't strike me that Futuro is head and shoulders above the rest. I also don't understand how that club/academy works either since it looks like they have teams in ERSL, but are also a part of SAAC now? Do they really do that well that they draw players away?

Gary Miller did say at an OPDL information night that they had thought about somehow connecting the Ottawa clubs with the Gatineau region, but he didn't really elaborate.

 

[Protega]

27 minutes ago, Saviola7 said:

I did notice that opdp.ca is down, so I still hope for a quick resolution.

I still don't understand it really though. I haven't done much research, but scanning tournament/Ontario Cup results and provincial (even national) team selections, it doesn't strike me that Futuro is head and shoulders above the rest. I also don't understand how that club/academy works either since it looks like they have teams in ERSL, but are also a part of SAAC now? Do they really do that well that they draw players away?

Gary Miller did say at an OPDL information night that they had thought about somehow connecting the Ottawa clubs with the Gatineau region, but he didn't really elaborate.

 

I think the opdp.ca site is down because they're taking it underground - e-mailing schedules, etc.  But the clubs are actively doing everything they can to shut the EODSA down in time to be able to start a new league.  If that doesn't happen, they'll probably just play it unsanctioned, knowing that Soccer Ontario doesn't give a shit.

Futuro tends to lose players after U12 because of OPDL, but I think it's been happening less lately.  So you wouldn't see scores below U13, but they're definitely at a different level from other programs in Ottawa.  The older teams would be a bit weaker relatively because their players are aggressively targeted by the ODPL clubs - even losing a handful of average players has a big impact on a team.  It would be interesting to see kids go through that program from U9 - U17 though - I think you would see some excellent players develop.

[SF]

This kind of nonsense (and I make no judgment on who is "right" or "wrong" on the clubs vs. district issue), is precisely why Canada is such a massive under-achiever in soccer.

There is no meaningful administrative leadership.  

From my own experience, I am quite certain in saying that the clubs argue the district and the province are incompetent (they might be), the district argues that the clubs don't follow the rules (they might not) and the province argues something.  And I am also quite certain that each party has "God on their side" (to quote Bob Dylan).  Utter madness.

The biggest losers here are the players and any potential they might posses.  Until Canada comes to the realization that we are awful at soccer and that this is one of the biggest reasons, we'll continue to be awful.  Unfortunately, coming to this realization will require a great deal of critical introspection which doesn't seem forthcoming.

[Protega]

Sets a dangerous precedent though.  Procedure 17.0 (Exhibition games) in Section 8.0 (Competitions) of Soccer Ontario's Operational Procedures is clear that an exhibition game cannot be part of a "set schedule of games", which is exactly what they're allowing here.  They've simply agreed that if they don't have a public website and don't market the unsanctioned league, they will let them carry on with it.  At this point there's nothing to prevent fragmentation of competitions all over the province.

I know that these clubs have told parents to keep quiet about everything, but I could see a disgruntled parent at some point providing evidence of the scheduling to Soccer Ontario.  Not that they would do anything about it though.

[Kent]

3 hours ago, SF said:

This kind of nonsense (and I make no judgment on who is "right" or "wrong" on the clubs vs. district issue), is precisely why Canada is such a massive under-achiever in soccer.

There is no meaningful administrative leadership.  

From my own experience, I am quite certain in saying that the clubs argue the district and the province are incompetent (they might be), the district argues that the clubs don't follow the rules (they might not) and the province argues something.  And I am also quite certain that each party has "God on their side" (to quote Bob Dylan).  Utter madness.

The biggest losers here are the players and any potential they might posses.  Until Canada comes to the realization that we are awful at soccer and that this is one of the biggest reasons, we'll continue to be awful.  Unfortunately, coming to this realization will require a great deal of critical introspection which doesn't seem forthcoming.

Yeah. I used to think our problem was that we didn't have soccer experts. I've come to realize though that our problem is that everybody is a (self-proclaimed) expert, so they think they don't have to cooperate with other people.

[Saviola7]

http://www.ottawastanthony.ca/open-letter-to-the-ottawa-soccer-community-to-speak-out-against-segregation/

It all does sound pretty shocking. I think painting it as immigrant exclusion is a tad disingenuous, but their point still stands.

 

I'm not sure what the end game is here either. Do the seven clubs intend on playing in an offline "league" for years to come? Doesn't seem too sustainable.

[Protega]

EODSA President recently resigned (or was somehow forced out) and replaced by WOS' President - so yet another conflict of interest.  How this piece of crap can sit at a table and smile at everyone, when everyone knows he's only at the table trying to shut the district down is beyond me.  Same goes for the OSU and Internationals representatives.  Apparently the non-OPDP board members feel the matter still needs to be looked into because they are obviously just operating underground.  The OPDP members are trying to argue that there is no website, so there is no reason to investigate anything.

Soccer Ontario isn't willing to step in - they say because these clubs are members of the EODSA, the EODSA has to deal with it.  They know as well as anyone that the EODSA board is compromised because most of the board members have a conflict of interest, but they're still unwilling to do anything (they've always been all over other unsanctioned leagues, so my guess is they don't want to discipline the OPDL clubs in this case).  So I guess the immigrant exclusion angle is the only way to draw any media attention to it.  On a side note, I think the arrangement with the Somali group Surad is great - many of those kids come from underprivileged backgrounds and there are some negative influences in some of their neighbourhoods. It's great that they able to get them together in organized sport in a safe and friendly environment.  The people running Surad are doing a great job with those kids, for the Somali community and for the city in general.

I don't understand how OPDP parents aren't asking more questions.  I know of some parents who aren't too happy because many of the teams that will be playing in the  OPDP are quite weak anyway, so their kids are actually losing three or four competitive games that they would have otherwise had.

[Levi Oakey]

Incredible. In this day and age. What do Ottawa South have to say for themselves, and for that matter League1 Ontario. 

[Kent]

20 hours ago, Levi Oakey said:

Incredible. In this day and age. What do Ottawa South have to say for themselves, and for that matter League1 Ontario. 

Yeah, maybe L1O has to step up. This behaviour is pretty unbecoming of a club with L1O ties.

[Protega]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

Yeah, maybe L1O has to step up. This behaviour is pretty unbecoming of a club with L1O ties.

Since Soccer Ontario oversees L1O, I can't see that happening.  They're already passing the buck to the EODSA, knowing that nothing can be accomplished at that level.

These clubs seem pretty confident that no one will do anything to them.  Remember - if two OPDL clubs from Toronto were kicked out, that's not great (or maybe it is, actually), but if two OPDL clubs from Ottawa are kicked out, there's no more OPDL in Ottawa.  Same goes for L1O.

EODSA (and WOS) President just issued a letter yesterday saying that these clubs have decided not to re-enter the ERSL and that they can't be forced to go back.  It also goes on to say that if anyone has evidence that OPDP is operating, they can report it to the EODSA Executive Director.  I'm pretty sure the parents won't see a reduction in fees as a result of no league fees.  Reduced fees don't pay for those reserved parking spots at George Nelms Park.

[MM2]

The complete EODSA statement from their website:

May 3, 2017

Re: Ottawa Player Development Program (OPDP)

Dear Members,

The Eastern Ontario District Soccer Association (EODSA) is sending out this communication

to provide clarification and an update regarding the situation involving the Ottawa Player

Development Program (OPDP).

A number of Clubs within the EODSA chose to withdraw some of their team entries from

the Grassroots divisions being offered by the East Region Soccer League (ERSL). Clubs are

permitted to withdraw teams from league divisions and the EODSA is not permitted to

reject a Club’s team withdrawal. The EODSA is not permitted to force a Club to re‐enter

teams in a division from which it has withdrawn.

It was brought to the EODSA’s attention that these Clubs were intending to operate a

Program/League that was not an approved or sanctioned Program/League of the EODSA or

Ontario Soccer.

The EODSA has been managing this situation over the last month as per Ontario Soccer

Procedures. The OPDP situation has come to a conclusion as of April 27th, 2017 with a

written confirmation that the OPDP website had been shut down and that the OPDP would

not operate.

The Clubs have chosen not to re‐enter withdrawn teams in the ERSL and that is a choice

they are permitted to make. The Clubs will be looking at alternate competition options

within the rules defined by the EODSA and Ontario Soccer. The EODSA will continue to

monitor the situation to ensure competitions are within Ontario Soccer Procedures.

If any Clubs have evidence that proves this Program/League is operating, they can send the

information to Joe Scheier at admin@eodsa.ca and the EODSA will review and manage

accordingly.

Sincerely,

Brian Mason

EODSA President

 

[Shway]

My god brothers who are between 15-17 have told me about the annual cost ($5,000) for the OPDL and it's stupid crazy to think that out of nowhere (baring no results, or inproved development) they want to charge these astronomical prices for these "elite" programs.

Where does this money go?

Not to the maintenance of the turf fields.

Not to improvement to facilities and training equipment.

I hope it's not going to these farcical technical directors who bare no fruit's (excluding a very few amount of youth clubs)

[Protega]

So the OPDP league gets underway this Sunday under a shroud of secrecy.  The clubs will not provide schedules to the parents for fear someone will leak it to the EODSA/OSA (as if they would actually do anything about it), so parents will be getting an e-mail every week letting them know where, when and against whom their "exhibition game" that week is.

Incidentally, one of these OPDP clubs' U12 team played a friendly game against the club they are trying to freeze out.  Very lopsided game in favour of the non-OPDP team (the score of 10-2 was very flattering to the OPDP team, which is actually one of the two strongest teams in the OPDP U12 age group).  I do applaud them for being willing to play the game, and I think it shows that not everyone within the rogue group sees eye-to-eye on this.  I hope it was a wake-up call to the parents that this rogue league is not being run with their children's interests in mind.  If it were, they would be looking to provide them with stronger competition, not trying to avoid strong competition.  Or, parents can stick their heads in the sand and feel good about their kids' team winning a bunch of games against weaker teams.

[1996]

On 2017-05-08 at 1:26 PM, Jahinho Guerro said:

My god brothers who are between 15-17 have told me about the annual cost ($5,000) for the OPDL and it's stupid crazy to think that out of nowhere (baring no results, or inproved development) they want to charge these astronomical prices for these "elite" programs.

Where does this money go?

Not to the maintenance of the turf fields.

Not to improvement to facilities and training equipment.

I hope it's not going to these farcical technical directors who bare no fruit's (excluding a very few amount of youth clubs)

Technical directors of youth clubs making 100000 and some clubs even having CEO's who do nothing all day but making over 100000 I'm talking to you a certain  youth club about 30 minutes north of Toronto who are paying someone most soccer fans know , but yet these clubs like this particular one who also has a team in L1 Ontario have no money to pay their L10 players but have over 100000 to pay for a guy who does nothing to sit on his ass all day, this is why we suck at soccer in this country, we have all these kids that play yet we still suck, so much wasted money!

[Protega]

Lots of evidence at the link below that the 8 clubs involved in the OPDP lied about canceling the OPDP unsanctioned league (detailed schedules for the entire season, e-mails from club officials referring to the OPDP even after they agreed to cease, suggestions that the EODSA has blessed this league so long as they refer to the games as "exhibition games" even though there are set schedules from May - October,...).  Does anyone have suggestions for how to actually get Ontario Soccer to enforce its own rules?  The EODSA is obviously compromised (six of ten directors are from OPDP clubs and are effectively inhibiting the EODSA's employees' ability to deal with this), yet Soccer Ontario wants to sweep it under the rug.  Is there any way the CSA would get involved in this, given the collusion that seems to be taking place at all levels in Ontario?

http://fairnessinottawasoccer.org

 

[Saviola7]

Interesting comment from the top post:

"The problem is bigger than this. Pricey academy that poach player from clubs and do not operate grassroot program and poorly set up leagues where scores of 10-0 are frequent are big problems against proper talent development. Not good for anyone. The LTPD has value, but teams need to be better assessed for inclusion in top tiers leagues to ensure proper development for all involved. Furthermore, there should be rules supporting clubs who run grassroot program in early ages and prevent poaching from money makers who have no true commitment to development under Ontario's LTPD regime. The solution lies somewhere in the middle."

So the point of contention is the lack of house league/grassroots programs. I can buy that to some extent given that grassroots is fundamental to growing the game and identifying talent (it is also very much an OPDL principle). Still a tough argument to swallow given that at least one of the academies in question is tied to a club with a grassroots program, no? Furthermore, pulling it offline is not the way to proceed - change the system, don't circumvent it.

That kind of club/academy arrangement it is a bit strange to me. In Peel-Halton, I'm not aware of any hybrid club/academies (i.e., clubs with affiliated academies). You find either clubs or for-profit setups. I'm not sure if that is by regulation by the district or that type of setup has not emerged yet. 

[Protega]

Not sure where that person is from, but the costs of the academies in Ottawa are similar to the stronger clubs.  I also find most of the poaching the other way - clubs constantly calling or e-mailing parents (or sometimes setting up "chance encounters", which is really creepy).  Most of the players I've known who have switched from club to academy did so after seeing the academy teams play against their child's team.

The academies in question do operate grassroots programs.  Some are run as skill development programs, while others are combinations of skill development/house league.  They are actually quite similar to what some of the clubs operate.

I agree that there is a big gap in the level of qualify within the same division, but I think you will find that it is always the clubs that are at the bottom end of that - the only reason a club would enter multiple teams in tier 1 for example is that it's easier to sell to parents.  If a club determines that in a specific age group they would have 2 teams that would be competitive at tier 1, I'm fine with that.  But the big clubs enter 2 (or more if they can) teams without giving it any thought.  Clubs should really consider on a case-by-case basis whether they should even enter one team at tier 1.

I always thought the house league requirement was one of Ontario Soccer's ways of ensuring smaller programs are kept out of OPDL.  If you look at OSU, they operate a huge house league, but the stronger players at U6 - U8 don't even participate in it (they would be in a separate program).  If house league play was so critical to player development, would they not be required to make all kids play in the house league?  I could be wrong, but I can't think of any countries other than Canada and the US that run house league programs like we have here.  They are nothing more than cash-generating systems to pay the salaries for some of the club executives (and to pay for their reserved parking spots).

[04dad]

error

[Saviola7]

1 hour ago, Protega said:

I always thought the house league requirement was one of Ontario Soccer's ways of ensuring smaller programs are kept out of OPDL.  If you look at OSU, they operate a huge house league, but the stronger players at U6 - U8 don't even participate in it (they would be in a separate program).  If house league play was so critical to player development, would they not be required to make all kids play in the house league?  I could be wrong, but I can't think of any countries other than Canada and the US that run house league programs like we have here.  They are nothing more than cash-generating systems to pay the salaries for some of the club executives (and to pay for their reserved parking spots).

Interesting line of thought. You are correct, in other countries OSU U9f would play in a division full of equally weak squads (WOSC U9f, Cumberland U9d, etc) and no house league would exist.

The idea behind encouraging house league programs is that they are a low cost and low time commitment environment to develop a love of the game. While strong players will typically find their way into the competitive stream on their own, some may be identified from house league. House league is not critical for developing a given player (although it can help for some players), but it is critical to drawing people into the game. If you only have competitive teams you can have scenarios where you cut players from your club/academy completely. With a house league, there is always a place for somebody to play.

Is it an effective system? I think is accommodates a wide variety of commitment levels which at this point I don't think we can exclude. Other countries have a culture, singularly sport focused, and a concentration of talent for geographical reasons. Our only advantage is high participation rates which we very much need to leverage.

[Saviola7]

I was thinking more on this and I find it odd that clubs are a afraid of losing players after losing to a strong team. My experience is that the strong teams ebb and flow and a strong club in one age group does not necessarily predict a strong club in another age group. So what if you lose 10-0 and a bunch of players go to that club. At the age group below you'll beat them 10-0 and they'll all come to you. Furthermore, there are only Ottawa is large enough that even if the top 5 kids go to this one team, you can still make up a strong team with players ranked 5 - 30.

[Kent]

When I was a kid we won with big score lines several times a season (small town soccer though). In those games there were usually 1 or 0 players from the other team that would have been good enough to play for us though. I can't imagine there being a significant number of players on a team that just lost 10-0 that would be good enough to replace players on the team that won that game.

[Protega]

Some updates on the situation, including an article in a local sports publication (finally, one media outlet has taken an interest, although they don't appear to have a full grasp of the issues).

https://fairnessinsoccer.blogspot.ca/

Not surprisingly, the disciplinary hearing has been delayed.  I may be a pessimist, but I still get the feeling everyone will walk away from there more or less unscathed.

[Saviola7]

I'm hoping that a clear message will be sent, but I also hope that what is good in those clubs can be salvaged.

[Protega]

Rumour is that Soccer Ontario ruled on this issue with the eight Ottawa clubs a couple of weeks ago, but the EODSA isn't providing information to members as it is supposed to.  In any case, sounds like they're letting them continue with their unsanctioned league.  I know that one of the clubs does all the scheduling for these "exhibition games" - even the games they aren't involved in.

Anyone know of other unsanctioned leagues operating in Ontario?  Just wondering whether everyone gets the same treatment as this group, or whether this is a green light for groups to start up their own leagues?