Ryan Telfer

[Shway]

1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

+1.

Also, further to that, doesn't Pasquotti play a similar position?  Wouldn't Telfer be in competition with him as well?  And Borges?  I don't even think he's the best Canadian at that position in CPL, so not sure why the hand-wringing over capping him.

+1.

From a winger standpoint Pasquotti has been the most impressive, (even though he doesn't have much skill) his work ethic down the right side is phenomenal. 

As for Telfer I think people are clamouring over capping him just so he can't come back to bite us in the ass somehow....So give him the Teal treatment. Cap him once - good luck after that. 

[Aird25]

I'd probably call Blasco ahead of Telfer too. 

[Macksam]

Telfer should be called for the Olympics qualifying.

[Fullback]

2 minutes ago, Macksam said:

Telfer should be called for the Olympics qualifying.

Three years too old

[Macksam]

4 minutes ago, Fullback said:

Three years too old

Dam, he's gonna be 26....had no idea. I thought he was younger.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Macksam

[red card]

3 hours ago, El Hombre said:

+1.

Also, further to that, doesn't Pasquotti play a similar position?  Wouldn't Telfer be in competition with him as well?  And Borges?  I don't even think he's the best Canadian at that position in CPL, so not sure why the hand-wringing over capping him.

I think its the MLS bias, TFC bias and size/speed/strength bias. Some are also thinking like this was the national team pool of 5 years ago when these type of players would have been selected for at least a match.

Like you, I don't consider Telfer a top 5 Canadian CPL player. He shows flashes of brilliance but most of the time he isn't noticeable. I thought he would dominate more consistently and carry York9 in certain matches. Though, there hasn't been an attacking player in the CPL who has consistently dominated . But Pasquotti & Borges are the closest in achieving it.

[El Diego]

Telfer is a nice option, but by no means do we need to cap him. As others have pointed out he's not the top CPL attacker and probably not even top 10 based on performances this season. Also, his versatility is overrated imo. He's looked completely out of place when I've seen him in central midfield this season, and from what I've seen of him at left back (for TFC previously) he'd get eaten alive there.

[shamrock]

Comparable to Kyle Porter in that both are wingers that can play all positions on the same side, both have been in MLS (which was obviously a step too far) and both players excel in CPL at the moment. Porter has caps behind his name as would Telfer if it were 5 years ago. Porter could barely cut it in USL btw, so that tells you all about the current CPL level. I'm glad we don't need guys like that anymore for the MNT. 

[Obinna]

Who is and isn't a top 5 player in the CPL is subjective, first of all, but even if we objectively say he isn't a top 5 player doesn't necessarily mean he should or shouldn't be capped. Sometimes we see players get capped because they have particular attributes a team needs.

Nobody is claiming that Telfer is a better player than Borges, or more of a consistent threat than Pasquotti (who I think is great by the way). Convential wisdom would say those players deserve a look before Telfer and I wouldn't necessarily complain if they did to be honest.

But Telfer I think can be useful to us and it would be a shame if he joined T&T.

Yes he fades in and out of games, but he'd probably never be a starter for us anyways. He could be a niche player we could bring in for certain situations, not necessarily ahead of Akindele or Tabla or Millar or Adekugbe, all of which are deserving of their place ahead of him

And @red card, noting a players speed and strength is different than having a bias for those players in general. I for one am glad our team has a lot of technical players now, but having a few physical/fast players sprinkled in is not a bad thing, is it?

At the end of the day, Telfer will do what is best and we'll all move on and wish him luck, but I am fairly confident he will end up being a useful player for T&T, which is a team we may have to get through to reach the world cup.

But I guess now that we have players attached to big clubs, it's all gravy that someone like Telfer can slip through the net and join T&T without the slightest of concerns... 

[Obinna]

4 hours ago, Macksam said:

Telfer should be called for the Olympics qualifying.

He is too old.

Players like Telfer and Pasquotti miss out on Olympics and that's why we need some domestic b-camps. I know it won't happen, but I wish it did.

You know, we have CPL and it's been great. It gives uncapped Canadian players in particular a platform to show themselves. Naturally, some of these players will end up play elsewhere if they can't find an opportunity with Canada. That is to be expected, but if our mission is to develop Canadian players and those players increasingly do not turn out for Canada, that's not so good for us. 

Solution? Run more domestic camps. Get some of these guys involved. They may still deflect in the end, but at least we would have done our part, instead of standing ideally by as the CPL inadvertently develops players for other concacaf nations.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Obinna

[RS]

3 hours ago, Aird25 said:

I'd probably call Blasco ahead of Telfer too. 

Is he even eligible?

[deschamp86]

17 minutes ago, RS said:

Is he even eligible?

CanPL site has him listed as Spanish nationality, but then Tomi Ameobi as Canadian (even though he only has PR). 

Not sure how they decide what to list people as, but I am fairly certain he is not eligible

[Aird25]

9 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

CanPL site has him listed as Spanish nationality, but then Tomi Ameobi as Canadian (even though he only has PR). 

Not sure how they decide what to list people as, but I am fairly certain he is not eligible

Blasco has been in Canada for 5+ years so I imagine he should be. As far as I know nobody has asked about his eligibility yet. Somehow 

[RS]

5 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Blasco has been in Canada for 5+ years so I imagine he should be. As far as I know nobody has asked about his eligibility yet. Somehow 

He needs citizenship regardless of how long he's been here.

[Shway]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

But I guess now that we have players attached to big clubs it's all gravy that someone like Telfer can slip through the net and join T&T without the slightest of concerns... 

This is my biggest concern. 

It's one day we have guys playing at Barcelona, Liverpool, playing in the EPL. And the next they're back where they started or playing lower league ball. I think sometimes we're resting on the laurels of potential which can be absent of current form.

With that, we overlook some guys and then we end up losing a quarter final to a team with 3 Canadian born players. 

Cap him.

[El Hombre]

2 hours ago, red card said:

I think its the MLS bias, TFC bias and size/speed/strength bias.

I would actually say that it is a bias based on an inferiority complex.  The minute any other country shows any interest in any Canadian players, people start viewing them as potentially more talented than they might perhaps be.

Remember when DeRosario was trying to recruit O'Brien White away from Jamaica?  Or when Roberto Stillo and Adam Street were considering Italy/England?  Or when Oscar Cordon mentioned that he might consider Guatemala?  Or when Keven Aleman was going to play for Costa Rica?  Or when Marco Bustos flirted with Chile?  Or when Jakob Lensky and Kris Twardek chose the Czech Republic?

[dyslexic nam]

4 minutes ago, Shway said:

This is my biggest concern. 

It's one day we have guys playing at Barcelona, Liverpool, playing in the EPL. And the next they're back where they started or playing lower league ball. I think sometimes we're resting on the laurels of potential which can be absent of current form.

With that, we overlook some guys and then we end up losing a quarter final to a team with 3 Canadian born players. 

Cap him.

A couple of things wrong with this IMO.

1 - If we cynically cap a player just to deny another country the chance (thereby denying the player any shot at a meaningful international career) word will get around and we WILL lose dual nationals in the future - or at least have them delay accepting the call. 

2 - I don't think an inability to crack the starting lineup at Bayern or the first team at Barca and Liverpool means that we are coasting or that we aren't developing new players.  I think we have permanently turned a corner in both the quantity and quality of professional footballers that will come out of this country.  Not just due to CPL or the MLS academies - the amount of developmental opportunities for budding soccer players has exploded over the last decade or two.  I see it as a parent and as someone involved in the local soccer community.   We have permanently moved out of the dark ages and will never go back.  It is no coincidence that Davies, David, Millar, and Tabla (the players we have collectively gotten excited about) are all young guys with huge ceilings.  This is reflective of the current development system.  Maybe I am a hopeless optimist, but I fully believe that we will not be able to cap the amount of talented players we will be churning out from this point on. 

I have absolutely advocated for capping young guys who show huge promise.  Tabla is one of the more recent examples.  If guys like him want to accept the call and commit to Canada when they are young and are a great prospect, perfect.  But that is because I think that if their potential is realized, they will have a long career with Canada.  That is different that trying to lock a guy like Telfer down who may not end up having many games - just for the sake of denying him the ability to ever suit up for a country like T&T.  

 

[Shway]

27 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

A couple of things wrong with this IMO..... 

(read up for his full reply) 

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I might have made myself unclear or came across cynical, my main point is calling up guys based on form and not just potential - I don't think we've turned this corner. 

Yes quality and quantity is improving, interest in the game nationally is improving, but I think our measurement of deserving call-ups needs great improvement. 

Are you playing ✅ Acceptable Tier ✅ Scoring Goals, Assists, Clean Sheets ✅  

This process in whatever form doesn't seem to exist. Guys like Godinho would never get the call. 

To add, I look at France. They are World Cup champs and have been rotating, bringing in new young guys/late bloomers, dropping elite young talent - when they don't have too. Ultimately places shouldn't be as guaranteed as it has been. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Shway
Added To add...

[Obinna]

37 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

I would actually say that it is a bias based on an inferiority complex.  The minute any other country shows any interest in any Canadian players, people start viewing them as potentially more talented than they might perhaps be.

Remember when DeRosario was trying to recruit O'Brien White away from Jamaica?  Or when Roberto Stillo and Adam Street were considering Italy/England?  Or when Oscar Cordon mentioned that he might consider Guatemala?  Or when Keven Aleman was going to play for Costa Rica?  Or when Marco Bustos flirted with Chile?  Or when Jakob Lensky and Kris Twardek chose the Czech Republic?

I can't speak for others, but this doesn't apply to Telfer as far as I am concerned. Since he made his debut with Toronto, I thought this player should be capped.

My evaluation of him was not based on his eligiblity for T&T.

[Obinna]

34 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

A couple of things wrong with this IMO.

1 - If we cynically cap a player just to deny another country the chance (thereby denying the player any shot at a meaningful international career) word will get around and we WILL lose dual nationals in the future - or at least have them delay accepting the call. 

2 - I don't think an inability to crack the starting lineup at Bayern or the first team at Barca and Liverpool means that we are coasting or that we aren't developing new players.  I think we have permanently turned a corner in both the quantity and quality of professional footballers that will come out of this country.  Not just due to CPL or the MLS academies - the amount of developmental opportunities for budding soccer players has exploded over the last decade or two.  I see it as a parent and as someone involved in the local soccer community.   We have permanently moved out of the dark ages and will never go back.  It is no coincidence that Davies, David, Millar, and Tabla (the players we have collectively gotten excited about) are all young guys with huge ceilings.  This is reflective of the current development system.  Maybe I am a hopeless optimist, but I fully believe that we will not be able to cap the amount of talented players we will be churning out from this point on. 

I have absolutely advocated for capping young guys who show huge promise.  Tabla is one of the more recent examples.  If guys like him want to accept the call and commit to Canada when they are young and are a great prospect, perfect.  But that is because I think that if their potential is realized, they will have a long career with Canada.  That is different that trying to lock a guy like Telfer down who may not end up having many games - just for the sake of denying him the ability to ever suit up for a country like T&T.  

 

The bolded part is a reflection of how you rate the player, which is not very high by the sounds of it.

We can use Telfer. Not every player will be a regular for Canada, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use them if they are available and willing to accept a call.

Telfer has to use his own discernment when deciding his national team future.

If he accepts a call and regrets it because his international career is short, that's on him, not on John Herdman or the CSA.

That is like Teal Bunbury "getting he word around" not to go with the USA because they are going to call you once or twice and never use you again....

This is not a real concern imo.

[dyslexic nam]

51 minutes ago, Obinna said:

The bolded part is a reflection of how you rate the player, which is not very high by the sounds of it.

We can use Telfer. Not every player will be a regular for Canada, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use them if they are available and willing to accept a call.

Telfer has to use his own discernment when deciding his national team future.

If he accepts a call and regrets it because his international career is short, that's on him, not on John Herdman or the CSA.

That is like Teal Bunbury "getting he word around" not to go with the USA because they are going to call you once or twice and never use you again....

This is not a real concern imo.

I tend to disagree that he is of a calibre that warrants a call up.  To me, if guys like Tesho aren’t making it, there is no way Telfer warrants a call on present form.  

But the real reason I wouldn’t do it is that some seem to be advocating it largely in the basis of the fact that he is also eligible for T&T, and that they may be skidding around.  This is that part that makes me cynical.   If T&T isn’t in the picture, I don’t see the impetus for capping him.   He didn’t make it at TFC and isn’t lighting up CPL. Meanwhile we have solid MLS players on the fringe and what I view as our elite players - or guys with massive potential - who fill the same positions. 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I tend to disagree that he is of a calibre that warrants a call up.  To me, if guys like Tesho aren’t making it, there is no way Telfer warrants a call on present form.  

But the real reason I wouldn’t do it is that some seem to be advocating it largely in the basis of the fact that he is also eligible for T&T, and that they may be skidding around.  This is that part that makes me cynical.   If T&T isn’t in the picture, I don’t see the impetus for capping him.   He didn’t make it at TFC and isn’t lighting up CPL. Meanwhile we have solid MLS players on the fringe and what I view as our elite players - or guys with massive potential - who fill the same positions. 

For me it is about the players attributes (which I have already outlined), not his statistics or current league. Nor is it about calling him ahead of Akindele, who quite rightly has forced himself into the conversation for the next camp.

Perhaps I am in the minority (or maybe not), but I was surprised that TFC sent Telfer on loan when Vanney was crying for wingers and had an effective one right under his nose. And then Telfer was called up for a single game and got an assist off the bench, which was not a surprise (to me). 

Regarding your comment about no impetus for capping him - I see things differently, becauseas far as I am concerned, he should have been capped already. 

Can't change the past I guess, but it's regrettable that we didn't play a single friendly between the NZ game in March and nations league qualifying. This would have been the ideal time to bring him in, as this was when he had some real dominant moments out wide for Toronto. 

Aside from Davies, nobody else has that blend of speed, power, directness and left foot. Such a player could be useful, if not immediately, then eventually. That's where I am coming from.

But if you want to compare him to others in the CPL or MLS and suggest now is not his time, then fair enough. That's a perfectly reasonable argument also.

As they say though, if you don't use it, you lose it. We need more camps to use more players to grow our pool, or else we are going to lose more Telfers.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Obinna

[Shway]

The guy is 25, and keeps getting better and he's one of the best Canadian eligible players in the CPL- we are in no position to be passing on talent to our competitors.... Because we're "good". 

I don't care what some are confusingly calling it. We are Canada, we've achieved very little, and we need to continue to build the player pool with quality players who are in collectively in form. Or we'll continue to rely on hope and promise. He's shown he can perform at MLS levels at each opportunity he's gotten, let him get an opportunity on the national stage. 

I think it's cynical to keep calling up guys who are doing the bare minimum.

 

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, Shway said:

The guy is 25, and keeps getting better and he's one of the best Canadian eligible players in the CPL- we are in no position to be passing on talent to our competitors.... Because we're "good". 

I don't care what some are confusingly calling it. We are Canada, we've achieved very little, and we need to continue to build the player pool with quality players who are in collectively in form. Or we'll continue to rely on hope and promise. He's shown he can perform at MLS levels at each opportunity he's gotten, let him get an opportunity on the national stage. 

I think it's cynical to keep calling up guys who are doing the bare minimum.

 

Definitely agree with this. When did we get so good that we can just brush off the fact a player like Telfer may play elsewhere? I guess beating T&T in a closed door friendly was a game changer....

Again, nobody is saying Telfer is going to take us on his back to the world cup, but the nonchalant attitude of some in response to possibly losing him is coming off as a little overconfident.

[Bison44]

I agree with Obinna, when Telfer broke in to TFC in spring 2018, i thought he should get an invite.  But he didnt, we had no camps, played no games etc, we all know the story.  That fall we did bring in wotherspoon, Millar, Fraser, Tabla and David, so it wasnt like we went with the old staus quo. 

When Telfer was breaking in with TFC, David hadnt yet shown to be the star in the making that he is, on par with the best we have had in years and Kaye was still blossoming at LAFC.  And I dont think Eustaquio had commited yet.  Also Tabla had committed and Millar wasnt making such a big name for himself at Liverpool yet.  These call ups dont happen in a vacum, if he doesnt get called in spring of 2018, and 5-6 other guys emerge and jump the line by the time we play in the fall/winter, what can he do??  Should we have left Tabla, Millar or Fraser or Wotherspoon etc at home to get Telfer in camp??  Maybe....but it wasnt a clear cut obvious choice.  Now that Arfield, Piette, Osorio, Hoilett, Davies, MA Kaye, Euspautico will make up the midfield, that leaves a lot of guys fighting for a rare call up.  Good players, Johnson, Akindele, Tiebert etc will struggle to get caps now.  

I agree with the rest about Telfer the player, I am a fan of his, love the style he plays, loves what he brings to the squad...but I still dont see who we sit to get him in.  And if we do make room to bring in a new guy, I think there are other just as good younger players that should get a call first.  If we lose him it'll be because he can see the same writing on the wall.  So I will whine if and when he scores against us for T+T, but I will root for him against Honduras and Costa Rica.