Octavio Zambrano

[Grizzly]

Seriously though, in some ways it is an underwhelming appointment in that he is not a big name with lots of success at high level leagues or internationally but at the same time I think he is a better choice than many I have seen named as possible candidates. He seems to have had success everywhere he is gone except at a few situations where there were club financial and stability issues. There are good coaches to be found who have for whatever reason and often just not being lucky enough have not had the chance to coach at a top level. If and it is a big if, the selection committee did their due diligence in assessing him he could turn out to be the type of coach we so desperately need. I remember when the Impact hired Jesse Marsh it was a pretty underwhelming hire on the face of it but many people who had worked with him were saying he was a really good coach and that turned out to be true. Zambrano has a much longer history in many places than Marsh did and if the CSA questioned a lot of his former players and employers and they said similar things about him then he might be a great hire. 

[Grizzly]

16 hours ago, Big_M said:

Looks like he has brought an experienced gk coach who was with him at the la salsa and galaxy. He was also with chivas usa and us national teams.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/octavio-zambrano-introduced-as-canadas-new-mens-soccer-coach/article34336446/

http://www.scblues.com/Default.aspx?tabid=157345

In addition to his work with Bradley with the US national team he was also Bradley's goalkeeper coach with the Egyptian national team. It is a good sign that someone who is a trusted assistant of Bradley also thinks enough of his other former boss Zambrano to follow him to a less sexy appointment.

[Gian-Luca]

I don't mind Zambrano saying "We will not rely on the MLS environment" (in the event of the emergence of a Canadian league) if what he really means is "We will not rely solely on the MLS". There's no chance that we will not be relying on MLS to a significant degree especially with the improved domestic roster status for Canadians, and especially as it's looking less likely (based on the Spectator article that just came out) that the Canadian league will be up and running before 2019, which will also be the same year that WCQ next begins. If a Canadian league is up and running by then, I have a tough time expecting that the national team's domestic-based players on the roster will be made up predominantly of players from that league in the first year of the league's existence.

[Grizzly]

15 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I don't mind Zambrano saying "We will not rely on the MLS environment" (in the event of the emergence of a Canadian league) if what he really means is "We will not rely solely on the MLS". There's no chance that we will not be relying on MLS to a significant degree especially with the improved domestic roster status for Canadians, and especially as it's looking less likely (based on the Spectator article that just came out) that the Canadian league will be up and running before 2019, which will also be the same year that WCQ next begins. If a Canadian league is up and running by then, I have a tough time expecting that the national team's domestic-based players on the roster will be made up predominantly of players from that league in the first year of the league's existence.

I suspect he is sending out a bit of a message to the MLS from both himself and the CSA with these comments and would not take them too literally. It is important to get the CSL started but yes it is unlikely it will have much of an effect on the next cycle of qualifying but a bit of pressure on MLS as far as getting more Canadians chances to get into the league and play can not hurt.

[The Ref]

Was Zambrano given a one or two years contract?

 

[Alex D]

1 hour ago, The Ref said:

Was Zambrano given a one or two years contract?

 

I believe Vic said in an interview he's on until the end of WC qualifying for 2022

[The Ref]

2 hours ago, Alex D said:

I believe Vic said in an interview he's on until the end of WC qualifying for 2022

Oops! according Zambrano's previous engagements he only lasted 1 to 2 years.

[Kent]

9 hours ago, Grizzly said:

I suspect he is sending out a bit of a message to the MLS from both himself and the CSA with these comments and would not take them too literally. It is important to get the CSL started but yes it is unlikely it will have much of an effect on the next cycle of qualifying but a bit of pressure on MLS as far as getting more Canadians chances to get into the league and play can not hurt.

I took his comments as being for Canadians rather than MLS. Rally the fans into this belief that MLS and the USSF won't bring us to greatness. We have to do that ourselves. Get out there and support the CPL when it comes.

[Gian-Luca]

10 hours ago, Grizzly said:

I suspect he is sending out a bit of a message to the MLS from both himself and the CSA with these comments and would not take them too literally. It is important to get the CSL started but yes it is unlikely it will have much of an effect on the next cycle of qualifying but a bit of pressure on MLS as far as getting more Canadians chances to get into the league and play can not hurt.

As long as it's just a message and he's not starting to call players from the CPL ahead of MLS ones for largely political reasons (as opposed to merit/playing time reasons).  Anyway, I guess we have a long way to go before that prospect even becomes a possibility

[Grizzly]

3 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

As long as it's just a message and he's not starting to call players from the CPL ahead of MLS ones for largely political reasons (as opposed to merit/playing time reasons).  Anyway, I guess we have a long way to go before that prospect even becomes a possibility

Yeah I agree with you that in the beginning the selections should be only from MLS not CPL unless they shell out a lot more than I think they will for certain players but at the same time wouldn't it be awesome for there to be a selection controversy between a MLS and CPL player? That would at least mean the CPL was established and somewhat competitive.

[matty]

14 hours ago, Alex D said:

I believe Vic said in an interview he's on until the end of WC qualifying for 2022

Goddamn csa. Why do you always commit for so freaking long?

[nolbertos]

22 minutes ago, matty said:

Goddamn csa. Why do you always commit for so freaking long?

I doubt any serious candidate would even bother applying to Canada without a guarantee for a minimum of 2 years.  Canada isn't a high demand country for top class coaches to want to add to their resume.

[matty]

11 hours ago, nolbertos said:

I doubt any serious candidate would even bother applying to Canada without a guarantee for a minimum of 2 years.  Canada isn't a high demand country for top class coaches to want to add to their resume.

The last part: That's not what vic told larson ?. 

But i could see the csa caving to the demand of a coach in contract talks. I just hope if this guy is a bust they can sack him.

[jpg75]

After signing previous coaches to long-term deals, Floro was signed to a 1 year contract with a series of 1 year options to renew and was not renewed after our WC elimination. 

Now, does OZ warrant going back to handing out a 3+ year contract? Could there be a misunderstanding ie. Vic does not foresee problems and therefore preumes they will keep him on until the end? I would like to think the CSA stuck to their newly found guns.

[The Ref]

7 hours ago, jpg75 said:

After signing previous coaches to long-term deals, Floro was signed to a 1 year contract with a series of 1 year options to renew and was not renewed after our WC elimination. 

Now, does OZ warrant going back to handing out a 3+ year contract? Could there be a misunderstanding ie. Vic does not foresee problems and therefore preumes they will keep him on until the end? I would like to think the CSA stuck to their newly found guns.

When a coach fails and does not meet expectations, the alternative of not renewing his contract is certainly better than carrying on with vane hopes.  However the CSA needs to be even more proactive as do other Federations and not wait for a renewal date, but simply fire the guy ipso facto.  I never heard of OZ before and I wonder in anyone here had him in their list of possibles.

[Bison44]

16 hours ago, matty said:

Goddamn csa. Why do you always commit for so freaking long?

CSA has given him control of the youth right on up to the CMNT, to try and get things in order etc.  How can he do any of that on a 1 year contract, He needs years to try and change the system, style etc.  No sense putting your faith in a guy then changing course in a year before he can get anything done. Maybe its another 1 year plus 1 year options etc like Floros deal.   But look at Floro, he comes in after a failed WCQ, then he has the next 2 years/WCQ cycle to get the job done.  I Imagine OZ will have a similar timeline, 2017-2020, and if the team doesnt please everyone  (HEX AND BEYOND) he'll be gone.  I dont see anything wrong with that.  

[rob.notenboom]

1 hour ago, The Ref said:

... with vane hopes ...

Does this mean you're not a fan? 

[Shway]

On 17/03/2017 at 1:01 PM, Rheo said:

No offense meant but they're seem to be a whole lot of keyboard warriors that think they know how to solve all the issues facing Canada soccer. Constant change isn't going to overcome the issues our program faces. 

Back to St Pattys day. Cheers

Key board warrioring is down to a mix of excitement that usually subsides with disappointment. Excitement for the fact that we have a coach in for an important tournament for our nation. Disappointment for the caliber of the coach considering the serious magnitude of a job to revolutionize the entire Canada Soccer program.

So what do you have in between that...the opportunity to succeed or be in the mould of the exact past failed managers.

The reality is, constant change hasn't been an issue for Canada in the past few cycles.

Maybe the CSA, and Octavio have been having discussions for a while, but overall the credentials don't match the size of the job. This isn't just the natonal team, but the entire men's program.

 

With Vic moving on in a few weeks, I hope this wasn't a rushed decision to get someone in place before he leaves.

[matty]

1 hour ago, The Ref said:

I never heard of OZ before and I wonder in anyone here had him in their list of possibles.

Cause I was clearly listing: No. I was keeping mine focus on more current MLS coaches coaches (who've worked in the league since 2012) and Central American coaches with national team experience. 

2 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

CSA has given him control of the youth right on up to the CMNT, to try and get things in order etc.  How can he do any of that on a 1 year contract, He needs years to try and change the system, style etc....

I actually think handing that over to him is some what silly. I know some FAs do that but I'm not a fan of it.

4 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

...No sense putting your faith in a guy then changing course in a year before he can get anything done....But look at Floro, he comes in after a failed WCQ, then he has the next 2 years/WCQ cycle to get the job done.  I Imagine OZ will have a similar timeline, 2017-2020, and if the team doesnt please everyone  (HEX AND BEYOND) he'll be gone.  I dont see anything wrong with that.  

I've noted the difference before. Floro had to blow up the team and deal with a generational shift while Zambrano doesn't have to deal with either. Floro needed a year to look at what he had while Zambrano should already have an idea of the top players (hence why he's gonna be in place for the Gold Cup) and will need maybe 6 months to get used to the job and the team.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to not fuck everything up in a year but if he sees Canada fail against nations it should be able to beat causing a ranking plunge then he should be sacked like most other FAs would do. He'll likely be alright I think but if he fucking blows then he should be gone.

[Shway]

6 minutes ago, matty said:

I've noted the difference before. Floro had to blow up the team and deal with a generational shift while Zambrano doesn't have to deal with either. Floro needed a year to look at what he had while Zambrano should already have an idea of the top players (hence why he's gonna be in place for the Gold Cup) and will need maybe 6 months to get used to the job and the team.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to not fuck everything up in a year but if he sees Canada fail against nations it should be able to beat causing a ranking plunge then he should be sacked like most other FAs would do. He'll likely be alright I think but if he fucking blows then he should be gone.

So Matty, based on this....

If OZ gets the same results in the GC that the past 2 coaches got.

Does he warrant staying past that? Or do you give him time till the next one in 2019?

[matty]

9 minutes ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

So Matty, based on this....

If OZ gets the same results in the GC that the past 2 coaches got.

Does he warrant staying past that? Or do you give him time till the next one in 2019?

I wouldn't include the gold Cup as part of him failing because it's a failure there could be justified for him given that he'll only have been in the job 3 months (as I said above he needs 6~) and had a single camp with the team. Unless Canada play like Minnesota the Gold Cup should not get him sacked.

Regarding 2019, I would say let the next year of performances decide. If we're playing Jamaica-level teams 10 times and go 1-3-6 I'd say look for someone new because something isn't right.

Edited March 20, 2017 by matty

[jpg75]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

CSA has given him control of the youth right on up to the CMNT, to try and get things in order etc.  How can he do any of that on a 1 year contract, He needs years to try and change the system, style etc.  No sense putting your faith in a guy then changing course in a year before he can get anything done. Maybe its another 1 year plus 1 year options etc like Floros deal.   But look at Floro, he comes in after a failed WCQ, then he has the next 2 years/WCQ cycle to get the job done.  I Imagine OZ will have a similar timeline, 2017-2020, and if the team doesnt please everyone  (HEX AND BEYOND) he'll be gone.  I dont see anything wrong with that.  

The problem with this is that it's not supposed to be the MNT head coach's job to revamp the youth teams, that's a TD's job. If you have someone like Zambrano who has a strong technical background it never hurts to get his input on youth programs, but you're handcuffing yourself as an association if you start handing out long-term (5+ years) responsibilities to a an employee whose job is supposed to be short to medium term (1-5).

[nolando]

9 hours ago, jpg75 said:

The problem with this is that it's not supposed to be the MNT head coach's job to revamp the youth teams, that's a TD's job. If you have someone like Zambrano who has a strong technical background it never hurts to get his input on youth programs, but you're handcuffing yourself as an association if you start handing out long-term (5+ years) responsibilities to a an employee whose job is supposed to be short to medium term (1-5).

I'm inclined to agree with you, jp. One if the articles I posted had an insider commenting something to the effect of OZ would be great as a second fiddle ( TD as well, I suggest) to a strong man-managing head coach. It seems like the CSA is okay with him trying out the whole shebang as his four-year audition rather than hiring (and paying the salary difference for) someone who has already done this on a national level. 

Welcome to the land of OZ. (This ain't Kansas).

Edited March 20, 2017 by nolando

[matty]

4 hours ago, nolando said:

I'm inclined to agree with you, jp. One if the articles I posted had an insider commenting something to the affect of OZ would be great as a second fiddle ( TD as well, I suggest) to a strong man-managing head coach. It seems like the CSA is okay with him trying out the whole shebang as his four-year audition rather than hiring (and paying the salary difference) someone who has already done this on a national level. 

Welcome to the land of OZ. (This ain't Kansas).

OZ is a magical and sometimes scary place for sure.

Can anyone name a serious FA that just hands over it's program for a 4 year period to a guy like Octavio?

[Shway]

12 hours ago, jpg75 said:

The problem with this is that it's not supposed to be the MNT head coach's job to revamp the youth teams, that's a TD's job. If you have someone like Zambrano who has a strong technical background it never hurts to get his input on youth programs, but you're handcuffing yourself as an association if you start handing out long-term (5+ years) responsibilities to a an employee whose job is supposed to be short to medium term (1-5).

This has been my major concern. 

A TDs job is completely different from a HC job. When you get the reigns to both, it becomes dicey if you fail at the HC job. As in the affects of the implemented plans from the TD go unnoticed.

I look south of the border and look at what JK did as a TD vs HC....and think maybe he should've just been their TD, while working with the president to find the right coaches that fit the given mould of the TD's plan.