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Octavio Zambrano

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11 minutes ago, Brazilero said:

You don’t know exactly what happened. I do. Saw it and heard it first hand. Lots of people will say that Canadian Soccer isn’t racist, but they would be very wrong. Canada is as racist as America is, we just hide it better.

Get off this board.  We do not want people like you.

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23 minutes ago, Brazilero said:

I don’t think Herdsman is a racist. The good old boys club in the CSA and OSA, those people are racist. 

But you accused him of having racist overtones because he called the Haitian team who are "predominantly black" as being "athletic".

Charlie Davies, who is also black, just called the Curacao team (who are also predominantly black) "athletic" at the 15:40 mark of this video. Does that make him racist towards blacks, or is there a double-standard here depending upon who is paying the athletes a compliment?

I can't comment on your accusations about the members of the CSA & OSA since the claim is non-specific, but if this is the criteria you are going to use for making claims of racism, you are shooting yourself in the foot for being taken seriously on such claims.

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2 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Probably because the notion that Herdman is racist towards blacks is hard to take seriously when the Canadian team under Herdman is also “predominantly black” or hadn’t you noticed?  I am critical of Herdman’s mistakes in this tourney and the “mental toughness” corner he has now put himself in, but this racism complaint is unfounded, unless you have evidence or proof of actual racist terms being used (hint- calling a team of athletic players “athletic” doesn’t count as being racist)

 

15 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

But you accused him of having racist overtones because he called the Haitian team who are "predominantly black" as being "athletic".

Charlie Davies, who is also black, just called the Curacao team (who are also predominantly black) "athletic" at the 15:40 mark of this video. Does that make him racist towards blacks, or is there a double-standard here depending upon who is paying the athletes a compliment?

I can't comment on your accusations about the members of the CSA & OSA since the claim is non-specific, but if this is the criteria you are going to use for making claims of racism, you are shooting yourself in the foot for being taken seriously on such claims.

Typical responses from those who do not take racism and it’s affects seriously. Not surprised.

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1 hour ago, Brazilero said:

Typical 

No it's not typical. 

You're the racist, and you are getting told to **** off as you should.  Painting all people with the same broad sweeping brush so casually. The kind of thing ignorant racists do, it comes to you as second nature.   You are the one that hides behind ****. Not us.

You don't get to call us all that, pretend to 'know it all'.  

Meet guys like you all the time. What the **** do you do?  Let me guess you can't tell us.  

******* coward.

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The whole “they wore us down physically” comments by Herdman are so ridiculous.  We were playing a lower standard of athlete .. they were not physically imposing at a level above us. Just a stupid cop out.  We fell apart, plain and simple.  There was no alleged physical wearing down.  The goals came from 2 errors and a defensive breakdown.  

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11 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

🤔 what do you mean? All of our players are better athletes than all of the Haitian players? In what sense?

Of course I meant on average and not all but there’s no question we have better athletes in our ranks.  For example, Davies was likely the best athlete in the tournament.  That Saba guy who was playing wing for them didn’t even look like a professional footballer. Edit:  Just checked and he isn’t - he plays in the Haitian league.

Respect to Nazon and Pierrot.. they are big guys, quick too.  But we lost because of 3 of our own breakdowns. 

And if Herdman was really concerned about this physicality and athleticism we had the players to go to war.  Cavallini and Henry are more imposing than anything they could throw out... and how do you complain about this “wearing down” and then take off your most imposing player?  Craziness.

Edited by CanadaFan123

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1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Of course I meant on average and not all but there’s no question we have better athletes in our ranks.  For example, Davies was likely the best athlete in the tournament.  That Saba guy who was playing wing for them didn’t even look like a professional footballer. Edit:  Just checked and he isn’t - he plays in the Haitian league.

Respect to Nazon and Pierrot.. they are big guys, quick too.  But we lost because of 3 of our own breakdowns. 

And if Herdman was really concerned about this physicality and athleticism we had the players to go to war.  Cavallini and Henry are more imposing than anything they could throw out... and how do you complain about this “wearing down” and then take off your most imposing player?  Craziness.

So you're basing this on what they look like on a television broadcast?

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1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said:

So you're basing this on what they look like on a television broadcast?

Not sure where you get that.  I’ve watched all of our players and many of the Haitian players live and on broadcasts throughout the years, qualifying and this tournament.  It’s an educated opinion - if you have something to contribute please do.  Davies, Cavallini, David, Henry etc. - I just can’t see how any reasonable person can say they outmatched us athletically and wore us down in that match.  We wore ourselves down mentally and lost our belief.  But of course no manager is going to say that because that points right at them.  We needed an injection of energy at some point. 

Edited by CanadaFan123

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10 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Not sure where you get that.  I’ve watched all of our players and many of the Haitian players live and on broadcasts throughout the years, qualifying and this tournament.  It’s an educated opinion - if you have something to contribute please do.  Davies, Cavallini, David, Henry etc. - I just can’t see how any reasonable person can say they outmatched us athletically and wore us down in that match.  We wore ourselves down.

Without actually assessing any of the players pre-game or post-game I can't see how you can make this assessment. Taking one comment from JH and jumping on him as if he's lying or trying to make excuses based on this is a stretch.

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1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Without actually assessing any of the players pre-game or post-game I can't see how you can make this assessment. Taking one comment from JH and jumping on him as if he's lying or trying to make excuses based on this is a stretch.

You’re contradicting yourself.  So how could JH make that assessment?  Did the Haitians allow him to assess their players pre and post match in exchange for a TED talk? 😉

Its just an opinion, same as Herdman I suppose.  I didn’t see our guys physically break down and I don’t think the match stats back it up either.

 

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40 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

You’re contradicting yourself.  So how could JH make that assessment?  Did the Haitians allow him to assess their players pre and post match in exchange for a TED talk? 😉

Its just an opinion, same as Herdman I suppose.  I didn’t see our guys physically break down and I don’t think the match stats back it up either.

 

I'm not contradicting myself.

JH was at the game, trained with our team for weeks, was with them and spoke to them pre, in and post-game. He presumably watched hours of video of the Haitian team. He has years of experience assessing physical abilities and has studied aspects of that for years.

I have no idea who you are or what you do, maybe you are as qualified to make the same assessment from your couch but I doubt it.

You've now edited your comment and I think your second attempt is probably more accurate except I would argue that the tactics employed by Haiti also played a major role in wearing Canada down mentally and physically.

4 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

We wore ourselves down mentally and lost our belief.

 

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OZ has coached in Europe. Most of his jobs have been held for 2-3 years, but more importantly, he has been consistently employed for 20 years. 

He just won a title in Colombia last year, and qualified for the Libertadores.

I should add, his team, Independiente Medellin, was eliminated from the Libertadores this year on penalties, following which OZ was immediately sacked despite the fact he brought them their greatest success in years - that's just how football works in South America. 

Edited by BrennanFan

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1 hour ago, BrennanFan said:

OZ has coached in Europe. Most of his jobs have been held for 2-3 years, but more importantly, he has been consistently employed for 20 years. 

He just won a title in Colombia last year, and qualified for the Libertadores.

I should add, his team, Independiente Medellin, was eliminated from the Libertadores this year on penalties, following which OZ was immediately sacked despite the fact he brought them their greatest success in years - that's just how football works in South America. 

You’re right, he’s coached in Hungary and Moldova. 

In terms of his stints as manager, of Transfermarkt is to be believed it looks like he actually hasn’t coached more than 2 years in place all that much. Only once, with the Metrostars.

And great if his team in Medellin has done well. Does the aggregate title actually mean anything? Wiki only lists the split season champs and the team page doesn’t list any title for his time.

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5 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Without actually assessing any of the players pre-game or post-game I can't see how you can make this assessment. Taking one comment from JH and jumping on him as if he's lying or trying to make excuses based on this is a stretch.

Buzz are you just playing devils advocate??  What do you really think?  Very few of us are high level players or coaches but we've all watched about a million hours of soccer and listened to the accompanying commentary by experts.  Did it look to you like Haiti was physically dominating us, wearing us out, out muscling us in challenges, knocking our guys around etc??  Did it look like our guys were wore down or more like they were in the drivers seat until they had 2 very bad defensive lapses in quick succession and the whole team was mentally rattled and never regained their composure?  Taking all opinions about herdman and zambrano out of it, does Herdmans assesment jive at all with what you saw in that game??  

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1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

Did it look like our guys were wore down or more like they were in the drivers seat until they had 2 very bad defensive lapses in quick succession and the whole team was mentally rattled and never regained their composure?

This is what I think.

And I think that Haiti played a style and at a tempo that added to our mental breakdowns and in turn our ability come back. I also think the Hutch goal being called back was probably another mental let down that added to the collapse.

I don’t think Haiti has inferior athletes and that JH saying they wore us down is a cop out.

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3 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

This is what I think.

And I think that Haiti played a style and at a tempo that added to our mental breakdowns and in turn our ability come back. I also think the Hutch goal being called back was probably another mental let down that added to the collapse.

I don’t think Haiti has inferior athletes and that JH saying they wore us down is a cop out.

That’s not the question he asked.  Do you think that Haiti wore us down physically?  Is that what you saw Saturday?  Genuinely curious as to what you saw or if you’re playing devils advocate here.  I think most of us saw 3 defensive breakdowns.. I can’t think of any chances off them wearing us down or us being fatigued.

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I dont expect the coach to fall on his sword over the gold cup.  Or go out of their way to point out the things they did wrong.  But if we were being bullied and worn down, why pull an absolute beast like Cavallini??  Why not put a bulldog/destroyer like Piette on at halftime to start evening up the physicality? Why put Kaye on when it seemed like he was not at his peak physically??  If Godinho was the one being physically outmatched, why wasnt someone told to get back and help the youngster??  I respect that we can see things different, but the actions he took during the game dont jive with what he said after the game.  

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8 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I dont expect the coach to fall on his sword over the gold cup.  Or go out of their way to point out the things they did wrong.  But if we were being bullied and worn down, why pull an absolute beast like Cavallini??  Why not put a bulldog/destroyer like Piette on at halftime to start evening up the physicality? Why put Kaye on when it seemed like he was not at his peak physically??  If Godinho was the one being physically outmatched, why wasnt someone told to get back and help the youngster??  I respect that we can see things different, but the actions he took during the game dont jive with what he said after the game.  

QFT

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OZ's Twitter game is still on fire. Made me laugh this morning. He tweeted an ESPN article about various off-field challenges that countries had at the Gold Cup, and in the article was a mention of Canada having a "Mind Room" at their hotel.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/concacaf-gold-cup/0/blog/post/3886005/mexicos-60-strong-partycanadas-mind-rooms,-cubas-travel-travails-gold-cups-off-field-challenges

OZ's reply: "This is fascinating and makes me wonder whom is in the "Mind Room" now..."

😂

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57 minutes ago, jtpc said:

OZ's Twitter game is still on fire. Made me laugh this morning. He tweeted an ESPN article about various off-field challenges that countries had at the Gold Cup, and in the article was a mention of Canada having a "Mind Room" at their hotel.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/concacaf-gold-cup/0/blog/post/3886005/mexicos-60-strong-partycanadas-mind-rooms,-cubas-travel-travails-gold-cups-off-field-challenges

OZ's reply: "This is fascinating and makes me wonder whom is in the "Mind Room" now..."

😂

 "We've targeted different mental trainers with different themes."

Too bad Dr. Heimlich was already booked elsewhere.

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On 7/2/2019 at 9:41 PM, BuzzAndSting said:

If OZ is as good as some make him out to be why hasn't he ever coached in Europe,...

Last time I checked Moldova and Hungary are in Europe and he has coached clubs in both those countries, but it's more the pedigree of club he has been coaching recently in Ecuador and Colombia that strongly suggests he knows his stuff and was well qualified to take the CMNT job given a big part of that job should be knowing how to prepare a team to go to somewhere like Tegucigalpa and get a result when the bags of urine start to fly.

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