CPL Stadium Thread

[BradMack]

Without a TV contract and all the talk about taking the things that worked about MLS, I've got to think Beirne isn't worried about TV money because they have a league wide kit deal in place. Similar to MLS's deal with adidas. Adidas is paying 25 mil a season for MLS on a deal they signed in 2011. The previous deal they had was signed in 2005 and was worth 15 mil a season and that was when MLS had 12 teams and before Beckham so probably more comparable. With 6 teams+2 the next year maybe we could be looking for 6 Million a year? Plus the clubs still get to have their own sponsors on the front and maybe everyones making over a million a year just on kit sponsorships. Then attendance is only really on the hook for covering the travel costs (which should be lower than the NASL and MLS) and marketing/staff. This would allow you to make profit in a Stadium that is only 5-6 thousand people. I just hope all of the tiny stadiums are built correctly so they look and feel right. FCed's stadium looks pretty awful on TV. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by BradMack

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Without a national TV deal the shirt sponsor and kit deals are not likely to be anything like as lucrative as they are for a league with 20,000 plus crowds, and big name DPs that generate massive amounts of jersey sales internationally were part of what made a league wide deal with MLS something that was worth pursuing and CPL is unlikely to be able to match that. Think some people on here still need to get their head around the way that an economic model using markets of 200,000 plus (i.e. using cities that are too small for CFL expansion and have no significant baseball in the summer months, because there is a niche to be filled there by a sport like soccer to be the only pro level team available locally for live sports entertainment for a significant chunk of the year when there is no junior hockey) necessitates an approach that is relatively low budget and radically different from that of MLS.

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Kent]

9 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Without a national TV deal the shirt sponsor and kit deals are not likely to be anything like as lucrative as they are for a league with 20,000 plus crowds, and big name DPs that generate massive amounts of jersey sales internationally were part of what made a league wide deal with MLS something that was worth pursuing and CPL is unlikely to be able to match that. Think some people on here still need to get their head around the way that an economic model using markets of 200,000 plus (i.e. using cities that are too small for CFL expansion and have no significant baseball in the summer months, because there is a niche to be filled there by a sport like soccer to be the only pro level team available locally for live sports entertainment for a significant chunk of the year when there is no junior hockey) necessitates an approach that is relatively low budget and radically different from that of MLS.

 

I agree with you that it's unlikely we get something like a $6 million kit deal and $1 million shirt sponsorships, but to be fair to BradMack he pointed out the MLS deal in 2005 was for $15 million, and that was before DPs and at a time when the average attendance was 15k.

But yeah, 15k is still a lot more fans per game than we are expecting of CPL, plus MLS had past results they could point to which CPL doesn't have, and your first point about not having a TV deal would definitely hurt any sponsorship money if in fact CPL doesn't get a TV deal (which I think is a very real possibility).

[An Observer]

I think cable TV is dead.  It's like music. I have a good friend who worked at emi in a senior position and they never saw the end coming.  Moving to digital like music on Spotify is the answer. We have seen the last of the big to contracts and the sports mega stars are at the peak of their earning powers.  It's all downhill for them from here.  Not saying the Lebron James won't do well but it will be the endorsements that count (and i say that knowing the NBA salary cap is going through the roof). 

[Ansem]

As long as all CPL game highlights makes it on all TV sports shows/news. Getting ahead of the curve in terms of streaming services is a smart strategy.

Bordeline giving away the games to CBC would be smart while taking advantage of their streaming initially would help expose the league

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, An Observer said:

I think cable TV is dead.  It's like music. I have a good friend who worked at emi in a senior position and they never saw the end coming.  Moving to digital like music on Spotify is the answer. We have seen the last of the big to contracts and the sports mega stars are at the peak of their earning powers.  It's all downhill for them from here.  Not saying the Lebron James won't do well but it will be the endorsements that count (and i say that knowing the NBA salary cap is going through the roof). 

Well, I don't think it will be downhill totally. Digital streaming services will offer the big bucks for these sports leagues down the road I think. If I were the big sports leagues, I'd definitely be planning for that transition.

[mpg_29]

For sports, both TV and streaming are important. But more importantly is to be able to buy a streaming subscription independent of having to buy a cable package to stream the channels. 

And as of right now Sportsnet is the best the overall option because it would probably mean some type of deal(money for the league, even if low initially) and also there is the option to buy Sportsnet Now for those that don't have/want a cable subscription.

[Cheeta]

I think while gate revenue has to be a big part of the budget equation some consideration has been given to maximizing other revenues from match day attendants.  Nothing new in that practice and you can understand why, do the math.  If you can profit just $10 a head from the $20 per that each attendee spends at a match that's $45K per match (or more if all well in Winnipeg).  That's north of a half million over 12 home fixtures.  Not bad, eh?

Digital coverage has been mentioned and it's worth mentioning.  $500 last year for CelticTV and it's gone up again.   Of course I probably save $3K a year not having beer for breakfast so a bargain!

 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The SSS arguably saved MLS. When the Columbus Crew built one they were amazed at how much extra cash could be generated from game day revenues as a stadium operator rather than a tenant and that's why it soon became a trend. Definitely encouraging to hear that six out of ten possible markets are thinking about building something, if I understood what PB was suggesting correctly. Celtic TV and its Rangers counterpart show that the future will ultimately involve cutting out the middle man in terms of the sports broadcaster. The key question is whether as much revenue can be generated that way and obviously there is the possibility that ultimately more will be, although I suspect that's unlikely for similar reasons to what happened to the music industry where record sales are concerned as it will be too easy to transmit a pirate feed illegally.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

On 7/14/2017 at 11:29 AM, An Observer said:

I think cable TV is dead.  It's like music. I have a good friend who worked at emi in a senior position and they never saw the end coming.  Moving to digital like music on Spotify is the answer. We have seen the last of the big to contracts and the sports mega stars are at the peak of their earning powers.  It's all downhill for them from here.  Not saying the Lebron James won't do well but it will be the endorsements that count (and i say that knowing the NBA salary cap is going through the roof). 

This is the truth.  This is the Napster moment for sports.  Illegal streaming has become so easy now that only mugs pay the obscene subscription prices to watch sports.  ESPN and Sky Sports are bleeding subscribers.  NBA and the premier league are all stressing about drops in viewership when more people than ever are watching.  They're just doing it with Kodi boxes and computers.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

In the recent podcast interview:

http://vocalminority.ca/episode-195-170717-theonewiththecplprez-sickbeirnebro/

at around 0:52:00 Paul Beirne actually specifically says that there are 10 markets involved that are later described as highly likely that are going to get there eventually (1:07:35) and 4 have a stadium while 6 are expected to build something. If the four includes the Ottawa Fury and FC Edmonton being projected to join when/if they see the league is working that gives:

4 with stadia: Ottawa, Hamilton, Winnipeg and Edmonton

6 building something: Halifax, K/W, Sask, Fraser Valley?, plus two more yet to surface publicly?

That would suggest that if Calgary and Quebec City are a factor and they would be the next two largest markets in population terms (excluding the three MLS markets obviously) that they would need to build something rather than use the Canadian football stadia that are available there, if the assumption I made on Ottawa and Edmonton is a valid one.

Edited July 16, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[grasshopper1917]

12 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

This is the truth.  This is the Napster moment for sports.  Illegal streaming has become so easy now that only mugs pay the obscene subscription prices to watch sports.  ESPN and Sky Sports are bleeding subscribers.  NBA and the premier league are all stressing about drops in viewership when more people than ever are watching.  They're just doing it with Kodi boxes and computers.

I think some services are moderately losing subscriptions to those who watch on Kodi. With that being said in my opinion Kodi is great for movies and shows but I would never rely on it for live sports unless it was a game/event im only passively interested in seeing. I find live sports stream quite often poor quality (compared to HD), choppy at times, cut out at times or sometimes become unavailable. I don't want to deal with that if im watching the big game or big event.

I think the 'death of cable' is greatly overstated. I do agree that cable needs to change BUT it is a highly efficient method of delivering broadcasts to screen. Cable companies are slowly coming around - for instance my cable provider charges a flat rate but allows me to pick the individual station I want. Also there is tons of on demand content. 

 

[Complete Homer]

What Mosaic looks like as a soccer stadium (photo from Belan's twitter) 

 

[Macksam]

2 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

What Mosaic looks like as a soccer stadium (photo from Belan's twitter) 

 

It doesn't look so bad.

[rob.notenboom]

It looked great in stadium. But the paint job on the CFL lines didn't take too well. But for a first attempt, I'll take it. 

There's really not a bad seat in that stadium. And just to kick the anthill a little bit, the standing terraces in the south end (Pil Country) and the gap in the south end above the concourse are designed to accept temporary seating to take stadium capacity up above 45,000. 

*ahem*

[mpg_29]

Some of the new CFL stadiums in the west are the best we have in the country imo...Mosiac, Investors group field.  If they could just figure out a solution to the line situation I don't see why they couldn't be used in CPL...

[Alex D]

12 hours ago, rob.notenboom said:

It looked great in stadium. But the paint job on the CFL lines didn't take too well. But for a first attempt, I'll take it. 

There's really not a bad seat in that stadium. And just to kick the anthill a little bit, the standing terraces in the south end (Pil Country) and the gap in the south end above the concourse are designed to accept temporary seating to take stadium capacity up above 45,000. 

*ahem*

So it's too small for CPL?

[rob.notenboom]

1 hour ago, Alex D said:

So it's too small for CPL?

Chuckle. Yes we need a new Azteca.

I honestly wasn't aware of the seat expansion possibility until this weekend. With 48,000 seats, it's not out of the question that Regina get a game or more in 2026. Clearly there would be many other hurdles to cross though.

[Complete Homer]

A note from @rob.notenboom's last podcast

Sask's stadium would be constructed by Nussli Group, the same group that created Empire Stadium, though they want more permanent features. Credit to @Ansem for calling out Empire stadium as a template like a year ago, before all the news about modular stadiums came out

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nussli_Group

Some prior projects:

https://www.nussli.com/en/projects/estadio-de-bata/#/

https://www.nussli.com/en/projects/wuerzburger-kickers/#/?products=grandstands_arena_stadium&sectors=Sports&show=36

https://www.nussli.com/en/projects/swiss-federal-wrestling-and-alpine-festival-burgdorf-2013/#/?products=grandstands_arena_stadium&sectors=Sports&show=36

 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Complete Homer

[Gordon]

At the meet and greet Belan indicate they were "close" on an 8500 seat modular stadium from Nussli. That may be an indicate of the scale the league is thinking, or simply Belen's thoughts on what the Saskatchewan market specifically might support.

In terms of teams 4-6, Bierne dropped a hint along the lines of 'if you think of cities that ought to be in the league, they're probably on the list'. Possibly a bad paraphrase, but the impression with me was that they would be larger centres. 

[ironcub14]

I do love how the term used in the conversation has gradually shifted over the past year from a discussion of pop-up stadiums onto modular stadiums. It's like the new CPL buzzword or something lol.

[Gordon]

21 hours ago, ironcub14 said:

I do love how the term used in the conversation has gradually shifted over the past year from a discussion of pop-up stadiums onto modular stadiums. It's like the new CPL buzzword or something lol.

The owners of the Halifax team used the term "pop-up" in their presentation. The principle for the Saskatchewan group, used the term "modular" in his. Personally I like modular better than pop-up - the latter sounds edgy and hip ?to me, two things I am not! - but I think both will likely stay in vogue. 

[rob.notenboom]

23 hours ago, ironcub14 said:

I do love how the term used in the conversation has gradually shifted over the past year from a discussion of pop-up stadiums onto modular stadiums. It's like the new CPL buzzword or something lol.

They are actually different things. Halifax is building a pop-up. Sask is building modular. 

[Rheo]

Is the difference pop-up is temporary and modular has the ability to expand easily when needed?  

[mpg_29]

I mean technically wasn't BMO field "modular"?..