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CPL Stadium Thread


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7 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Any evidence that's for anything more than rec level soccer? You might be adding two and two and getting five on this.

Didn't know the thread was anything more than a speculation thread. KW United needs a stadium. Potential fields of this size would be a potential location. That is all.

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Just now, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Nothing wrong with speculation and could see the logic behind what was being argued. Was just asking whether there was anything more solid beyond that. I suspect you would stay where you are at the moment hopefully with a panel type temporary surface used to make it look soccer only, if your ownership decides to pull the trigger.

MacLean has spoken about building a facility for CPL, so they've got to be thinking that the current facilities may not cut it in the future

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5 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Nothing wrong with speculation and could see the logic behind what was being argued. Was just asking whether there was anything more solid beyond that. I suspect you would stay where you are at the moment hopefully with a panel type temporary surface used to make it look soccer only, if your ownership decides to pull the trigger.

University won't cut it for more than a half season so might as well build a pop up and make a good impression. Centennial is a great option since the city already owns it(I think) and have been wanting to do something with it for years. It's a good location with tonnes of parking and is beside the most iconic sports venue in the region.  

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Panels can be placed over the football markings similar to what Rayo Oklahoma did, which looked not bad in youtube clips last year before one of the owners dismantled it late at night as he felt he was owed money or something. Not sure if it would be prohibitively expensive to install that for every game once Wilfred Laurier start playing in the fall and I guess intramural usage might complicate things. Agree Centennial is the prime location for a pop-up, but Halifax is looking like a bit of a cautionary tale at the moment for what can happen when you involve the local municipality too much, such as not allowing the stadium naming rights to go to SEA and demanding it gets partially dismantled at the end of every season, so local politicians can't always be trusted to be rational, unfortunately.

google maps shows its installation:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4911305,-97.729677,210m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard
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For what it's worth, MacLean said he didn't want a stadium with a track, so actually building something is probably in their mind. Not saying it is guaranteed to happen, but I think they want to go another route if possible 

54 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Panels can be placed over the football markings similar to what Rayo Oklahoma did, which looked not bad in youtube clips last year before one of the owners dismantled it late at night as he felt he was owed money or something. Not sure if it would be prohibitively expensive to install that for every game once Wilfred Laurier start playing in the fall and I guess intramural usage might complicate things. Agree Centennial is the prime location for a pop-up, but Halifax is looking like a bit of a cautionary tale at the moment for what can happen when you involve the local municipality too much, such as not allowing the stadium naming rights to go to SEA and demanding it gets partially dismantled at the end of every season, so local politicians can't always be trusted to be rational, unfortunately.

google maps shows its installation:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4911305,-97.729677,210m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

 

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4 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Panels can be placed over the football markings similar to what Rayo Oklahoma did, which looked not bad in youtube clips last year before one of the owners dismantled it late at night as he felt he was owed money or something. Not sure if it would be prohibitively expensive to install that for every game once Wilfred Laurier start playing in the fall and I guess intramural usage might complicate things. Agree Centennial is the prime location for a pop-up, but Halifax is looking like a bit of a cautionary tale at the moment for what can happen when you involve the local municipality too much, such as not allowing the stadium naming rights to go to SEA and demanding it gets partially dismantled at the end of every season, so local politicians can't always be trusted to be rational, unfortunately.

google maps shows its installation:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4911305,-97.729677,210m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

For me football lines was a problem but not the only one at University stadium. The track, the turf and only one side having a stand. It is nowhere near first division standards. I'd rather wait another year than have a team play there for a season.

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Think you are expecting a lot from Barry MacLean as there are not many people that would sink many millions into a permanent SSS before a league and a franchise has proven staying power. The key is often making the most initially of what's already available like FC Cincinnatti have done with Nippert Stadium by making it look like this:

rather than this:

Nippert_Stadium,_September_2015.JPG

and using it as the platform to prove that a city that nobody took seriously in pro soccer terms very much deserves to be in MLS.

University Stadium is listed as having a capacity of 6000, so it's in line with what they are hoping to do in Halifax in capacity terms and with what has been reported to be the break even point the CPL have in mind. It's also broadly similar to the setup at Swangard stadium that the 86ers/Whitecaps used to get the ball rolling in Vancouver in terms of having a single large seated area and a running track.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard
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47 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Think you are expecting a lot from Barry MacLean as there are not many people that would sink many millions into a permanent SSS before a league and a franchise has proven staying power. The key is often making the most initially of what's already available like FC Cincinnatti have done with Nippert Stadium by making it look like this:

rather than this:

Nippert_Stadium,_September_2015.JPG

and using it as the platform to prove that a city that nobody took seriously in pro soccer terms very much deserves to be in MLS.

University Stadium is listed as having a capacity of 6000, so it's in line with what they are hoping to do in Halifax in capacity terms and with what has been reported to be the break even point the CPL have in mind. It's also broadly similar to the setup at Swangard stadium that the 86ers/Whitecaps used to get the ball rolling in Vancouver in terms of having a single large seated area and a running track.

I'm not making up expectations, I'm using his words.

From the Record article:

"We've had some discussions on stadium plans, but they are kind of rudimentary. We need to have all the different user groups going in the same direction. That won't be easy, but for something like this it will change the landscape of soccer in the community."

From GRU:

"Barry was asked about the possibility of playing in Alumni stadium in Guelph; while he didn’t rule it out, he explained that “we want to get a stadium that actually looks like a soccer stadium. Ideally from my perspective we want a stadium that has no track, that the stands are close to the pitch so the fans can have a proper experience” (this caused a cheer to go up from the listeners)."

Again, before you jump down people's throat and minimize the implications, all I'm saying is that they seem to be thinking about building. As far as I'm aware, there's no stadium in the region that hits 5000 seats while meeting his description. 

I also think you're wrong to assume it's just Barry. I suspect he's more or less the frontman for a wider group of investors at this point. We know he was still pursuing partners as of a few months ago before committing,  now word is they are a lock

There has also been some chatter that the region is still interested in constructing the stadium (or a smaller version) that was planned for the Canada games. That stadium was going to be a siccer-oriented venue, and a public-private partnership for a small stadium wouldn't surprise me in KW, the region is much more in the "infrastructure spending is good" phase than many southern Ontario communities. 

Just as an aside, you've consistently held up "controlling your own stadiums" as a key to CPL success (or, in your case, it's absence to be a guarantee that the league will fail). With both SEA and Belan looking to build, indicating that its not impossible for smaller groups to pursue those types of options, why would you now say that the key is to use existing infrastructure that you'd presumably have to pay large amounts of rent for/not control concessions/lose revenue from other events/etc?  

Edited by Complete Homer
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2 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

...Again, before you jump down people's throat and minimize the implications,...

Why do you get personal like this rather than simply discussing an issue? I was responding to the idea that it is better to wait until an SSS is in place than to use University Stadium at the launch of the league. I don't doubt for a minute that they want an SSS eventually in a similar sort of way to FC Cincinnatti, who have no intention of staying at Nippert Stadium for the long haul if they actually do get into MLS. It's a lot easier to get people on board with the concept of an SSS if crowds of 5000+ are already showing up for games at an existing stadium as it minimizes the fear of building a white elephant in infrastructure terms.

 

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13 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Why do you get personal like this rather than simply discussing an issue? .

 

Probably because of the tone and attitude you've had for the past couple of years.

Apologies if I interpreted more snark in your reply than intended, but you've got to admit that you haven't exactly earned the benefit of the doubt in that regard. 

Edited by Complete Homer
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Again with the personal stuff. Drop it completely in future if you want to engage me in direct conversation. In response to your aside above, the pop-up in Halifax is being used to demonstrate the demand is there to justify a permanent SSS. They are not buildng the permanent SSS straight away.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard
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2 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Again with the personal stuff. Drop it completely in future if you want to engage me in direct conversation. In response to your aside above, the pop-up in Halifax is being used to demonstrate the demand is there to justify a permanent SSS. They are not buildng the permanent SSS straight away.

I was explaining myself. If you want an honest answer as to why I interpreted your post the way I did, and why you tend to get similar replies from others, that's why. Not my intention to be hurtful, but you asked.

If you want to discuss that further, feel free to PM me, but otherwise I'm sure people want the thread to revert to its topic

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5 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Why do you get personal like this rather than simply discussing an issue? I was responding to the idea that it is better to wait until an SSS is in place than to use University Stadium at the launch of the league. I don't doubt for a minute that they want an SSS eventually in a similar sort of way to FC Cincinnatti, who have no intention of staying at Nippert Stadium for the long haul if they actually do get into MLS. It's a lot easier to get people on board with the concept of an SSS if crowds of 5000+ are already showing up for games at an existing stadium as it minimizes the fear of building a white elephant in infrastructure terms.

 

There's a huge difference between Nippert and University. A bowl with no track is pretty much all you can ask for in a temporary stadium. Playing in a shitty venue has potential to hurt the clubs reputation for a long time. Also if we did a temporary pop up the stands could always be used for other things if it doesn't work out. If pro soccer is going to work n KW they need to show they're in for the long haul. The region also has shown it wants to invest. 

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6 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Why do you get personal like this rather than simply discussing an issue? I was responding to the idea that it is better to wait until an SSS is in place than to use University Stadium at the launch of the league. I don't doubt for a minute that they want an SSS eventually in a similar sort of way to FC Cincinnatti, who have no intention of staying at Nippert Stadium for the long haul if they actually do get into MLS. It's a lot easier to get people on board with the concept of an SSS if crowds of 5000+ are already showing up for games at an existing stadium as it minimizes the fear of building a white elephant in infrastructure terms.

 

 

1097612.jpg

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10 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Again with the personal stuff. Drop it completely in future if you want to engage me in direct conversation. In response to your aside above, the pop-up in Halifax is being used to demonstrate the demand is there to justify a permanent SSS. They are not buildng the permanent SSS straight away.

You heard of that expression where if you run into an asshole during the day, all that means is you ran into an asshole. However, if you keep running into assholes during the day, guess what, you're the asshole.

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Now that USL D3 has been raised, it is maybe worth pointing out that the market sizes they are looking at are broadly comparable with those that are on board with CPL or likely to be soon based on recent media reports and with Paul Beirne's repeatedly stated 200,000 or larger as the baseline for the population involved, so what they are doing or planning on doing on stadia is probably more relevant than Cincinnati, which has a metro size of over 2 million:

http://www.usld3.com/expansion

  • Strong local ownership
    • Primary owner with a net worth in excess of $10 million and 35% or greater share of the potential franchise
  • Soccer-specific stadia
    • Seating Capacity: 3,500
    • Pitch Size: 110 yards x 70 yards
  • Viable market size and support
    • Markets with a population between 150,000 to one million and a strong corporate and fan base for support
Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard
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6 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Now that USL D3 has been raised, it is maybe worth pointing out that the market sizes they are looking at are broadly comparable with those that are on board with CPL or likely to be soon based on recent media reports and with Paul Beirne's repeatedly stated 200,000 or larger as the baseline for the population involved, so what they are doing or planning on doing on stadia is probably more relevant than Cincinnati, which has a metro size of over 2 million:

http://www.usld3.com/expansion

  • Strong local ownership
    • Primary owner with a net worth in excess of $10 million and 35% or greater share of the potential franchise
  • Soccer-specific stadia
    • Seating Capacity: 3,500
    • Pitch Size: 110 yards x 70 yards
  • Viable market size and support
    • Markets with a population between 150,000 to one million and a strong corporate and fan base for support

And it also not relevant. 

While it's an interesting parallel to draw, American cities of that size have many much larger cities to compete with than cities of that size in Canada which don't really have that problem. The cultural and economic influence that a city like Halifax or Saskatoon exerts in Canada is much larger comparatively than somewhere like Statesboro. Which means we can aim higher than D3 and probably even D2.

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closed in corners and covered stands seem to be the key. Even if they are small they should consider a unique design aspect that stands out and can be identified with like the Franz-Kremer Stadion roof. trap the noise as best you can, never mind views and vistas focus on the pitch.

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