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Juan Guillermo Cordova


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32 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

He was also included in the Cuba and US camps in late 2019 and didn't make it on the field. 

Its based on the games that Huachipato have played in the last two months.  He's been on the bench more than he's started.

He's turning 26 in two months.  People around here were writing off 20 and 21 year olds.

Personally, he seems to have cachet because he plays in a foreign league and had one notable game.  Just like I've said with others, lets see him repeat the performance on a regular basis.  There are much more deserving players "worth a look" and they play in our backyard and have potentially more upside.

He has started 2 out of the 3 league games they have played this year, the one he missed he wasn’t even on the bench so I’m not sure of the reasoning behind. He also started their bigggest cup game of the year and was MOTM.

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31 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Personally, he seems to have cachet because he plays in a foreign league and had one notable game.  Just like I've said with others, lets see him repeat the performance on a regular basis.  There are much more deserving players "worth a look" and they play in our backyard and have potentially more upside.

You're not wrong about him having a particular cachet that's arguably undeserved. However, I am curious to know what other right backs are "worth a look" in your opinion? Johnston, Brault-Guillard and Laryea have all gotten minutes. Are you suggesting Godinho jumps him in the pecking order? Wouldn't be unreasonable given the tournament he just had. You also said "in our backyard", so are you thinking someone in the CPL perhaps? I don't see any MLS names that jump off the page who are clearly "worth a look" ahead of him...

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2 minutes ago, N1ckbr0wn said:

He has started 2 out of the 3 league games they have played this year, the one he missed he wasn’t even on the bench so I’m not sure of the reasoning behind. He also started their bigggest cup game of the year and was MOTM.

If he plays regularly in the next two months (present to June) then him not playing much in the last two months (Feb to present) counts for little...

It's all about framing. 

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2 hours ago, Obinna said:

You're not wrong about him having a particular cachet that's arguably undeserved. However, I am curious to know what other right backs are "worth a look" in your opinion? Johnston, Brault-Guillard and Laryea have all gotten minutes. Are you suggesting Godinho jumps him in the pecking order? Wouldn't be unreasonable given the tournament he just had. You also said "in our backyard", so are you thinking someone in the CPL perhaps? I don't see any MLS names that jump off the page who are clearly "worth a look" ahead of him...

People were pretty high on Mo Farsi not that long ago.  That would be the obvious one.  If the rumours are true and Buchanon goes to Europe to be a right back, that would be something to consider.  If both of them pick up where they left off and have a solid 2021, they would be as deserving of a call as Cordova.   If we are going to be handing out "have a look" spots on the team, those would be two I'd go with.

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24 minutes ago, hamiltonfan said:

Cordova never turned down a call-up. The guy is dying to be involved in the national team; it’s extremely important to him. He was called up to the friendly in Victoria but obviously those were canceled..

I never understand how people can be so confident when they’re clearly wrong. Cordova, in his own words, admits that he turned down the call for the New Zealand match and that’s why he fell of Herdman’s radar.

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My mistake RE turning down a call up. You are right...but I understand this was a decision by Juan (to focus on club football as he was recently transferred) that was understood and actually supported by John Herdman

All that said, that instance shouldn’t make supporters question his commitment to the national team. 

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2 hours ago, El Hombre said:

People were pretty high on Mo Farsi not that long ago.  That would be the obvious one.  If the rumours are true and Buchanon goes to Europe to be a right back, that would be something to consider.  If both of them pick up where they left off and have a solid 2021, they would be as deserving of a call as Cordova.   If we are going to be handing out "have a look" spots on the team, those would be two I'd go with.

Fair enough, forgot about Farsi. Buchanan arguably vaults to the top of the RB chart if he can replicate his 2020 play-off form with the likes of PSV or RB Salzburg, but were getting pretty hypothetical with that one.

The thing about Farsi is that he's younger, so there's probably more upside there. On the other hand though, we just had a look at Farsi with the Olympic qualifiers. I know it's not the full national team, but the coaching staff have already been able to evaluate him. As we can see, Godinho was preferred to him. That makes me think Cordova would be more of a priority than Farsi at this stage, but you never know. All of these guys mentioned are probably equally deserving of a shot...

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11 hours ago, El Hombre said:

People were pretty high on Mo Farsi not that long ago.  That would be the obvious one.  If the rumours are true and Buchanon goes to Europe to be a right back, that would be something to consider.  If both of them pick up where they left off and have a solid 2021, they would be as deserving of a call as Cordova.   If we are going to be handing out "have a look" spots on the team, those would be two I'd go with.

Putting Farsi ahead of Cordova is a reach in my opinion. The Chilean league is objectively a much higher league than CPL obviously. And it seems odd that you’re using Cordova not getting playing time with our full national team in the last couple camps he was in against him, while not acknowledging that the U23 staff had a good look at Farsi and thought he only deserved a couple late sub appearances. 
 

I do agree that if Buchanan continues to play RB at a high level he may deserve a call ahead of Cordova. We really don’t know what his future holds though, as far as whether he stays in MLS or moves to a better league, as well as what position he ultimately ends up at.

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2 minutes ago, archer21 said:

Putting Farsi ahead of Cordova is a reach in my opinion. The Chilean league is objectively a much higher league than CPL obviously. And it seems odd that you’re using Cordova not getting playing time with our full national team in the last couple camps he was in against him, while not acknowledging that the U23 staff had a good look at Farsi and thought he only deserved a couple late sub appearances. 
 

I do agree that if Buchanan continues to play RB at a high level he may deserve a call ahead of Cordova. We really don’t know what his future holds though, as far as whether he stays in MLS or moves to a better league, as well as what position he ultimately ends up at.

Yeah, I can see how people might see that as counter-intuitive.  Was just answering Obinna's question about who else might deserve a shot.  Godinho was the better option at the time and personally I like Godinho and think he's better than most around here, so he'd be another one that would move Cordova down the depth chart. 

The fact of the matter is that Cordova has had chances and has not impressed.  One game against a team that is playing at a clip of a game every 3 to 4 days and is most likely exhausted shouldn't really change that.  He has a history of inconsistent play, where he'll get a run of games and then be back on the bench.  Lets see some consistently top-level play over a couple months before we rush to bring him back.  Again, we're talking 4th or 5th (or potentially further) down the depth chart here.  And all of those ahead of him are younger (save Laryea who is the same age).

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Just now, El Hombre said:

Yeah, I can see how people might see that as counter-intuitive.  Was just answering Obinna's question about who else might deserve a shot.  Godinho was the better option at the time and personally I like Godinho and think he's better than most around here, so he'd be another one that would move Cordova down the depth chart. 

The fact of the matter is that Cordova has had chances and has not impressed.  One game against a team that is playing at a clip of a game every 3 to 4 days and is most likely exhausted shouldn't really change that.  He has a history of inconsistent play, where he'll get a run of games and then be back on the bench.  Lets see some consistently top-level play over a couple months before we rush to bring him back.  Again, we're talking 4th or 5th (or potentially further) down the depth chart here.  And all of those ahead of him are younger (save Laryea who is the same age).

He hasn't played for Canada since 2017 and even then he had 2 sub appearances. 4 years later and he's an established player on one of the better sides in Chile. 

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54 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

He hasn't played for Canada since 2017 and even then he had 2 sub appearances. 4 years later and he's an established player on one of the better sides in Chile. 

Also was included in two camps in 2019.

Its amazing how some players get so much rope on here while others make one mistake and are banished for eternity.

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1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

Also was included in two camps in 2019.

Its amazing how some players get so much rope on here while others make one mistake and are banished for eternity.

So you're assuming that he didn't impress in those camps and is therefore getting a lot of rope? He was called back so he couldn't have been that bad. Also you need to remember that Laryea broke through in those camps and was a revelation by all accounts. Those were must win matches so of course Herdman is going to go with his top guy.

Should Gutierrez also be dropped given that he didn't appear in the March matches?

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1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

Also was included in two camps in 2019.

Its amazing how some players get so much rope on here while others make one mistake and are banished for eternity.

I know what you're saying here, but fans can be fickle. If a player (Godinho) makes a very critical error in a big game that costs us, yeah that guy's going to go on the naughty list for a while, especially when he's young and unproven. I have personally come back around to Godinho, because he earned back my trust with his performances. Why would I give him a long rope from the get-go, just because he is young? No sir, it's all about give and take for me. The more you give the longer the rope. He has a little more rope with me now.

But up until Olympic Qualifiers Godinho gave a little and took a lot. 

And that brings us to Cordova, who I presume you are referring to as a player who gets a lot of rope. For me, he hasn't done anything wrong in a Canada top. He's only looked decent to good in his very limited appearances. I don't know if he has a long rope necessarily, but he is in what I would call an intriguing club situation, one that is naturally more appealing than Cavalry or another domestic club. All things being equal, players doing well at South American clubs will always generate more intrigue than domestic players, it is what it is. Maybe that changes with time, who knows..

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2 hours ago, El Hombre said:

The fact of the matter is that Cordova has had chances and has not impressed.  One game against a team that is playing at a clip of a game every 3 to 4 days and is most likely exhausted shouldn't really change that.  

This reminds me of James playing against Atalanta in UEFA Champions League. He went from in the mix to top CB option after that match. I pushed back on it, kind of how you are pushing back on the Cordova shouts.

Similar situation, but I think the difference is that James has had good and bad moments with the national team, but at least we know what we're getting. Cordova hasn't played for us very much, so there is a lot of intrigue about what he could be for us, so I think that's a factor.

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31 minutes ago, Obinna said:

This reminds me of James playing against Atalanta in UEFA Champions League. He went from in the mix to top CB option after that match. I pushed back on it, kind of how you are pushing back on the Cordova shouts.

Similar situation, but I think the difference is that James has had good and bad moments with the national team, but at least we know what we're getting. Cordova hasn't played for us very much, so there is a lot of intrigue about what he could be for us, so I think that's a factor.

I don’t think anyone is claiming that he’s the #1 option all of a sudden though. People have just said he should get a look for our GC squad assuming it’s a B/C squad and that he’s in the “worth a look category”. 

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1 minute ago, archer21 said:

I don’t think anyone is claiming that he’s the #1 option all of a sudden though. People have just said he should get a look for our GC squad assuming it’s a B/C squad and that he’s in the “worth a look category”. 

That's a very good point, actually!

Hey @El Hombre, since you are pushing back on people saying Cordova is "worth a look" after the San Lorenzo game, where was your pushback when people were anointing James as Canada's top CB after the Atalanta game?

I don't recall hearing you pushing back about that 😎

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1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

So you're assuming that he didn't impress in those camps and is therefore getting a lot of rope? He was called back so he couldn't have been that bad. Also you need to remember that Laryea broke through in those camps and was a revelation by all accounts. Those were must win matches so of course Herdman is going to go with his top guy.

Should Gutierrez also be dropped given that he didn't appear in the March matches?

You are miscontruing what I am saying.  Not once have I said Cordova should be dropped.  What I have maintained is that Cordova is a known quantity.  If the CSA or Herdman don't call him again, its because he didn't impress and I don't think it should be a surprise to anyone.  One game does not change that.  Eight or nine in a row?  Maybe.  But let's cross that bridge when we come to it.

Not sure why you brought up Gutierrez but if he was invited to a couple camps and then dropped that would mean that he didn't impress so he too would have to string together several above average performances before we need to bring him back.

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34 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That's a very good point, actually!

Hey @El Hombre, since you are pushing back on people saying Cordova is "worth a look" after the San Lorenzo game, where was your pushback when people were anointing James as Canada's top CB after the Atalanta game?

I don't recall hearing you pushing back about that 😎

Personally, I can't remember if I said something or not, but the one major difference is the depth at the position.  James playing Champions League would be a big deal considering he's battling for one of two spots with an injured Henry, Cornelius, Vitoria (who I don't rate), worst team in second division Holland Sturing and Ferreira who hasn't kicked a ball in two years.  That is a lot different than competing for one position with Brault-Guillard (reigning MLS Team of the Week RB), Laryea (easily in the top 5 RB in MLS), MLS-regular Johnston, a resurgent Godinho, a very impressive Buchanon, reigning CPL young player of the year Farsi....

The differrences between the two are massive.  Even if we have a first-choice team for WCQ and a completely different second-choice team for GC, I still don't see Cordova getting a call.  So, I won't view it as an oversight when he's not named to the squad.

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37 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Personally, I can't remember if I said something or not, but the one major difference is the depth at the position.  James playing Champions League would be a big deal considering he's battling for one of two spots with an injured Henry, Cornelius, Vitoria (who I don't rate), worst team in second division Holland Sturing and Ferreira who hasn't kicked a ball in two years.  That is a lot different than competing for one position with Brault-Guillard (reigning MLS Team of the Week RB), Laryea (easily in the top 5 RB in MLS), MLS-regular Johnston, a resurgent Godinho, a very impressive Buchanon, reigning CPL young player of the year Farsi....

The differrences between the two are massive.  Even if we have a first-choice team for WCQ and a completely different second-choice team for GC, I still don't see Cordova getting a call.  So, I won't view it as an oversight when he's not named to the squad.

Is the difference between the two actually massive?

Here's another perspective:

I know we don't all rate players quite the same, but in my mind Miller (who you forgot to mention) will be a regular this year in Montreal, and was a quasi-regular with Orlando and did quite well in the playoffs last year, so I put him in the Johnston/ZBG category. Then, Cornelius I think is arguably a similar caliber player, but perhaps we don't think so because he hasn't had a tight grip on the CB spot Vancouver. However, he's played regularly enough for them, and he's also earned 13 caps for Canada, so if he's not in the Johnston/ZBG/Miller category, he's close enough. Then we have Vitoria, who unlike you I do rate, because aside from playing well for Canada he is a starter (and somewhat of a goal scorer) for his club that lives in mid table territory in Portugal, and he just might be the best CB in the pool. So for me that's 3 decent to good CBs without even factoring in Henry (can be the best or the worst on the day) or the best Canadian CB in the CPL (Didic) or a player who was looking pretty good for an unattached player (Ferreira).

Aside from Laryea (who is a standout), I am not sure the depth at right back is massively different from the depth at CB. It feels that way because we have a standout RB, but don't have a standout CB. After putting Laryea aside and comparing the other right backs with the CB options, my conclusion is there is not such a big difference in depth.

With that in mind, I am not sure Cordova is any further away from our team than James.

Perhaps both players will miss out from a second-choice GC team, and neither will be considered an oversight. 

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1 minute ago, Obinna said:

Is the difference between the two actually massive?

Here's another perspective:

I know we don't all rate players quite the same, but in my mind Miller (who you forgot to mention) will be a regular this year in Montreal, and was a quasi-regular with Orlando and did quite well in the playoffs last year, so I put him in the Johnston/ZBG category. Then, Cornelius I think is arguably a similar caliber player, but perhaps we don't think so because he hasn't had a tight grip on the CB spot Vancouver. However, he's played regularly enough for them, and he's also earned 13 caps for Canada, so if he's not in the Johnston/ZBG/Miller category, he's close enough. Then we have Vitoria, who unlike you I do rate, because aside from playing well for Canada he is a starter (and somewhat of a goal scorer) for his club that lives in mid table territory in Portugal, and he just might be the best CB in the pool. So for me that's 3 decent to good CBs without even factoring in Henry (can be the best or the worst on the day) or the best Canadian CB in the CPL (Didic) or a player who was looking pretty good for an unattached player (Ferreira).

Aside from Laryea (who is a standout), I am not sure the depth at right back is massively different from the depth at CB. It feels that way because we have a standout RB, but don't have a standout CB. After putting Laryea aside and comparing the other right backs with the CB options, my conclusion is there is not such a big difference in depth.

With that in mind, I am not sure Cordova is any further away from our team than James.

Perhaps both players will miss out from a second-choice GC team, and neither will be considered an oversight. 

You're right, I did forget about Miller.  That's good to note.  Also forgot about Kennedy.

The difference is that we are talking about two positions at CB, so there are double the opportunities. 

At RB, we have one player who is lighting it up in Laryea.  He's been great and is in the prime of his career.  After that, we've got Johnston and Brault-Guillard who are very young but everyday starts in MLS.  That is three top quality candidates for one spot.

At CB, we've got Miller and Cornelius who we hope will be everyday starters but that's not guaranteed.  And Vitoria, who much to my chagrin, has played well for Canada.  There are three decent candidates.  Because we generally play with two CBs, we would need another three at that level to match the RB depth just based on the three I just identified above (Laryea, Johnston, B-G).  Henry needs to stay healthy to be considered, as does Kennedy, as does Ferreira (as well as show that he can still play).  Didic is at a level that's too low at this point.

There are a lot more question marks at CB than at RB.  Which gives more of a sense of urgency on the "bring the guy in for a look".

Also, for the record, I haven't been clamouring for James to come back.  But I see more benefit at that position than bringing in Cordova at RB.

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My main thoughts are:

1) Good on Cordova for putting in a shift against San Lorenzo.  Hope he keeps it up.

2) While he might be an unknown quantity to us, he's not an unknown quantity to Herdman and co.  So if he gets overlooked in June, I will not be surprised.

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