zen Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 22 hours ago, Bison44 said: First chance for Telfer to score!!! WOO HOOOO!!!! Dream start!!! I've played U21 OSL with Ryan Telfer. He scored 24 goals for us that season. He's got a nose for goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Dub Narcotic said: This is totally untrue. With the advent of the USL team Toronto is paying far more Canadians than ever to play professional soccer. There's going to be a decrease this year in academy kids playing up at TFC2 but that wasn't a particular helpful situation anyway. It's not wrong. TFC is going to have a record low for minutes played by Canadians this year. TFC 2 will probably have half or less minutes for Canadians this year compared to last year. For years they were the flag bearer of Canadians for MLS and this year will they be 3rd or 4th? Look at the moves they've made and tell me they aren't doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCM Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I am in two-minds over this issue. On the one hand I want to see young Canadians get a chance and secure minutes. I loved seeing all of the young Canadian getting minutes (on Sandor's list). On the other hand, I am not sure much can be gained by playing a team full of those not ready - amateurs really - in a competitive men's league (see FC Montreal). Not much is gained when half the team is way out of their depth, and the team not competitive. It can become farcical really quickly. A healthy blend of veterans and introduction of academy kids and prospects is probably a better option for the long term. Canadian minutes will suffer, but in the end there we may see the emergence of more viable Canadian pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Better to do what's best for the development of a smaller number that have a genuine shot at making it than overemphasizing the Canadian content angle to the extent that players with absolutely no hope of ever having a pro career are being played just for the sake of it. Agree that adding a few experienced players should help on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 8 hours ago, baulderdash77 said: It's not wrong. TFC is going to have a record low for minutes played by Canadians this year. TFC 2 will probably have half or less minutes for Canadians this year compared to last year. For years they were the flag bearer of Canadians for MLS and this year will they be 3rd or 4th? Look at the moves they've made and tell me they aren't doing this? You've changed your argument from 'TFC is going to play the least Canadians in its history' to 'they are going to play the least Canadians in the last three years', so, yes, you were wrong in your original post. TFC2's role is not to give minutes to Canadians just to get their feet wet at a lower level (that is role of TFC3 in L10) but to get top pro prospects for the club ready to contribute at a MLS level. That means fighting for their place, playing in a competitive environment and being on a team that can actually hold its own at the level they are playing at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Not to be too pedantic here but first I said they have been decreasing their level of support for Canadians. Which you disagreed with. Then I said that TFC will play the least amount of Canadians minutes this year ever and TFC2 half or less minutes compared to last year. I never said 3 years. Then you accused me of changing my argument. I'd say 2 statements were pretty consistent. I don't want to argue and be combative with you but it's pretty clear that TFC is lowering the amount of Canadian PT (support) structurally this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Also @Dub Narcotic why do you say argument. I'm not arguing with you unless you're willing to say that TFC is playing more Canadians or you feel that you have to come to TFC's defense for some reason. Do you think that TFC has raised its CanCon this year compared to last year? Or do you think they are going to play Canadians more this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 3 hours ago, baulderdash77 said: Not to be too pedantic here but first I said they have been decreasing their level of support for Canadians. Which you disagreed with. Then I said that TFC will play the least amount of Canadians minutes this year ever and TFC2 half or less minutes compared to last year. I never said 3 years. Then you accused me of changing my argument. I'd say 2 statements were pretty consistent. I don't want to argue and be combative with you but it's pretty clear that TFC is lowering the amount of Canadian PT (support) structurally this year. Here is your quote, captured for posterity so you don't change it: """ We are definitely seeing a huge decrease in support at TFC over the past several years for Canadians. The Americanization of TFC has been very alarming. """ We have not seen a 'huge decrease in support over the past several years for Canadians'. Between the MLS and USL team they are paying and playing more Canadians to pay and coach pro soccer the last couple of years then they ever have at any time in their history. There is not only not a huge decrease, there is not a decrease at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Last year TFC had 9 Canadians and played them 205.7 minutes a game. This year they have 7 Canadians and play them 101.7 minutes a game. Your right there was no drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 TFC2 averaged 606.7 minutes last year with 16 Canadians in the roster (plus they cycled another 14 Canadians through). This year (small sample size, only 1 game) they played 267 minutes with 10 Canadians on the roster (I think we can expect a lot of Canadians cycling through the academy, although the only call up so far is Swiss). Your right there's no drop off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 sev·er·al ˈsev(ə)rəl/Submit determiner & pronoun 1.more than two but not many. "the author of several books" synonyms: some, a number of, a few; More *** How to Use You're and Your Mistaking "you're" for "your" - or vice versa - is a common writing error most people have made at least once. This wikiHow will show you how to use "you're" and "your" correctly. 10 Second Summary 1. "You're" is short for "you are." 2. Use "you're" when describing someone: You're beautiful. 3. "Your" shows possession. 4. Use "your" when showing possession: Your dog is cool. *** A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Are we done being rude to each other in this topic now, or are we still gonna go at it for a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I'm done. Facts are facts and it's a waste of time to continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said: I'm done. Facts are facts and it's a waste of time to continue We'll always have the memories! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 4 hours ago, baulderdash77 said: Last year TFC had 9 Canadians and played them 205.7 minutes a game. This year they have 7 Canadians and play them 101.7 minutes a game. Your right there was no drop. Hang on, you are comparing the end of the season last year with the just barely begun season this year, which presents a number of problems. TFC's senior team had 9 Canadians on the roster at the end of the year: Ricketts, Johnson, Osorio, Babouli, Hamilton, Chapman, Morgan, Roberts, Manella At the start of the season (ie. the equivalent time to this year), this was only 8 as they didn't sign Ricketts until mid-way through the year. The trouble with comparing this to this year is that we also don't know who they will sign mid-year, although they have already hinted about signing one other Canuck to the first team from their TFC II squad. Roberts & Manella never played a minute last year for the senior team, but let's leave that aside for the moment as that could also happen to some of the players on the fringe of the roster this year for all we know. TFC's senior team right now has 8 Canadians (not 7 as you claim) on it: Ricketts, Osorio, Babouli, Hamilton, Chapman, Morgan, Edwards, Camargo If they sign Liam Fraser to the 1st team sometime during the year, as Vanney has suggested will happen, then we're back on par with 9 Canucks. Its also conceivable that some could get traded or released, but I'm not seeing an "alarming" decrease in the number of Canadians on the first team, year over year. As for minutes played, way too early for the jury on that one - the spate of injuries & international call-ups that allowed Chapman, Babouli, Hamilton etc. to get a lot of minutes may not happen this year, which may still not be a sign that TFC is supporting Canadian players, it may be a sign of different circumstances. Note as well that last year Hamilton & Babouli's minutes got cut drastically once they signed another Canadian in Ricketts (as well as Altidore returning from injury). As for the TFC II minutes, there does seem to be a shift to signing older players (some of whom may be career minor-leaguers like Pais), but the intention there seems to be to help with a more competitive environment so that it's not a team of just Canadian teenagers going up against teams that have Joe Cole, Omar Bravo and Shaun Wright-Phillips on them (which wasn't the case in the USL a couple of years ago), thus helping out the Canadian prospects with their development. When I say "older" I'm not referring to 36/37 year olds that we see on Phoenix Rising but players in their early-mid 20's - and there are bound to be fewer of those vs. Americans (although they did sign a Canadian 23 year old in Telfer). Also until we see what happens when the TFC II players who were in Italy come back, its way too early to use the first game for any sort of conclusion as to how the season will play out. I'd be surprised if the likes of Hundaal, Uccello and Fraser are now nailed to the bench going forward (particularly since the likes of Delgado, Chapman and Endoh won't usually be taking their spots in midfield). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic94 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I still don't think we have that many quality Canadian USL starters, there are more spots open, and Canadians now have more places to play but it's not like we've got 100 USL caliber players, quite frankly we might only actually have 20... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Chapman gets a USL team of the week bench spot for week #1, Hopefully he spends more time with the big club than TFC2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Oakey Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 23 hours ago, Dominic94 said: I still don't think we have that many quality Canadian USL starters, there are more spots open, and Canadians now have more places to play but it's not like we've got 100 USL caliber players, quite frankly we might only actually have 20... Last year over 100 Canadians played in the USL. Even with a 22 man roster for each of the MLS clubs you have to agree there is about 40 USL calibre players and that isn't even going out to some of the players on international teams that could easily play in the USL. I think of Bryce Alderson who really would do fine playing the USL, but because of the wage structure and the general attitude taken by the MLS clubs to their USL rosters tried his hand in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic94 Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 2 hours ago, Levi Oakey said: Last year over 100 Canadians played in the USL. Even with a 22 man roster for each of the MLS clubs you have to agree there is about 40 USL calibre players and that isn't even going out to some of the players on international teams that could easily play in the USL. I think of Bryce Alderson who really would do fine playing the USL, but because of the wage structure and the general attitude taken by the MLS clubs to their USL rosters tried his hand in Germany. Were they starters ? and I'm glad our pool is deeper that I thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Robin Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 March 28, 2017 USL Toronto FC II--TFC II Season Seat Holder Ticket Pick-Up Event (by Rocket Robin) details and pictures at: http://www.rocketrobinsoccerintoronto.com/reports17/17tfc241.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Cockney Rip Off Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 TFC II has signed more non Canadians. http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2017/04/03/toronto-fc-ii-sign-aikim-andrews It was nice that these matches were all streamed and I could watch young Canadians play but now there are hardly any Canadians getting minutes. Shaan Hundal looked great last year and he is nowhere to be found. Lots of mid 20 something yanks doesn't appeal to me. #canexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Really not liking the way TFC II is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_M Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Wow, signing players from TT while they could very well give those spots to Canadians. Duwayne Ewart and Dominic Samuel played in usl last year and are out of contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 And then they still lose 4-0 But clearly playing Canadians is why they lose, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shermanator Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 It's unfortunate that it appears that the CSA sanctioning requirement for USL teams of 540 minutes per Canadians average is no longer around. It's a sad indictment of our development system that in addition to Canadians not being considered good enough for MLS clubs, now young Canadians don't appear to be good enough for the USL reserve clubs either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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