Jump to content
SoccerJedi

Marcelo Flores called 'Canadian prodigy'

Recommended Posts

On 3/3/2019 at 6:45 AM, dyslexic nam said:

I don't think people are blindly commenting because he is in the Arsenal structure.  As indicated by the thread title, some soccer people view this kid as a special sort of talent (I assume "prodigy" isn't just tagged onto any kid).  Thus the hope that he gets pulled into the Canadian youth system.

@Grizzly Arsenal did not develop him, only getting him this year from my team - Ipswich Town. But Arsenal paid several hundred thousand pounds for the kid; that should tell you something about his potential.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/3/2019 at 5:48 AM, EuropeanScout said:

Marcelo was called into Mexico U17 according to the father on his Facebook. Youngest daughter was called into England camp which would suggest they have a UK passport from the mother 

It appears to be true as his father Ruben has congratulated him on his first appearance for Mexico with the u17s.  Disappointing considering articles from the past few years have stated his desire to play for the Canadian program. 

For those on here suggesting that playing for an Arsenal youth team doesn't necessarily make you a better player than our homegrown academy products.  Well, apparently it is good enough for Mexico (one of the best men's youth programs in the world).  And to those suggesting that its not a big deal that we didn't invite him to camp as long as he receives a call up for the official tournament.  Well, if that was also the case then we likely lost another player to the Mexican youth programs for the next several years.

The only thing we can hope for is that he was invited to this camp and declined but it seems unlikely given the previous statements about representing Canada.  We can hope he makes the switch for our U20 or men's side in the coming years ahead.

 

Does anyone know about Rafael Pinzon.  It seems odd that he is based in Mexico and not invited to the training camp in Mexico, particularly based on his success for Canada with the U15s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Corazon said:

And to those suggesting that its not a big deal that we didn't invite him to camp as long as he receives a call up for the official tournament.  Well, if that was also the case then we likely lost another player to the Mexican youth programs for the next several years.

I assume you are responding to my post. I did NOT suggest it was no big deal that we did not invite him. In fact my post is a response to those assuming that we did not invite him or that he had rejected us when at the time it was completely unknown what the situation was. If he has indeed accepted a call up to Mexico then it's terrible news.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, jpg75 said:

I assume you are responding to my post. I did NOT suggest it was no big deal that we did not invite him. In fact my post is a response to those assuming that we did not invite him or that he had rejected us when at the time it was completely unknown what the situation was. If he has indeed accepted a call up to Mexico then it's terrible news.

It was posted more just in general and in frustration with the situation.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/4/2019 at 12:19 PM, BCM1555362349 said:

@Grizzly Arsenal did not develop him, only getting him this year from my team - Ipswich Town. But Arsenal paid several hundred thousand pounds for the kid; that should tell you something about his potential.

Sorry but that doesnt say anything.

Hundreds of examples of Prem clubs paying fees to poach kids from lower league sides who ultimately amount to nothing

If they paid a fee, this might fall outside of Premier League rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/4/2019 at 8:24 PM, Corazon said:

It appears to be true as his father Ruben has congratulated him on his first appearance for Mexico with the u17s.  Disappointing considering articles from the past few years have stated his desire to play for the Canadian program. 

For those on here suggesting that playing for an Arsenal youth team doesn't necessarily make you a better player than our homegrown academy products.  Well, apparently it is good enough for Mexico (one of the best men's youth programs in the world).  And to those suggesting that its not a big deal that we didn't invite him to camp as long as he receives a call up for the official tournament.  Well, if that was also the case then we likely lost another player to the Mexican youth programs for the next several years.

The only thing we can hope for is that he was invited to this camp and declined but it seems unlikely given the previous statements about representing Canada.  We can hope he makes the switch for our U20 or men's side in the coming years ahead.

 

Does anyone know about Rafael Pinzon.  It seems odd that he is based in Mexico and not invited to the training camp in Mexico, particularly based on his success for Canada with the U15s.

Let him play in the Mexican youth NT, if he doesnt make it, least he has had some serious tutelage  

Edited by Jmhutchinson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jmhutchinson said:

Sorry but that doesnt say anything.

Hundreds of examples of Prem clubs paying fees to poach kids from lower league sides who ultimately amount to nothing

If they paid a fee, this might fall outside of Premier League rules.

It does say something -- it says he has potential, that a top team is willing to pay for. Of course it doesn't say he's going to realize that potential...

So which is it, is a fee outside of Premier League rules or do hundreds pay - bit inconsistent there, aren't you?

Fees are definitely paid - we lost the fantastically names Charlie Brown for £600,000 a year ago and Ben Knight for £1,000,000 just weeks before Flores departed. I quote from the twtd.co.uk story

" The Blues also face losing schoolboy Marcelo Flores to Arsenal with talks between the clubs regarding compensation having been ongoing for some months but with the Canadian youngster, whose father Ruben has been coaching at the academy, ultimately appearing certain to move to the Gunners."

https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-news/34421/evans-slams-academy-compensation-system

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Jmhutchinson said:

Let him play in the Mexican youth NT, if he doesnt make it, least he has had should serious tutelage  

So you (the guy who started the thread looking for Canadian dual nationals to play for other national teams) think we should ignore promising players in our pool while they build stronger ties to other footy nations via their youth programs.

Lol.  I think you are on the wrong site.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/18/2019 at 2:38 PM, dyslexic nam said:

So you (the guy who started the thread looking for Canadian dual nationals to play for other national teams) think we should ignore promising players in our pool while they build stronger ties to other footy nations via their youth programs.

Lol.  I think you are on the wrong site.

Its working well for Canada with kids parked all over Europe benefiting from other nations youth programs (IE Tomori), so why not this guy?

Mexico have one of the best youth programs. The father and/or young Marcelo clearly wants the best. If it makes it with Mexico, good for him, but consider how vast the Mexican player pool is, and those born in the US with Mexican ties

If not, then thats a potential upside for Canada

* or even England, will qualify after another 3 years, could have another Declan Rice scenario 

Edited by Jmhutchinson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/18/2019 at 4:04 AM, BCM1555362349 said:

It does say something -- it says he has potential, that a top team is willing to pay for. Of course it doesn't say he's going to realize that potential...

So which is it, is a fee outside of Premier League rules or do hundreds pay - bit inconsistent there, aren't you?

Fees are definitely paid - we lost the fantastically names Charlie Brown for £600,000 a year ago and Ben Knight for £1,000,000 just weeks before Flores departed. I quote from the twtd.co.uk story

" The Blues also face losing schoolboy Marcelo Flores to Arsenal with talks between the clubs regarding compensation having been ongoing for some months but with the Canadian youngster, whose father Ruben has been coaching at the academy, ultimately appearing certain to move to the Gunners."

https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-news/34421/evans-slams-academy-compensation-system

sorry,

*paid a fee - in relation to the tapping up cases of 2017 with Liverpool and the ongoing Chelsea case. 

What i was getting at was as long as it was all above board. But still my point was that of yes paying a fee could indicate some potential Arsenal see, but realising potential is another case as you corrected me

This is right, many schoolboys do have a fee paid, but the overwhelming majority dont make it past academy level

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Fees paid for any player under 18 in England and Walesbetween academy clubs is governed by the eppp (elite player performance pathway) the amount of compensation is a flat fixed fee determined by tier of academy player is coming from and the length of time they were at that club. So Marcelo going from Ipswich town(cat 2) to Arsenal(cat 1 1) is a fixed fee plus the time served(I think he was at itfc for 2.5 years 

here is a link to the wiki explanation of eppp or go to the game website and search eppp

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Player_Performance_Plan

so really the fee Arsenal for him would have been a fixed fee of £ 62500((25000/year over 12)There should be no other fee outside of that. It’s the whole point of the eppp to stop high priced buys. At least in the UK..

. I think I heard through the grape vine that there was an argument as to when he started playing at what age and for how long for Ipswich town hence the delay.

**edit sorry to add the Ipswich town website is a fan based one  if the fee is set to rise ito £1000000 or £600000 it would be because of add ons for potential first team appearances  not sure were the £600000 came from for Charlie Brown... he left at 16.

3x3000(9-11) +5x25000=125000(12-16)= £134000 total fee  

they are also entitled to training compensation should the player be sold on  from Chelsea  

http://www.thefa.com/~/media/C2FB1444624F4367AA477A72D94B50BF.ashx

Go to section 277-282 

 

 

 

Edited by spitfire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, spitfire said:

Fees paid for any player under 18 in England and Walesbetween academy clubs is governed by the eppp (elite player performance pathway) the amount of compensation is a flat fixed fee determined by tier of academy player is coming from and the length of time they were at that club. So Marcelo going from Ipswich town(cat 2) to Arsenal(cat 1 1) is a fixed fee plus the time served(I think he was at itfc for 2.5 years 

here is a link to the wiki explanation of eppp or go to the game website and search eppp

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Player_Performance_Plan

so really the fee Arsenal for him would have been a fixed fee of £ 62500((25000/year over 12)There should be no other fee outside of that. It’s the whole point of the eppp to stop high priced buys. At least in the UK..

. I think I heard through the grape vine that there was an argument as to when he started playing at what age and for how long for Ipswich town hence the delay.

**edit sorry to add the Ipswich town website is a fan based one  if the fee is set to rise ito £1000000 or £600000 it would be because of add ons for potential first team appearances  not sure were the £600000 came from for Charlie Brown... he left at 16.

3x3000(9-11) +5x25000=125000(12-16)= £134000 total fee  

they are also entitled to training compensation should the player be sold on  from Chelsea  

http://www.thefa.com/~/media/C2FB1444624F4367AA477A72D94B50BF.ashx

Go to section 277-282 

 

 

 

Hmmm. I trust you, but even transfer market says GBP734,000 for Ben Knight, who's 16. I can't imagine they always count the add ons.

To also be clear, the guy who runs twtd is a legit journalists with access to players, so it's not the typical "fan" site. There are often interviews with player and management posted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, spitfire said:

Fees paid for any player under 18 in England and Walesbetween academy clubs is governed by the eppp (elite player performance pathway) the amount of compensation is a flat fixed fee determined by tier of academy player is coming from and the length of time they were at that club. So Marcelo going from Ipswich town(cat 2) to Arsenal(cat 1 1) is a fixed fee plus the time served(I think he was at itfc for 2.5 years 

here is a link to the wiki explanation of eppp or go to the game website and search eppp

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Player_Performance_Plan

so really the fee Arsenal for him would have been a fixed fee of £ 62500((25000/year over 12)There should be no other fee outside of that. It’s the whole point of the eppp to stop high priced buys. At least in the UK..

. I think I heard through the grape vine that there was an argument as to when he started playing at what age and for how long for Ipswich town hence the delay.

**edit sorry to add the Ipswich town website is a fan based one  if the fee is set to rise ito £1000000 or £600000 it would be because of add ons for potential first team appearances  not sure were the £600000 came from for Charlie Brown... he left at 16.

3x3000(9-11) +5x25000=125000(12-16)= £134000 total fee  

they are also entitled to training compensation should the player be sold on  from Chelsea  

http://www.thefa.com/~/media/C2FB1444624F4367AA477A72D94B50BF.ashx

Go to section 277-282 

 

 

 

Funnily, this popped up today. ITFC and Arsenal agreed compensation.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-news/35706/flores-compensation-agreed-with-arsenal

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the most recent and updated article on his international future - Translated version

https://us.as.com/us/2019/03/20/futbol/1553120776_256601.html (Español) 

Flores, the Pearl of Arsenal that 3 countries are fighting for 

"With just 15 years, the player of Arsenal, has been called with the Mexican national team under 16, but Canada and England also bid to steal the youth."

"The young midfielder can boast that at his young age, three countries fight over his services.

Marcelo was born on October 1, 2003 in Canada, but he is from a Mexican father and mother of English descent, since he was a child they moved to England, so he has three nationalities.

England, Canada and Mexico, bid to become the young player, but Mexico has won at the moment the game to the other two countries to summon it to the next concentration of the U-16 team in the CAR.

His father, Rubén Flores played in Mexico for teams like Cruz Azul and Atlante, while his mother played women's soccer in Canada, Marcelo has two sisters, who are also players, Silvana, 17 years old and who was already runner-up in the world with the sub -17 from Mexico.

Tatiana is her other sister, she is 13 years old and currently represents England, but her father does not rule out the possibility of her playing for Mexico. Like Marcelo, his two sisters own the three nationalities.

Arsenal to the Mexican
Just a week ago, the arrival of Marcelo Flores to Arsenal became official, after spending several months training with the team, the young Mexican arrived from the Ipswich Town Academy.

"Ipswich Town made a camp and one of the coaches invited him when he was 9 or 10 years old. When we arrived here we went to visit the team and they said yes and started training at the academy for two years, it went very well and this year Arsenal saw it and bought it at Ipswich Town, "said his father, Rubén Flores.

But before the arrival of Marcelo, his sisters were already playing in the women's categories, Silvana in the sub-17 and Tatiana with the sub-14 of the gunner box."

Below is a photo from his presentation ⬇️

Note: Although being a year younger, as a 2003 he was eligible to take part in the U17 CONCACAF championship but didn't receive a call up from neither Mexico or Canada. Quite strange

At just 15, His next official tourney will be the 2021  Since that's the right cycle for him (2004' born on and after) wished he played up but hasn't ever played up. Good for his development to wait 2 more years 

This call up for Mexico to invitational tournament may little or mean nothing at all

England's participation at the U17 Euro championship is happening simultaneously in May, and the next one is in 2020.

This is just the beginning of his tracking process, he needs to burn stages, once he starts playing U18 Premier League then it's serious. Luckily for him in terms of pressure he doesn't have to decide what NT he wants to represent fully just yet 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

October 4 - Arsenal U16 5 Leyton Orient U16 0

"Khayon Edwards scored four of the five goals, whilst Marcelo Flores assisted all five. Omari Hutchinson scored the fifth goal."

https://onefootball.com/en/news/marcelo-flores-and-khayon-edwards-star-in-5-0-win-for-arsenal-u16s-against-leyton-orient-en-27501052?variable=20191007

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...